RBE DSG1 - The Uncanny X-Men

IT 1000BC: Whip 20 shields progress at Antioch, then swap to library. Some other towns in need of their first cultural building end up on library, as does Silktown. Wonder why Persepolis is running six food and lower shields, correct the situation.

975BC: Tyre founded on left orange dot, starts library.

950BC: Gordium trains worker, starts library. Arbela builds temple, starts library.

925BC: Pasargadae trains settler, starts another. Settler heading south to found on the horse tile. Tarsus builds granary, starts settler. Currency has been discovered. I'm waiting for it to make the rounds.

900BC: Whip Susa, progress from 20 to 40, back to granary, due in ten turns. (I'll delay growth a turn to make sure we grow after the granary completes).

875BC: Iro's settle Gawauga. Bleh. It's in range to pressure our VITAL iron/horse city. We're going to have to spend to make sure our city dominates in the culture war. At least we have a significant head start.

850BC: Persepolis builds granary, starts settler. Antioch builds library, starts worker. Bactra trains worker, starts library. All now have construction except for Japan. All have currency except Japan and Aztecs. I buy currency from Joanie for ~380g, then trade that, rest of our cash and 5gpt to Aztecs for construction. We have entered middle ages, get Monotheism as our free tech. Babs also being scientific have it already, so it's only worth 3rd price at the moment. I sell currency to Japan for their treasury (~120g) plus RoP. I sell Monotheism to France for all their money (~570g, counting what we traded for currency) and also I think I asked for RoP too. No one else has more than ~120g, and I doubt that's enough under the new patch for the AI's to broker just yet, so I gamble and sit on the tech for now. No more deals, even though there's about 350g total on the table between about four civs.

Change anything? Nope. We're still training settlers, building granaries and temples and libraries. Start a cathedral now??? Don't make me giggle. :)

825BC: Sardis founded on horses, starts worker. Romans discover Monarchy and instantly revolt, which drops them to Cautious. This is how it will be until we also revolt to improve our govt.

800BC: I decided to disband that warrior out in the far east. No short or medium term chance to bring him home, and he'll cost 1gpt to maintain after we swap to Republic. I tried to run some intereference on an Iro settler pair but they were not impressed.

775BC: Persepolis trains settler, starts another.

750BC: Pasargadae and Tarsus train settlers, start more. These are heading toward the two new purple dots on the maps below. Settler from Persepolis moves into position on the orange dot just above the capital and south of Silktown.


NOTES: Tyre is ready to whip its library next turn. It only has one good tile at the moment, and now's the time to grab more 1000 year bonus, not just here, but almost anywhere we can. I would have whipped Silktown but I waited too long, might as well let it finish naturally. It's about to get more shields online. Also, Antioch can be MM'ed next turn, put it on high food and it will still pull in the incense shields when it grows. Pasargadae needs MM action at times, as does Persepolis when the auto-selection after growth messes with the food total. We want 5 per turn, every turn, and crank those settlers every four turns!


DOTMAPS: In the dotmaps below, the north map shows the purple to grab that spice after all. Unescorted settler en route, but we're in a race here. Add troops later. :) IF the French beat us to that area, then red dot is no longer good, as it would be pressured by their superior culture. The orange dots are both dry but coastal. Ships don't play a huge role on Pangaea, but they do sometimes have some use. Carriers in particular, or ships to attack the AI troop ships. Also, don't neglect the orange dot above Susa! We MUST get all that jungle, for coal and rubber odds, and just because it will be GREAT land after it's been cleared and is so close to the capital.

In the south, the settler is heading for purple dot, but it MAY be wiser to beeline right for yellow dot, and leave the next settler to grab the purple location. Light blue would be fishing for oil and saltpeter in the desert, and to form a safe border opposite Chittagong. Orange dot in the south is a fertile, coastal city on fresh water. It can wait a bit, but don't lose it by waiting too long! Keep those settlers churning! Red dots are distant, and probably won't get them all. Dark Blue dot is a loser because we'll never get it in time. If India kindly stopped advancing, though, it would make a good location. :)

Be ESPECIALLY CAREFUL by ignoring this dotmap completely in any border areas if India advances in a way to put pressure on any of these locations. It's going to be a while before we're in a position to stand up to these civs, and we don't need to be getting into trouble by having their strong cultures flip our cities away from us because we've not taken enough care with the locations to retain full control of all 21 tiles in each city. On Deity we do NOT want to get into cultural border conflicts if we can help it. (And if we do, we may have to spend gobs of cash rushing culture improvements to try to stay ahead. Tough going).

Finally, our borders are not matching up well so far. There's a half-city's worth of dead space in several locations, where the AI's are likely to push in and grab space, threating cities of our that are already established. Not good. Not good at all. The white dot above Arbela may have to be settled to secure that city from pressure. The green dots and the white circle at the worker are sites that would retain control of all 21 of their tiles regardless of the strength of enemy culture, and would thus be defensive settlements if we manage to land all the higher priority sites we're hoping to grab.

We probably won't get all or even most of what I've marked, but we're sure to get some if we keep pressing expansion. Might soon need one town on troop production, though, and Persepolis might make a good town for that, if we let it grow large after another settler or two. It's cranking settlers every four turns right now, though, and that's by far our fastest producer. Started running farmer's gambit here on this round, and that's a bit risky, but there's only so much window of opportunity on the land grab phase.


