RBMoo SG1 - Oh the Humanity - Team C

Got it.

Meldor, we weren't pressuring you. But it is kind of amusing..

You take it.
No you take it.
No, please be my guest you take it.
Ok, if you insist...

Wait a second, wasn't it my turn?
But you just gave it to me.
BUT IT'S MY TURN!!1!1111 Give IT TO ME!!1!!111

Ok, enough babbling...
 
Lol, here you go:

Economy: Economy looked to be doing ok without my help so I didn't touch anything here.

Intelligence: Queued up a bunch more spies, all scientific. Inserted all scientifc spies into the VZ-573-KYUP territory. Stole a few techs and caused some havoc.

Diplomacy: Ok, looking over the gameplan, I saw that the Eritriaa (bugs) were number two on the power graph and were in the senate. The easiest way to win this puppy would probably be via the vote. But to do that, we need to get on the Senate. So I began to increase relations with these bugs as much as possible. They were also in war with the VZ-573-KYUP so I began harrassing them and will begin waring with them shortly. I have every econ/research going with the bugs, but can't seem to get a NAP yet. Need a bit more gifting or such to pull that off.

Tech: A few techs came in, but nothing of extreme importance (to my knowledge)

Military: Had a good bit going on here. Taking a look around, there was a good looking leech planet in bug space that only need to be invaded. (at Sardonyx). Green 2, size 11. Unfortunately, it starved to below invasion point before my transport got there. (damn bug..you should still be able to invade). Since we still don't have a NAP with the bugs, blockade Sardonyx to get this planet. The Kurah system (leeches) was oficially starved. The fleet was reifnorced there as well. You have an invasion force ready for the next step. I also reinforced the Micarus system with a carrier and recon task force after being almost taken out there. Whoever created those carrier ships...nice job. Those things are mean!! We also have task forces at Tristan and Galec for border protection.

All in all, this was a fun set of turns.

RBMoo1C Turn 171

Zed <--- UP
Drasca <---on deck
Brackard
Meldor
 
Ok, back from a weekend out of town. Got it.

We seem to have suffered from a bit of a lack of focus over the last several turns... I find we have trade treaties going with the Aulavuana, are we still at war & they never cancelled them, or are we now at peace? I don't see a lot of progress made since I started that conflict.

The fishes are our only real friends, yet they are the ones with the best (only, really) shot at a senate victory. Ostensibly they are at war with the robots, but a quick check of their relations shows they are actually on fairly good terms with them other than the current fracas. We, on the other hand, have lousy relations with the robots. The usual lizard-fish dynamic is present but the lizards and the fish seem to be ignoring one another at the moment. The fishes are upset with the bugs, so I guess they are a safe target to go after, but that fight would not last long and wouldn't really get us anywhere significantly closer to overall victory.

Important Question: What is our overall plan here? Do we make nice with the fishes and try to get them to vote us into the senate? Do we try to knock them down a peg or two, and put the axe to pretty much any plans to get into the senate? Do we try to give the NOs an outlying system or two to get them back ahead of the fishes on the powergraph? Inquiring minds want to know!

I want some opinions before I go ahead very much with my turn.
 
Hmmm....per my turn, I thought to try to get on good turns with the fishies to get into the senate, but I see where you're going. It's very possible the fishies will win the vote before we ever had a chance, all the while we are whilttling away the fishies' competition.

Assuming we hit the fishies though, that means we go for a conquest victory which could make for a long, long game. ;)

Your call.
 
I thought I was pursuing a war with the Aulavuana, I took one of there systems and was sending TFs to take the next one. They delcared peace and I never accepted it (that I recall).

I am willing to go either way. Getting into the Senate at this point may be hard for us.

BTW, I guess team A has stipped playing their game do to the problems not covered by the data patch.
 
Well, ok. It doesn't look like there's a strong opinion out there on what path to pursue.

I guess the options are to either hold off on hitting them and hope they vote us into the senate, or else to hit them now. While I don't think we would have too much problem taking away several of their colonies if we hit them sooner rather than later, it would take some time to get a significant amount of force over to their neck of the woods. Plus, I don't really care for attacking someone we are on good terms with if there's any way around it. (Whether there really is any way around it is, of course, open to debate.)

For now I guess I will hold off; we already have 3 fronts so I will instead try to mop up on those some. I may give the NOs an out-of-the-way system or two to see if I can curry some favour and to give them a pop boost so they don't lose any upcoming senate votes for the next while.

I'll try to play some more tonight.

