Realism Invictus

[civman110]

IMHO it is either decrease on technology transfer on open border to 20 percent perhaps? and enabling research agreement later on (50-75) or basing technology transfer from open border which amount referencing on current relation (friendly=max, please=high, cautious=moderate, annoyed=low, furious=very low).

Looks like the RI team took your suggestion into consideration.

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I'm trying out one of the latest SVNs now (haven't completed my game yet just entering the industrial era) so I'm just going to offer some feedback on the new changes so far:

- I love how you can culture flip capitals now. This is great for conquering the Americas. Now you don't have to be hated by everyone as long as you have a bit of patience and strategically attack only a few Native civs and culture flip the rest.

- I like the small nerfs to the research bonuses on certain buildings and the tech x-fer reduction.

- It may just be this game, but religions aren't being spread like plague anymore which is nice. You end up with more of a multi-polar world.

- I also noticed that there has been far less runaway civs over the last few months and there hasn't been many huge power gaps like in versions gone past. Elizabeth even wonder whored shamefully this game and she still only has 25 cities vs. 10-17 cities for mostly everyone else. It seems to be due to 2 changes that I really like:

1) Increased cost per # of cities and few civics that reduce this cost.
2) Commerce re-balancing

#1 is balanced perfect imo, but I believe the commerce re-balancing still needs some tweaks. One thing I am noticing is that they only way to grow your empire now is by teching and relying on new buildings and civics (research and development). There should also be some growth potential from conquests too, although a balanced approach of R&D and controlled expansion should ultimately be the superior strategy in the long term.

It would be nice if you could spur some small growth by capturing and controlling resources as well. I really do like the recent reductions in gold from buildings, but may I suggest focusing on reducing gold bonuses mainly from buildings that are not tied to resources (like you did for banks) and perhaps give buildings such as markets, grocers, and trading posts small % bonuses if you control or trade for certain resources. Then perhaps you can earn an extra 5%-10% gold per building (on top of their current gold bonus) if you have all the required resources, which doesn't amount to a whole lot of extra gold per city, but may allow you to fund an extra 2-3 cities a bit sooner.

For Example:

Market +20% Gold
- Fish +2%
- Sheep +2%
- Pig +3%
- Cattle +3%

Grocer +15% Gold
- Banana +1%
- Citrus Fruit +2%
- Spices +2%

and bring back small gold bonuses from the trading post. I left out the jeweller because I like the new benefits and the precious mines are already quite balanced and profitable if you control gold, silver, and gems. Also, plantations do not receive a bonus from having a trading post like the mines do from jewellers, so a gold bonus for this building should be fairly balanced.

Trading Post
- Coffee +2%
- Tobacco +3%
- Sugar +5%

So overall, if you have every resource it would amount to an extra 25% gold per city, which isn't that much since you'd need to build all 4 buildings and chances of having every resource are slim. Or these buildings could give additional gold bonuses to plots containing these resources like the jeweller. The % bonus might end up being too much in later eras as your economy grows.

Also the Aztec chinampa should receive all of the upgrades that farms do as you discover new techs.

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Overall, I really like all of the new changes so far. Thanks for all the hard work and thought you guys put into this!

 

[DisposableHero]

Perhaps its just that I’ve been reading a lot of this thread and picked up a lot of tips, but there seems to have been a marked improvement in the “psychotic war AI” in the SVN, compared to the release version that I was playing early last year (3.25 I think).

I was experiencing some aggression from my western neighbour that I would characterise as periodic rather than constant, usually resulting in a small skirmish whilst my defensive stack attacked his. After reinforcing this border and building up a higher power rating – and later switching to his religion – these conflicts ceased entirely.

Roughly coinciding with this, I then started drawing the attention of my northern neighbour. Again, after a few regular attacks I was able to put an end to things by stationing a permanent, large garrison there (easily supported with the cottages I had spammed over flood plains), and built a fort over the natural chokepoint between our two territories. The AI attempted to attack this directly once, attempted a wide flank on a second occasion, and when both were unsuccessful it promptly gave up. My eastern neighbour launched one attack before the garrison was established, and none after.

It’s also worth pointing out that these attacks only seemed to start once the immediate usable space had been taken up, leaving all civs with no option but to expand by offense. Indeed, my southern neighbour, and the most powerful of all my immediate neighbours at the time, ignored me entirely – right up until we had gobbled up a weaker Civ between us. Faced with attacking me or his own neighbour who is even more powerful, he wisely chose the former.

I have seen only one instance of a Civ war-spamming me in this game, and that was after I took two of his cities whilst he was fighting someone else and his armies were otherwise engaged, so is fully anticipated. Now, my western border is fully secure and my northern border is completely pacified after my eastern neighbour took the city there, allowing me to free up all those troops to garrison the east and south.

In short, I just want to reiterate the comments here that proper defence of borders and effective diplomacy abroad is crucial to your civilisations security. You know, just like in real life!