RBE1 - Persia - 750BC


- Sirian
 
rbe1-dot-north-750bc.jpg


I'd draw up stuff in Babylon's direction but I kinda doubt we can grab much more there. Maybe one more east of Silktown if we hurry.

rbe1-dot-south-750bc.jpg



- Sirian
 
(0) 750BC I open up the game file and note the progress we've made. Well, we have expanded very rapidly, but the AI civs have been even faster (not surprisingly). We already have enough cities to form a core and have a good chance at winning, but naturally we're not going to stop there. Now as long as I can juggle 3 separate dot maps and follow all of Sirian's suggestions I should be OK. :D

(1) 730BC Sirian said to whip out the library in Tyre, and who am I to argue that? I do so. Persepolis grows and picks up a forest tile by default (silly computer); it gets placed on the floodplains where it belongs. Some workers appear to be in the middle of nowhere; I understand building roads to future city site, but I don't get this at all. I'm going to rearrange them to tiles that need improving. Samaria founded on orange dot as recommended on the last writeup; it was already there so I didn't have to do anything. It's almost entirely jungle at the moment, but has immense future potential. As for diplomacy, France now also has Monarchy and has revolted to it; they drop to polite if they weren't there already. Seeing as it has been 4 or 5 turns since we got the tech Monotheism, I am really worried about sitting on it any longer for fear of it being discovered by other civs and us getting cut out. So... I trade it to India for 160g, World Map, and a ROP (no fear of them walking through out territory at the moment; their expansion is all south of us) and to the Aztecs for 155g, WM, and a ROP. We could potentially have gotten more value from it by sitting on it longer, but I would rather not gamble too much. And 315g and better relations with other civs is not a bad deal either. Japan and the Iroquois still lack the tech, btw.

(2) 710BC Nothing really important happens. Our settlers out in the field move closer to their designated city sites.

(3) 690BC Settler completes in Persepolis, France begins the Hanging Gardens. Seeing as how the cascade ended when the GL was built, it might actually take them a while to finish it. Hmmm, where to send the settler? I would like to claim the orange dot southwest of Arbela, but that's a culture flip waiting to happen. But that's land very close to the capital and important to get, so I will move it one tile NW and hopefully lock down that border with India.

(4) 670BC No movement on the diplo front. Still managing our cities as best I can and trying to avoid any disastrously bad moves.

(5) 650BC Hamadan, also known as southern purple dot, founded. We are running major, major farmer's gambit here, enough so that I change production in Antioch from worker to warrior. We need at least some cardboard cutouts of defenders because I am way too nervous with empty cities lying all over the place in the south. Nothing moving techwise at the moment; and I should mention that Japan is just sorry (still lacking Construction). We could have done better, even with that terribly bad land of theirs! :)

(6) 630BC Pasargadae finishes settler, starts a warrior because we badly need some more military. It says 3 turns but should take only 2 to build when it pulls in extra shields after growing next turn. This settler is headed to the orange dot on the coast north of the fish; we should be able to get the other orange dot on the coast with the next settler. The red dot on the coast is wishful thinking, I'm afraid. Ergili founded as our half-city of sorts; not in a great spot but it keeps the Indians from putting one of their cities in that spot. It's a flip risk, so hopefully we can rush a library there with the whip or with money after going to republic. It looks like we WILL get those spices in the NW; France has been awful lazy about settling in that area. Tech rate is soooo slow; what an immense difference from 1.21f! It's like playing a whole different game here on Deity, and to be honest, it's a lot more fun.

(7) 610BC Persepolis builds settler, now where to send it? Closest spot to capital with good land is the orange dot on the east coast next to the whales, so I send it over there. Daruish Kabir founded as our "reach" spices city. Well, we ended up getting there after all. :goodjob: The AI civs seem to be not expanding anymore, or at least not very quickly. We still have a lot of space left, and India/France/Babylon are not moving to claim it. Are they worried about going too far over the optimum city number? Odd indeed, but good so long as it lasts.

(8) 590BC Very little of interest; no new cities near us and no new techs discovered/traded.

(9) 570BC This was the turn of irritating AI exploring units. An Indian warrior prevents our warrior from reaching Persepolis and thus forcing a luxury tax of 20% for one turn, while a Roman archer delays the movement of a settler in the east. They had better be gone next turn...

(10) 550BC Ghulaman founded on the coast near the fishes. We are going to have a tremendous base once we clear all this jungle out; by the time 1500AD comes around and we're completely developed the rest of the world had better watch out! Caesar discovered The Republic on this turn so expect to see it go around next turn. We have no need to trade for it, as we'll get it for free in 9 more turns.

OK, our expansion went well this turn and our borders are starting to shape up. We are probably not going to get any more cities in the north except for another on east of Silktown; I suggest sending the next settler from Persepolis (due next turn) there. The setter in the east is going to the orange dot near the whales marked on the first dotmap. In the south there is still plenty of room to expand, so grab what you can because sooner or later India IS going to come after it. We have the western coast locked up pretty good and should be able to grab 3 or 4 more cities on it without too much trouble. We should end up with roughly the same amount of land as France, which is more than enough to develop our cities and go out conquering. Nice work, everyone! :cool:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/RBE1_550BC.zip
 
Another good round from Sulla. Second one in a row, you're wondering what my workers are doing "off in the middle of nowhere", but those have all been expendable enough to be spared from improving core good tiles to expanding the road network. Apparently, we don't place the same value on rapid development of mobility with an Industrial civ. Typical civs are struggling just to keep up enough good tiles, but the Industrials can have the road net all over the place rather quickly and speed both the expansion and the reinforcement of troops. I wanted the road to the south to be mature by now, and it's not doing badly, but it seems to be following the settlers instead of preceding them, which is costing growth curve on the new cities all the way down the line. You say you've deliberately avoided Persia and Egypt for considering them "too easy", but there are possibilities opened by the industrial trait that aren't there for the other civs.