EDIT: Had to work late tonight, will have to try again tomorrow.
 
I just wanted to wish you all good luck, and good perseverence. You remain RGMoo SG1's last hope for victory.

Team A cashed in their chips, and we on Team B were defeated in the Senate.

So I'd just like to say Good Luck, We're All Counting On You.

Darken.Rahl
 
Ha! Counting on us to do what, exactly??? We're not even in the senate yet! :)

Ok, well I played my turns, here's the skinny...



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/RBMoo1C_Turn_0181.zip

Most of my turn was taken up with subduing the Tachidi. I didn't like the construction of the 2 fleets we had there (one with all recon and no teeth, the other with all carriers and no support) so I disbanded them and built a new IF fleet instead. The ships from those two TFs should now be back in our reserves. The Tachidi used to have 6 planets in the Khumba system; they are now down to 1 and it should fall by next turn as it has a mobile corps on it which has nearly conquered the planet. Please remember to disband all ground troops in that system once it is clear; I already disbanded the main armour armies that I used on the larger planets but there are probably a couple of mobile corps around in system that still need to be disbanded.

I also tried to get some concentration of our forces happening in Aulavuana territory so we'd have enough ships in one spot to be able to take out enemy planets having missile batteries. Our ships in the area are pretty much all at Malec now and assaulting the two large Aulavuana planets there, with 2 armour armies on the way (again, remember to disband the armies after the planets are conquered.) I built a mob center at Trilar so we should be able to get more transports going in that area in a reasonable amount of time as we get the opportunity.

I ignored the Kar-Zinoaur leeches again I'm afraid. A single LR TF there won't cut it on its own; we need some significant carrier presence in the area if we're going to be serious about assaulting planets with missile bases. I didn't bother to try to send any down there as we really didn't have enough on hand at the start of my turn and it seems like a very low priority front at the moment. We could probably spare a couple carriers with an appropriate escort of Pd/Lr and Rcn ships if we wanted to now, but the next leader may decide we have bigger fish to fry...

We now have a significant number of ships in our reserves, probably enough to form a carrier armada (incl. some escorts and recon) though I didn't check, as well as a fair number of transports and enough armour for several armour armies at once. They are all warp 3 ships though so they are not super fast. Fortunately, we were recently able to steal Impulse Drives (warp 5) from the robots so I went ahead and redesigned all our ships except the colony and outpost ships. I got rid of the PD class since we can just use LR ships instead. These ships all incorporate cloaking technology and use mainly Autofire Ion Cannons for defense which should give them quite a punch and good PD capability (assuming the PD bug doesn't strike.) The carriers are using a large swarm of Ion Cannon fighters with a smaller number of Gauss Cannon fighters added in for extra punch.

Given the fate of RBMoo1B, I am seriously thinking about taking the fight to the Icthys, even though they are the closest thing we have to friends. :( I didn't bother to give the NOs any planets but the Zibal system is a good possibility since it's out of the way and only has 2 planets in it. In order to go after the Icthys we will probably have to go south from Misarius through Alcyone to Sirrah. From there we should be able to go south to Indu San which I believe is their capital (it has something like 22 system ships in it.) If you do build a carrier armada and start in on this path try to be careful about picking off the system ships (preferably by attacking planets without missile bases) before you attack the planets with missile bases. Also, it might be helpful to bring along a sacrificial TF if you are thinking of going up against a heavily defended target to absorb the first missile strike; the AI will seems to send the first missile strike against a colony or transport ship if one is around, which might save your attackers a big beating and give them time to take out the bases before a second volley can be launched. Another thing to consider is that even with a fairly large reserve of transport ships and armour armies, it takes time for planets to be conquered and for ships/armies to make it back out of the delay box and then back to the front, so more never hurts. Try to keep building mob centers close to the front when possible (i.e. you capture an enemy planet with significant industrial output.)

I'm not sure how much further we can take this. If we do go after the Icthys, will that ruin our chances of getting in the Senate? Now I'm not 100% sure considering the Aulavuana still seem to like us even though we are slowly absorbing their territory. If, on the other hand, our relations with the Icthys do in fact go down the tubes, I'm not really interested in going for a total conquest win. At the rate we're going, the code patch will be out long before we can even consider getting that far. :)

Anyway, I guess we'll just keep going and see what happens.
 
Ok, Drasca said he has finals this week so skip him. My last final is tomorrow, so I'll hit it on Tuesday night and should get it posted shortly thereafter.

Since I believe we are all in consensus that we don't really want to go for a conquest victory, I'll continue to push to get into the senate and work from there.
 