You were right about getting the incense online sooner, but no I didn't overlook it. I'm just more willing to run luxury tax higher for a bit longer in the early stage while having my eye on the long term potential for the future, as now we have some strong tiles going to waste right on top of the capital, but... that was a judgement call and we're doing fine with the way you took it. Just realize that you traded about half a city for getting the incense online probably 20-25 turns sooner than my original dotmap would have achieved. I wouldn't have been running entertainers, though, so it was purely a cash transaction. We had the cash to spare, running min science, so little or nothing was being slowed, just trading some quicker cash influx for a stronger core... or that was what I had in mind. There was both rhyme and reason to my first dotmap, but of course Deity AI's are too slick to let any dotmap plan be fully executed anyway. The wasted tiles on top of our capital weren't wholly your responsibility. The dotmap in the south should have been abandoned, and it wasn't. The dots have to work as a grid. If one of them is changed, the whole thing needs to be reconsidered, so the whole southern dotmap was obsolete after your turn. A better arrangement to fit with what you did could have been achieved. The more we squeeze out of the land, the more margin for error we have in other departments.

Anyway, some solid results this round. One complaint, though: Ergili! [pimp] :smoke:

The only way we can even attempt to win a border battle with India is to spend massive amounts of gold on cathedral, colesseum and university rushbuys, quickly enough to overtake and then stay ahead of a city that needs only 116 shields invested to have temple, library and cathedral, and which has a major jump on 1000year cultural bonus for temple, at least, and could be building its cathedral as we speak. Our cathedral ALONE will take 160 shields. This in a city they might run over with a couple of jumbos.

Must... not... contest... borders...

I guess all the green dots on the last map and talk of defensive settlements on that border went out the window. Very big gamble with high investment costs and miniscule returns. I am -very- concerned about it. If Ergili flips, it's got permanenent pressure over to Tarsus and could threaten our iron supply, too.

Epic Four is no gauge for a cultural battle. I'm trying to remember if you got into one in GOTM7. I did, three times, and lost them all. Two of the three flipped despite heavy garrison. There's just no competing with the AI when they have 40% building discount and a large tech lead to gain access to cultural buildings sooner. We are at tech parity here, so it might be done, but I'm not sure it's worth it.

We have enough land that if one of our border cities leaves the fold, it won't break us, but even just to train ten warriors and park them in there to hold the fort down would cost 10gpt, and that would be about the cheapest solution. My real concern is if that one flips it then puts us into emergency situation at two of our vital, most productive and important cities.

Please make reducing border tensions the TOP priority on choosing half-city border settlements. Otherwise, you are either handing us a bill for about 1200gp worth of building rushbuys in what will not be a secure area, or leaving the site exposed anyway, in which case what was the point?

Why gear up for war when there are still gains to be made through peaceful expansion, and surely more to be made that way in this situation. We could build a whole army, take a couple cities if that, sue for peace, while the rest of the AI's grab all the unclaimed lands. If we pulled a leader and rushed SunTzu, might work out, but we don't have any barracks, iron's not online yet and not in a secure area, and so on and so forth.

If a city flips in this situation, it's gone. We can't go get it back. Against some civs, a border fight might not be a big issue. Unfortunately, the three civs against which it would be a lesser issue are the three on the other side of the continent. ALL FOUR of our closer neighbors are culturally prioritized nations.

That Ergili is next door to our only iron source is the real kicker. We've already got a major problem on our hands at Gawauga.

India and France make for great friends, and also great buffer zones. If we can ally with India down the road, we can let them absorb punishment from the eastern militaristic civs for us. That means not targetting them, though. We could be looking at borders that may not change for two hundred turns, and if we DON'T win and maintain the cultural control of the contested tiles, that's a heck of a lot of flip rolls over time for us to face, only one of which has to fail on us. It is a hard road you have set us on in that city.

Well, the die has been cast. Probably not worth it to abandon the city, so we'll see how it plays out.

We definitely got a fortunate arrangement of start points. Don't count your chickens just yet, though. Still lots of potential for things to go very wrong.


- Sirian
 
The way I see it, there are both advantages and disadvantages to following Sirian in the rotation of a succession game. On the one hand, I know that I'll always be passed a game in perfect running order with no need to do any managing of cities or switching of production. On the other hand, I have to figure out what Sirian was trying to accomplish, and sometimes that can be very complex indeed. :)

I'm not always going to approach things the same way, and of course that's the nature of succession games. When I see a luxury resource sitting out of range on a low-priority dot, my instinct is to go and hook it up sooner rather than later. I certainly wasn't thinking "you traded about half a city for getting the incense online probably 20-25 turns sooner than my original dotmap would have achieved." Almost certainly true, but I can't quite abstract a game to this level and "see" the tradeoffs that directly. That's probably part of the reason why Sirian is so good at strategy games; I notice the tradeoffs AS I'm playing but not BEFORE they happen.

One thing is right though: Erigili IS in a worthless location. I can't remember exactly why I put it there, but the reasoning wasn't good. It should be closer to our cities to be secure from a culture flip; I think I was getting confused from trying to follow all of the different dot maps. I take full responsibility if that one flips. :splat: But Arbela at least should be safe; it has both a temple and library and will hit the 100 and 1000 culture levels much earlier than its neighbors. Add in the 1000-year bonus, and we will have a very high culture city. Weird stuff has happened to me before, but I think that critical city is, in fact, safe so long as we make sure to put a cathedral and other such buildings there as well.

These conversations are what make SGs so much fun, of course. We are in excellent shape here, with plenty of land still available to be grabbed in the south and tech parity with 1500g in the bank, so we have no greater mistakes at the moment than some minorly misplaced cities and questions over worker tasks. If these are the kind of errors we make, then I'm confident the game will be in good hands. :)
 
(0) 550BC Switch Susa over to spearman build instead of having it shrink to size one when it builds a settler.

Okay, if we're having to run an entertainer in Sidon, he might as well be a scientist, and we can turn off the science budget for this one turn (until he starves).

Switch Samaria from library to granary. If we get another city on the coast (which we should), it won't need any culture to get its full 21 tiles.

I think we would like to buy Republic from Ceasar -- nine turns earlier getting out of despotism is a significant bonus -- but he won't sell. 1553g isn't enough?

Sell Monotheism to Iroquois for 125g (their entire treasury). I've no idea how close this was to market rate, but Hiawatha considered it a "fair offer".

Japan doesn't have construction yet, even. And their treasury is only 51g so I hold off on selling to them.

Persepolis finishes settler, Sula finishes spearman, Gordium finishes library.

Our scientist at Sidon starves, as expected.

(1) 530BC Settler out of Persepolis heads south. If we can grab all of that coastal grassland area, I think somewhere down there (Hamadan?) would be a good FP site.

None of the other Civs have been able to afford buying Republic off Rome.

(2) 510BC Why does Susa have one irrigated grassland tile? We can't get any advantage from it until we leave despotism.

(3) 490BC Settler out of Pasargadae heads east into jungles. Aiming for the red-dot promontory which gets the fish, but he won't get there on my turn.

A Roman archer is blocking our settler on the NE coast. Bah.

Japan obviously spent money on something. They now have just 42g in treasury, and still lack construction.

We are amassing huge wads of cash :)

Arbela and Tarsus finish settlers, Bactra finishes library (aided by forest clearing).

(4) 470BC Since Bactra is going to have two-square second-ring overlap with Bordeaux, I put it on temple next.

Settler out of Tarsus heads into desert. Settler from Arbela starts on long journey south. The Iroquois have a settler and escort just outside our culture border at Arbela -- if Hiawatha has decided to build on the coast there, we're already too late to get a defensive settlement in at white dot.

Hmmm. Is this right -- if you have a granary, you don't lose overflow food when your population expands? I never noticed that before, which makes granaries even more useful than I thought :)

Decide to build a library in Persepolis, instead of having it shrink to size four when it finishes its settler. Did I miss some MM I should have been doing?

Indians have Feudalism, and start on Sun Tzu's.

(5) 450BC The Iroquois settler has now moved into our territory.

Zohak founded on the coast of the inland sea.

France now has Republic and Theology. And Rome has Theology. Do you think they traded? :)

We could buy Republic now, but it would cost 1000+ gold, and we're only four turns from researching it ourselves.

(6) 430BC Whip library in Ergili.

India have built New Calcutta on the southern coastal grasslands. Drat.

Hmm. Japan have suddenly acquired Construction, Republic and Monarchy, without ever having had any cash. Did they get a trade route established?

We buy a worker from Babylon for 30g.

India, France and Rome have all traded up to tech parity (Republic, Monarchy, Feudalism and Theology that we don't have).

Babylon wants to trade territory maps. Well, okay.

I pay 10g to renew RoP with Japan, and let the RoP with France expire.

Antioch finishes settler, Sidon finishes warrior, Ergili finishes whipped library.

(7) 410BC France have built Rennes on the coastal site out settler was aiming for. Drat, again. Settler turns around to head for orange dot site on coast SW of Pasagardae.

Hiawatha demands tribute -- territory map and 100g. Piffle.

(8) 390BC We now have a trade route to India through Bengal, if Gandhi ever gets around to connecting it to the rest of his empire.

We research Republic, and call for an immediate revolution. Three turns of anarchy scheduled. Whoo :)

(9) 370BC Istakhr and Jinjan founded in the SE desert.

(10) 350BC Our two southern settlers are in position to found cities next turn. This will have New Calcutta surrounded with minimal overlap (one tile at Istakhr). New Calcutta is actually closer to Indian capital than to ours (despite appearances to the contrary) so I don't think it's worth being aggressive about trying to get a flip.

Our western settler is heading to the coastal orange dot site, but I'm worried about the French galley there. If that unloads a settler, we may have to put a city on a suboptimal inland site just to keep the French out.

We probably don't need all the settlers that are currently in the build queue.

Edit: remove inline screenshot for legibility. Link here.

350BC
 
Did you look to trade Republic immediately after you got it? You can do this: on the popup, choose "What's the big picture", hit F4 for the diplo screen, then immediately enter diplomacy. That lets you trade Republic around before the AIs can - as in, if your getting it would lower the cost enough for them all to buy in, you can jump in first and broker it before any AIs can.
 
Originally posted by T-hawk
Did you look to trade Republic immediately after you got it? You can do this: on the popup, choose "What's the big picture", hit F4 for the diplo screen, then immediately enter diplomacy. That lets you trade Republic around before the AIs can - as in, if your getting it would lower the cost enough for them all to buy in, you can jump in first and broker it before any AIs can.

None of the Civs which are behind us in tech have any cash.
 
Susa had an irrigated grassland tile because we ARE leaving despotism, and have already done so by the end of your turn. It was making settlers and never going to miss that surplus tile. I wish there were two or three such tiles waiting for it on the other side of Republic, to be balanced by mined hill tiles at larger size, but I only had time to irrigate one such tile on my turn. :)

The starvation at Sidon is :smoke: on somebody's part who pulled the unit out of there. (Ahem, not mentioning names). Not a backbreaker as there's an irrigated tile there, but the extra population could have been whipped to get a temple instead of a library, or the unit could have been replaced or simply not sent. (It's not as if Joanie is going to go postal on us if we leave a front line city empty for a few turns. The back line city was left empty and it starved).