If you're going to push to get into the senate, does that mean you are not going to attack the Icthys? If that's the case, what are your plans for countering a senate loss before we get invited to join the senate?

In any case, we should endeavour to keep expanding our pop base (by conquest) so that if we do get invited to join the senate, we have enough votes to prevent a loss as experienced by RBMoo1B. If we are not going to attack the Icthys then we should continue working on the Eoladi; the Harvesters are not doing any harm bottled up in their little corner and their votes are not worth as much in the senate anyway.
 
That was my question. Do we push to get into the senate for fear of having to push for a conquest victory? Or do we throw that into the wind and push through the bugs like there's no tomorrow? Matters not to me.
 
Bugs are not an issue, they are gone as of your 1st turn... you mean the Icthys(fish) I guess?

Well until my last turn no-one wanted to take a firm stand on it. I agree that it would be nice if we got voted into the senate to prevent us having to go for an X or a conquest victory, but right now I don't see that happening any time soon. The problem is, the biggest player in the senate is the Icthys, and they are also pretty much our only potential friends in the senate. As such, if they are in a position to get us into the senate, they are also in a position to win the game by senate vote. If we had several friends in the senate who might get us in, but who hate one another and would never vote for one of them to lead the senate, then we could afford to try to wait it out, but that situation does not obtain. Hence, I don't think we can afford to wait and see what happens on the senate front.

If we can't wait and see on the senate front, that means we need to do something about the Icthys now and cut them down to size. That was why I was outlining attack plans in my last turn's post. We may also need to give the NOs some more vote power so they don't lose a senate vote too soon -- hence my comments about gifting them out-of-the-way systems (without giving them anything too juicy.)

I think the message from RBMoo1B is pretty clear -- we have a fixed if unknown deadline to prevent a senate loss, and if we don't take action to that effect enough in advance of that deadline we WILL lose by senate. I don't think we can take the chance that it might not happen and trust to the random chance of some other civ getting us in; we need to take our fate into our own hands and actively try to prevent a senate loss. If that forces us down the path to and X victory or a conquest victory instead, sobeit. Once we have got the senate situation under closer control, we can start thinking about building some fleets to go X-hunting.
 
Bugs...fishies...leeches, whatever. They're all alien to me. ;)

Conisder war on the fishies declared. Let the rumble begin! I believe you're right as far as giving the NO a system. Last time I checked, the fishies were only in war with the robots. The robots didn't have much left in terms of power. I'll see what damage I can inflict when I hit it tonight.
 
Peace is overrated. What we need is war. Lots of it. Every front. Bring it on.

Ok, let’s do this on a front by front basis.

Leeches: I assaulted the leech planet of Karaken with the forces we currently had in place. We took no casualties, as in zero. We took over a planet, disbanded ground forces, and created a few new forces to head on over there for the next planet party. I have to admit, I had a ground battle here that I actually LOST!! This was the first time I’d ever lost a ground battle. Reinforcements should be there this turn to try again. The leeches hold 5 planets or so. This system, and one more system to go, and that should be the end of the leech prescence.

Eoladi: I believe Malec is now ours. This was just a matter of getting a few transports out there to do the grunt work of taking the planets. I believe the closest mob was at Trilar so it was a bit of a hike.

Rocks: The rocks aren’t happy with us either. They decided to try invading from Thoth to Trilar. They had a TF of 16 ships on the way. I hastily constructed a TF with some of our older designs and whatever we had on hand at the time. It ended up being 2 TF, one of carriers, 1 of indirect. It was ugly. We annihilated them. No losses. I moved the forces onto Thoth where they will blockade until time to move on. Do not assault there quite yet, I don’t think we have the firepower to take these yet.

Icthys: And so the war of the superpowers has begun. I moved the TF from Khumba (after disbanding gropos there) down through Alcyone to Sirrah. Alcyone also has a Mob there so I created a carrier and LR attack TF there as well as several gropos. We now have a very solid assault force that I moved into Sirrah. It wasn’t pretty for the fishies. We conquered both planets there. We now have lanes open to Indu and Tabit. Indu only has 2 planets for the fishies with a lane on to Tabit. Tabit has 5 planets and 22 ships or so. From what I’ve encountered so far, that isn’t a problem. You should also have a few transports ready in this assault group as well. I didn’t start the assault yet, I figured I’d let the next leader have this fun. I really think Tabit is a viable target but take your pick.