I spotted that before your turn, Jaffa (in the screenshot), but not much to be done at that point. And I reserved my criticism for a larger issue: Ergili.

Your results in the south look really good. Things have gone at least as good down there as I expected, although with India reaching PAST arable land to New Calcutta, I expect some oil or something to show up in its radius. (Or maybe it was just the cows that attracted them, but I'll stick with my "there's a resource there" bet).

We're humming along. And a swap to new government, prime time to rush some libraries or a key courthouse or two. Make sure the cash is spread around a bit, and don't drain the treasury completely dry. We're going to have a painful run on tech buys (or research) even at last civ prices, and with Japan lagging with their poor lands, we may not GET last civ prices. Ouchie.


- Sirian
 
Procedural Note: in my posts and Sulla's, you see that wide-screen maps and screenshots are added in a second post. Cropped shots are OK, but those really big jobbers make for difficult report reading, scrolling left and right for each line. This is something I try to avoid, generally, by using only small shots within a report and appending any wide ones later.

We probably don't need to report maps after each turn, as much as observers may want to see what's happening. I know I went heavy with the screens in the first round, but so much happened so quickly, I wanted to document the vital points. Too much epic play for me lately: not enough per-turn notes, too many pictures. :lol: I'll get back into a normal SG rhythm here shortly, though. I hope. :)


- Sirian
 
(pre-turn) 350BC: hmm...the Japanese, Babylonians and Indians have connected harbors. That means that us getting a harbor is the easiest way to open up some trade routes. Everything seems in good order to me, so we continue.

(1) 330BC: The settler on the west coast settles on the orange dot he stands on, founding the city of Borazjan. Settler on north-west coast is one square away from orange dot south-west of Pasagardae. The founding of New Calcutta causes reconsideration of where the city down there should go. I decide upon a defensive site, that will have no overlap, and still be able to get the cattle. Our RoP with India expires; we are close to them, so I decide not to extend it. RoP with the Aztecs also expires, I extend, for The Republic, with them giving us 80 gold. I also sell The Republic to the Iroquois for 140 gold. The French galley in the west is sailing down the coast alot, if they want one, they can almost certainly get a settlement in down there.

(2) 310BC: The Republic of Persia is formed after a short time of anarchy. Science is set to 0%, since the city of Jinjan, in the middle of the desert, gains nothing by having a citizen working on the desert for a single shield which is lost to corruption, and so can have a scientist instead. By settling two entertainers which matter little, we can set luxuries to 10%; thus we have a surplus of 81 gold per turn. We could research it in 16 turns at +2 gpt though.

(3) 290BC: Persepolis completes what will likely be its last settler for the moment. I set it to build a marketplace. Pasagardae also builds a settler, and I set it to build a library. I MM Persepolis so it grows to size 6 in just one turn. I rush libraries in Jinjan and Istakhr, for a total of just over 300 gold. They're both on the border with India, and thus need them. I also take the perhaps controversial choice of rushing a harbor for 316 gold in the new city of Borazjan. I think we need to get to be able to trade with the other civs asap. I veto all settler production; I think the expansion phase is just about done.

(4) 270BC: The Iroquois look set to grab the site to our North-East. We settle the city of Dakynas west of New Calcutta, and near the French galley. Ok, now we have a harbor we can trade. Unfortunately, no-one we can trade with has surplus luxuries or gpt to trade us. I do however trade the Indians silks, 700 gold, and world map, for Feudalism. Seems we got around 250 gold off for the silks. I have to put luxuries up to 20%. It really is unfortunate that no-one has any luxuries to trade us. We still don't have our source of iron hooked up, I set about looking to rectify this.

(5) 250BC: We can now see three sets of French settlers looking to go through our territory. I'm not sure exactly where they're going. Lost sight of the French galley in the south-west. hmm...the turn after we sell India silks, they turn out to have hooked up a second supply of furs :-/ They want to trade them a little expensively too (330 gold). The Iroquois have settled on our side of the inland sea.

(6) 230BC: Julius extorts 71 gold and territory map off us. French galley is going back home.

(7) 210BC: Looking to found our final two cities in the south-west. The French now have chivalry. We almost have a land trade route with the Iroquois.

(8) 190BC: City of Bampur founded in the south-west. Settler moved into position for another city in the region. We trade the Japanese a supply of horses for world map, 3 gold pieces and a worker.

(9) 170BC: The city of Turung Tepe is founded in the south-west. I don't plan for any more cities. A trade route is now available with the Iroquois, via India. Unfortunately, they seem to have already traded their surplus wines with India. They will give us a discount on Theology for them, but I decline for the moment. However, we also now have a route with the Romans, and I cut a deal. Gems for Silks, world map, and 4gpt. Lets us cut luxuries to 10%, although we do have to use an entertainer in Persepolis.

(10) 150BC: We have no more surplus silks, need to hook some more up. Sadly, the French do have their own source of silk, so we can't sell to them. A number of our cities are still undefended. We're now making a healthy surplus of 103gpt.

150BC
 
IT 150BC: I spend our treasury. All of it. 410g+ for Cathedral at Arbela. Libraries galore, starting at Dariush Kabir and Zohak, moving on to Hamadan and other border cities, then coastal cities as remaining cash allows. WOOHOO! We be po' folks now! :lol:

Tarsus swapped to settler, due next turn (I want that defensive settlement southeast of Gordium).

Workers! We need more workers. I set up a self-sustaining worker training camp at Antioch, then set some of the low shield high food southern cities on workers also.

Courthouses! We need courthouses in all second ring cities, and will need them in third ring cities, too. Silktown swap to courthouse, same at Sidon.

130BC: We can afford another library! (Cha-ching, says the construction industry). Tarsus returns to troop building. Pasargadae alternating between worker and warrior now, with ten food and ten shields. Arbela starts courthouse. Bactra to peel a worker, then start courthouse. Library-completed towns start warrior (if troopless) or courthouse.

110BC: We can afford another library! Last of our coastal towns gets its library rushed. Another day, another courthouse ordered.

90BC: Persepolis builds market, starts temple. Susa starts barracks.

70BC: Merv founded in desert, starts library. I start a minor troop shuffle to move Antioch's vet spear to the south front.

50BC: Merv library rushed.

30BC: India scares the heebeejeebies out of me by moving three warriors toward Ergili and Merv, and two ships up along our west coast. Tarsus trains horseman, starts another.

10BC: Japan declares against Rome. (Uh oh. This could be a seven-civ game before too awfully long). Indian units continue to advance on our territory. Vet spear arrives in Merv. Dariush Kabir temple rushed. Pasargadae can no longer alternate warrior/worker as the iron has come online, so it starts a barracks.

10AD: Indian troops muddle around along their border. WHEW! They are in patrol mode now, and definitely not on "I want that city" mode. Were they coming for Merv? I doubt it, but then again it's possible they were, and the arrival of superior troops deterred the attack. I really really doubt that, but... we do need to prioritize some military buildup soon: pikes, immortals, the odd archer or catapult. Persepolis builds temple, starts cathedral. Susa builds barracks, starts Immortals. Ergili swapped to pikeman, Tarsus swapped to archer.

30AD: Two more silks come online. Major trade deal time. Temple rushed at Istakhr, leaving us 57 cash. Silks, Map, 24gpt and 54 cash to Iro's for Theology. As Japan lacks Chivalry, I go two for one. Silks, RoP, 34gpt to Babs for Chivalry and two workers. Chiv and 6gpt to Japan for Monarchy. (We'll need this govt later on, for heavy warmaking, so might as well take the opportunity now to grab it nearly for free). Tarsus trains archer, starts pikeman. Oh yeah, and Aztecs ally with Rome vs Japan. (The Sun Also Sets -- my prediction for the future of Japan).

50AD: Worker moving to road last silk at silktown. One more silk south of the city, though if Japan is wiped out, we'll have one spare nobody will ever buy. Heh. Brokered maps and squeezed some blood from the turnip, then upgrade two spears to pike.


Diplomatic front: the AI's are spread out on tech. We want Education next, if possible, to bring our cheap uni's online (and to prioritize them in the core). Even if we aren't running research (and we MIGHT swap to some at some point if we have enough research infrastructure) we still need the cultural strength they will bring. Our culture is now on the climb, and we should get out from under the 2 to 1 penalty, which will help a lot. Investing in culture now buys us lots of benefits later, including fewer flips we lose, more we may win, less trouble with resisters during wartime, and a better diplomatic stance. I spent all our reserves and more than half our income, but as our cities grow, build courthouses and markets, we'll improve. If Education comes available at late-civ prices and we can afford it, spring for it. Other deals should probably wait.

We are SECOND in territory. Amazing. It also means we can get some benefit, financially, from Rights of Passage, but be careful about that. I traded RoP to Babs, and that may come back to bite us later, but I had a good feeling about it at the time.

Persepolis needs to finish its cathedral, then it should be good to go on cranking troops at a high rate: two turns for pike or immortal, maybe even down to one for archers and cata's, and four for knights. Other cities have been carrying the slack while it catches up on infra, now its turn to carry the load while others build up.

I like Hammadan for FP location. It's three rings distance from the capital (doesn't look like it, but it is) and also central enough to have two rings around it in most directions. Problem is, it's a low shield site. What we need to do is rush that courthouse as we can, migrate some workers over there to mine the deserts and irrigate more flood plains, and maybe also rush a temple or marketplace. The city right now is on WLTKD, which is the ONLY reason it's pulling in more than one shield per turn. We have to maintain that. Problem is, we lack the money to do all these things we want. I'll leave it for you guys to work out over the next round. We might choose another location that could get the FP online sooner, but all the southern locations are about in the same boat, while the northern ones don't have much land around to benefit. We could build the FP in the jungle above Persepolis at Tyre and use a leader to rush the palace in the south, later, but that could come a LOT later, if it's post-industrial before we get into any wars (what with this new slower tech pace). In any event, those are the only two locations I like for FP: Tyre, or Hammadan. We should choose soon, and get working on it. At Hammadan, Courthouse must come first (since it can be rushed), to get some of that commerce online for lux taxes, and improve the shield ratio. I'm sure that rushed courthouse + FP would be faster than FP from here.

The iron coming online disrupted warrior projects in the south. Rather than have them build pikes over the next eon, I swapped them to workers, and the troops will have to come from the core. We have Tarsus and Susa on troop building, and Pasargadae about to be. Persepolis can add to that by the end of Sulla's round. Arbela needs a granary still, but after courthouse and that, it might go to troops also. With its cathedral already built, it needs granary, then get to size 12 asap, so do more irrigations. May even have to irrigate over some grass mines.

Herat is going to starve to death. No use letting it do so. Either peel the worker in three turns (DO NOT disband the city, heh) or take up the food and run a taxman until the road connects.