Misc: Near the leech front, we have an open lane into our system at Frell. However, that system seems to be contested by 3 different factions, so I’m not overly worried at the moment. We also made contact with the Psilons and another race I don’t remember at the moment. Neither were of any real concern for the time being. I didn’t make any diplo but the Psilons are in cahoots with the Icthys. As planets have been conquered I’ve gone ahead and disbanded them back into the pool.

Unrest: With the large number of planets that have been conquered in the last 20 turns or so, unrest is popping up everywhere. I wasn’t going to sit my TF there to cure it, so I cut down taxes in those areas in hopes that it would help. The next leader will need to take a look because I had some problems here. Is there anything else I could do outside of lowering taxes?

Diplomacy: Who needs diplomacy? Diplomacy consists of being on the bad end of a big stick!

Oh, and I guess we need the save file:

RBMOO1C Turn 191

Meldor <---UP!!
Zed <---on deck
Drasca
Brackard
 
No, no, no, diplomacy is the art of talking until you find a bigger rock, or so it was said.

I see it and will have it in the queue.
 
Good job on your turn, Brackard! I didn't think we'd be advised to try the leeches' planets without carrier support, but I guess either those 2 old carriers from Waage were enough to wax the planetary bases or the leeches were sufficiently behind in tech that they couldn't dent our BBs before our BBs managed to close the range. I guess it's also possible that you haven't yet assaulted a heavily defended leech planet, but I doubt it. :)

You usually don't want your new ships sitting around fighting pirates, but you have to have something there to combat piracy or the systems you conquer will just go into revolt. This requires a bit of logistical planning to get police starships in to cover off piracy in systems you've conquered until such time as they can get their own anti-piracy stuff built, and can get to be a bit of a headache but that's just something that comes with the job of being a conquerer. We should have most of our shipbuilding planets building real military, while a few build cheap police starships (e.g. CAs/CLs) for anti-piracy duties in conquered systems. These police starships should have older, cheaper weapons on standard/light mounts, but modded up to the gills (esp. autofire) so that they are reasonably effective, and should have little in the way of specials or EW. Using weapons & systems that are relatively cheap but bulky means these police ships can still be effective against the occasional small force of AI raiders, but won't cost a lot and we can pump them out in quantity. We can then use these in addition to any broken TFs we might have kicking around to fight pirates, rather than tying up our fresh assault TFs on police duty.

One of the things we might want to consider doing to normalize our ship construction rate is to pick some set of our most developed worlds to do our shipbuilding, set the sliders to some fixed percentages, and turn off the econ AI to prevent it from changing them and dropping our military queue to 1%. Don't know how you feel about this though; you have to keep an eye on the MBQ (which you were probably doing anyway) but you also have to remember when any planetary queue tech becomes available to slot it in there manually. The various DEA improvements will still take care of themselves as long as there's funding allocated.

Another thing that really helps is prioritizing mob centers in newly conquered systems that are a couple jumps away from our current closest mob center. In order to do this as easily as possible, it is very important to capture the most populated enemy planet in that system first, as you can only build a mob center on the first planet you control in a system. That is, don't even try to capture any other planets until the biggest one is under your control; you never know when the ground combat AI is going to pull a reverse on you, so don't take chances. It's probably too late to do that with the Harvesters but we don't really need a mob center there anytime soon anyway.

EDIT: How are you guys finding the game going at 10 turns per player? I was thinking that with MOO, 20 turns per player might make for more natural breakpoints, and less of a rush to "get something done" on your turn. This seems to be more of a problem than in Civ SGs to me because travel times and logistics are a much bigger factor. In Civ, the front can be as wide as the land allows so it's easy to attack mulitple things at once and you can generally send stuff "to the front" without worrying too much about where exactly they need to go -- or if in the industrial age, rails mean you just go straight where needed. In MOO, the starlanes and required concentration/coordination of various forces makes for a much greater logistical burden on the attacker, and also tends to greatly slow down the seeming pace of conquest. Also, it seems to be considerably more difficult to communicate game state in MOO than in Civ, which might make having fewer handoffs between players something to be desired.

Would you prefer to be running 20-cycle turns?
 
I select the target planet during the ship attack phase for that system. If you win the battle, your troops if any will drop at the same planet. During the phase where you have the option to bombard and land troops, it's helpful to take a look at the enemy deployed troops number, so you know if you have brought enough forces or not (assuming you know what the contents of your own troop transports are, which can be a problem in an SG.) Keep in mind that that number does not include any militia the planet might be able to come up with -- and how much of those there will be depends on pop size of the planet.
 
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