Antioch can and should be left to train workers for the foreseeable future. It wouldn't hurt us to have as many as fifty or sixty. We have a lot of work to do, then a lot of rails to build. Then a lot of pollition to manage. Then a lot of combat engineering to be doing. Most players go with fewer workers for an industrial civ. I don't. I go with just as many, and have the work done that much more quickly. Workers can be added back into cities later, if we truly reach a point where there are more than we can use. Sardis and Gordium should probably be put back on infrastructure soonish (Sardis still needs courthouse, and Gordium needs granary/aqueduct to grow past 6). Tyre and Samaria can continue to train workers while they are small, until enough jungle has been cleared for them to power their way forward.

We have lots of worker production in the south and a DROUGHT of improved tiles at our core cities. The workers should migrate coreward in large numbers, not outward, as we lack for fully improved tiles at ALL our major cities now. We also have to get at least some lines of irrigation through the jungles, including down to Herat. Don't go nuts, but the only way to manage larger cities and come out about as well as the dense build is to have a mix of food and shields and swap between them as the priorities shift.

Finally, one last dotmap for your viewing pleasure. :) The contortions with AI units blocking our movement led Zohak off the zoning plans. That's fine, as it leaves just enough room to warrant a fishing village at the purple dot: ten unclaimed tiles (counting the dot itself) to grab. If it sneaks a couple units of overlap with Zohak, we'll have two solid size 12+ cities over there. No sense hurrying a settler out of Susa, which is stuck on low food at the moment (for, heh, lack of irrigations ready and waiting for it once we got to Republic). Train settler at Tyre or Tarsus or some other lower priority city and grab the spot as the opportunity comes along.


Busy round for me. Sorry for using up all the treasury and going into heavy deficit spending, but I did turn around our culture, secure the lead in border conflicts, and increase the work force. Would be nice if we can sell those spices to Joanie once they are hooked up, to have a trade agreement with her. We have deals with almost everyone else now, and can have a deal with everybody once the rest of the silks are in production.


- Sirian
 
Our future fishing village (and a look at our nation):

rbe1-50ad.jpg


RBE1 Persia - 50AD


- Sirian


PS: "Oh One More Thing" (TM)

New Calcutta: at the moment it has no means of connecting to the rest of the Indian empire. I propose that we keep it that way for the time being. Don't build roads toward it that it could connect to. I half-expect India to send a worker into OUR territory to connect that road at some point, but we'll see. Without access to lux and resources, that isolated Indian city cannot grow as large, has to run more entertainers so it builds more slowly, may riot at some point, etc etc. Especially while it has not expanded its borders yet, keep the road disconnected. We may have an outside chance of flipping the city. At least it suffers some, which helps us.
 
Wow - is it just me or did we grab MORE land than the Deity AI civs? :eek: We had some luck with them being somewhat far away from us, but that is a monumental feat nonetheless. Cash is there to be used, and I don't have a problem with Sirian's massive deficit spending at all if it locks down out borders culturally and greatly reduces the chance of flips. With our cheap libaries/universities, I wouldn't be surprised if we can manage even culture with some of the other civs eventually (or at least a civ like the Romans). Just from the picture though I can see that we need a ton of workers. Like... an absolute TON of workers. My overriding goal for this next turn will be to build as many as possible, because we need them everywhere. The game's looking good at this point guys, real good. :goodjob:
 
(0) 50AD I spend a few minutes looking over the game to familiarize myself with it. Tokugawa is about to get himself killed imminently by the Romans - not a good thing at all. Hopefully I can get the spices in the NW hooked up and traded away sometime during my turn. Workers in production almost everywhere are a good thing. Our desert towns are badly hurting for worked tiles at the moment. I like the idea of Hamadan as the FP city, so I micromanage it a bit to get 3 shields instead of 2 (no slowing of growth or anything, just taking citizens off of entertainer status ans putting them to work). Or wait - that will end WLTKD, won't it? They go back. When I get the money, I'll rush the courthouse there. At the moment I see no need for Immortals (since they're unupgradable) and we are in no position to fight anyone. But I'll build one so they can be our "feared" unit. Upgradable pikes sound like a good thing to build to me.

(1) 70AD A ton of workers complete in various cities. The uncorrupted ones get switched to other things while our outlying cities mostly get set to build another worker. Not much happening at this time; I make a few extra gold (10ish) by trading our world map around. At this point, it's a significant boost in income.

(2) 90AD Between turns, Tokugawa comes asking for an alliance against the Aztecs. I sell him our world map for 1g instead. The only thing completed this turn is our first immortal in Susa; production switched to pike there, the immortal goes to our iron city, Arbela. Most of these turns consist of moving workers as much as possible. I have routed several of them to Hamadan to start mining deserts; with luck I'll have the FP started by the end of my turn. I get 5g and a world map from Japan to renew our ROP; not much but it doesn't hurt. Printing Press was discovered this turn and brokered around, but it is way too expensive to buy at the moment. Sorry, but we just can't afford any deals at the moment. If we could get Printing Press we could potentially trade for Education... but that's just too much of our income. We get a silks luxury back in 2 turns, so I'll see if there are any deals we can work there.

(3) 110AD A lot happens between turns. We built a couple of workers and one or two city improvements; I switch production as I see fit. We get not one, but two palace expansions (what did we do that was so good?) France completes the Sistine Chapel, and India takes Sun Tzu's in the cascade. Everyone else to Leo's. We are starting to fall behind in tech at the moment; nothing we can do about that though. We'll catch up in the Industrial Age. Diplomatically, the only thing of interest is buying a worker from Bablyon (29g). We have an extra silk, but the only one who can buy it at the moment is Japan, and their best offer is WM + 6g. Uhhh, no. Our deal with India for silk ends next turn, so maybe we will be able to get something for it.

(4) 130AD Everyone who wasn't on Leo's before cascades to it now, and shockingly France completes it too! Cascade should now be broken yet again, for all the good that does us. I get 19g from the Aztecs to renew our ROP, which almost pays for the Bablyonian worker I bought last turn. Not bad, not bad. I sell Gandhi our silks for the maximum possible price (down to a single gold piece): 16gpt + 35g. This is almost half again our current income, so I consider it well worth it. I couldn't get any techs at a reasonable price except for Printing Press, which is essentially useless to us anyway in this game (democracy? no way!)

(5) 150AD For once, nothing big happens between turns. I finally have enough money to rush the courthouse at Hamadan and do so; now maybe we can get a decent amount of shields there. I can't do anything diplomatically except sell our world maps to everyone, which I do each turn. Good for an extra 5 or 6 gold every turn, which adds up over time.

(6) 170AD Rome signs a military alliance with Bablyon against Japan; Tokugawa is almost certainly going to be killed now as all the AI civs jump on him. And France is going to sneak attack someone soon; they have a bunch of warriors running around. Definitely not us, fortunately; my guess is the Iroquois. Hamadan is up to 4 shields/turn now while still maintaining WLTKD; I will rush a marketplace there as soon as I can and then start the FP. Nothing accomplished diplomatically.

(7) 190AD We get another palace expansion this turn; must be due to our culture continuing to grow. If the Aztecs ever get a trade route hooked up, we could trade for their wines with our silks (what is Monty doing? where are his workers?) Against all possible odds, the Japanese have managed to hold onto all their cities so far, including Matsuyama, completely surrounded on all sides by Roman territory. Amazing how inept the AI is at warfare.

(8) 210AD Wow, busy stuff between turns. Bablyon recruits France into the war against Japan (another nail in their coffin), then we get this little beauty:

RBE1_franceattack.jpg


Yeah, I called it. France goes to war against Iroquois - hooray! Waste that production on useless wars. The battleground will probably take place in our territory, so we should get to see some fun stuff. And we can somewhat affect the outcome by giving ROPs to the side we want to win. But in any case, a busy turn! Our deal with Japan for horses runs out; even when we put horses and silks on the table, Tokugawa wants 200+ gold and 30gpt for Education. With no deal available to get a second tech for Education, that's not worth it. Instead, since I can actually get a somewhat decent price for silks from Japan, I sell those to him for 25g and 7gpt. It's about the best we can hope to get from a small civ like them. I should also mention that the Japanese have lost Satsuma to the Romans; it's their first one to fall.

(9) 230AD We renegotiate with Rome for our gems deal; whereas before we were paying 4gpt, now we are paying 5gpt and got 13g back in hard cash. Not much of a difference there. I rush the marketplace in Hamadan, FP will start there next turn. We are now officially broke with only 4g in the bank, but it's worth it to get a FP out 10 turns faster.

(10) 250AD FP started in Hamadan, 29 turns to complete at 7 shields/turn. We may need to bump up the luxury rate to keep that city happy, so be aware. I produced the settler for our final fishing town this turn from Silktown (because it was stuck at 0 growth at size 6, and not going to go up any time soon). We will get out from under our gpt payment in another 10 turns, and hopefully Jaffa can work some 2 for 1 tech deals on his turn. I didn't want to cut into our income any more while we were still paying so much, but I spent rather lavishly on our FP city on this turn. Maybe not the wisest move, but I think we can agree on its importance. If the Aztecs ever hook up their cities to the trade network, get wines from them ASAP. And get ready to watch some battles between France and the Iroquois, because their forces are definitely going to meet in our territory soon.

RBE1 250AD
 
7spt! :goodjob: If we can have that FP online by the end of my next turn, wow. That beats my best hopes by almost a third. Nice work, and glad you acted decisively. At 7spt, it's almost certainly better than building in Tyre and having to wait for extra leaders to move the palace. Now get some troops down there!


Four arguments in favor of more immortals:

1) Screw upgradability. Same problem Lee has had with his hatred of nonvet units. Not that we should make every new troop an immortal -- no way -- but there will be PLENTY of backline and flip suppression and resister suppression duties to go around, all of which require any old warm body. Thus, we will have urgent uses for all the immortals we build.

2) We have a lot of territory. That puts us higher on the food chain and in more danger of being attacked than the average deity game. We don't want to be behind the eight ball when someone pulls a France-Iro on us. Immortals are cheap longbows with better defense, and I like longbows, so I like immortals even more. (Anybody remember RBD SG7 when Charis DISBANDED my longbow after I paid cash to upgrade to it??? :lol: Now that was a Hallmark moment).

3) In a war scenerio, you can do only so much upgrading. At the point at which factory+power comes online (especially if we pull Hoover, which in this game we have a very good chance to do), shields become cheaper than commerce, and the upgrades come to a halt. Leo's we do not have. Upgrading is THE way to go for a certain amount of units, but that's just to tide us over until the high production kicks in. On Deity, we need every penny to stay in the tech race, so it's a delicate balancing act between using cash to catch up in military prowess, and SAVING cash to keep up in tech, which you need to catch up in military prowess.

4) As our UU, they are our ticket to a golden age, and uh, what if the first one dies? We going to wait a few turns to train more? :)


Please build us more than one token Immortal. :)

Thanks.


- Sirian
 
one question about the FP: since you're playing a Domination game, I assume you'll be going to war (or...) - shouldn't you wait to build the FP somewhere in AI territory so you can get a greater benefit (Hamadan seems pretty close to Persepolis for an FP, but thats just due to the cramped space).

Obviously I am wrong :lol: since you guys know what you're doing. May I ask, why (given the aforementioned argument)?
 
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