 

[AdamCrock]

Hi After spending countless hours... (who am I kidding... It has been months now ! ) playing RI I've got to say this is probably the best Civ 4 mod available today ! Thanks for making it guys. The only flaw is long loading time but I understand that it is an engine limitation. I have got one suggestion to make for the next release. I would relly like to see more severe punishment for exceeding the logistics limits (something like 50% more severe than it is now). It's because I saw AI's winning with stacks of 40+ cannons and 80 charge mounted units which I think is what You guys tried to avoid incorporating logistics limits (great idea btw )

 

[H4run]

Hi After spending countless hours... (who am I kidding... It has been months now ! ) playing RI I've got to say this is probably the best Civ 4 mod available today ! Thanks for making it guys. The only flaw is long loading time but I understand that it is an engine limitation. I have got one suggestion to make for the next release. I would relly like to see more severe punishment for exceeding the logistics limits (something like 50% more severe than it is now). It's because I saw AI's winning with stacks of 40+ cannons and 80 charge mounted units which I think is what You guys tried to avoid incorporating logistics limits (great idea btw )

nice idea, I wonder why they don't apply something like EU attrition system? Huge number of people within close proximity can reduce the level of hygiene and resulted sickness beside logistic, the amount of soldier died during battle from sickness are huge even in many case the number of people that died from sickness exceed the number that died from killing each other. It is also a good idea to give a general attrition penalty for marching in jungle. However the application maybe complicated, and I also don't know how to adapt the AI to use this thing, it is awesome thing to apply but it is sound complicated also especially I have no knowledge regarding programming.

 

[AdamCrock]

nice idea, I wonder why they don't apply something like EU attrition system? Huge number of people within close proximity can reduce the level of hygiene and resulted sickness beside logistic, the amount of soldier died during battle from sickness are huge even in many case the number of people that died from sickness exceed the number that died from killing each other. It is also a good idea to give a general attrition penalty for marching in jungle. However the application maybe complicated, and I also don't know how to adapt the AI to use this thing, it is awesome thing to apply but it is sound complicated also especially I have no knowledge regarding programming.

Yes You're right of course. Biological warfare comes to mind. Already towns (cottage improvement) increase the chance of epidemics in the city. Of course the huge number of people stationed near or in the city could and probably should increase that chance (of epidemics) but I think that sadly within engine of Civ 4 it is not possible to incorporate... i think. Of course everything's possible but I think that it would be hard to introduce to the Civ 4 engine.

 

[Antmanbrooks]

Yeah, in 3.25 canal replaces workshop for South China. Of course, it is completely different in current SVN already...

How exactly does the canal work these days? I have a friend that plays and he can't work out the best use for canals. How are they meant to be used?

 

[sami_snow]

How exactly does the canal work these days? I have a friend that plays and he can't work out the best use for canals. How are they meant to be used?

I don't think it's all that strong. some the unique improvements are pretty marginal - chinampa, for example. sometimes you get a tile when it is useful but you can't base a whole strategy around it (like you can the grazing ground for example). but aztecs are still really strong even with a mediocre improvement - haven't rolled south china for a while so not sure about canals

also thanks devs for the new levee, it's so... not broken!!

 

[JeremyHussell]

Perhaps now would be good time for a proper release? I'm beginning to feel like I'm missing a lot of improvements again, and I'm sure there are plenty of others like me who don't jump through all the hoops involved in getting and packing the cutting edge version.

 

[Routalempi]

Perhaps now would be good time for a proper release? I'm beginning to feel like I'm missing a lot of improvements again, and I'm sure there are plenty of others like me who don't jump through all the hoops involved in getting and packing the cutting edge version.

I thought the same at first, but after I started using SVN there's no going back. Packing the art file is not necessary, at least for me it only takes few minutes to start the mod anyway, which is a perfect time to get yourself a cup of coffee.

Also, updating to the newest version is really easy with SVN program.

 

[Antmanbrooks]

Perhaps now would be good time for a proper release? I'm beginning to feel like I'm missing a lot of improvements again, and I'm sure there are plenty of others like me who don't jump through all the hoops involved in getting and packing the cutting edge version.

I thought the same at first, but after I started using SVN there's no going back. Packing the art file is not necessary, at least for me it only takes few minutes to start the mod anyway, which is a perfect time to get yourself a cup of coffee.

Also, updating to the newest version is really easy with SVN program.

Getting the latest SVN version is a little hard work to start with but if you've done this kind of thing before it's easy. If not, I really recommend you give it a go. It's daunting at first but once you've followed the instructions then you'll be glad you did. You can find the instructions here. Then it's best to pack your art folder to speed the load times up. Instructions to do that are here. I never wanted to go through this either, but once I did I never looked back. The latest SVN versions are always so much better than the standard release and the game is much more balanced now.

 

[JeremyHussell]

Getting the latest SVN version is a little hard work to start with but if you've done this kind of thing before it's easy. If not, I really recommend you give it a go. It's daunting at first but once you've followed the instructions then you'll be glad you did. You can find the instructions here. Then it's best to pack your art folder to speed the load times up. Instructions to do that are here. I never wanted to go through this either, but once I did I never looked back. The latest SVN versions are always so much better than the standard release and the game is much more balanced now.

Well, I'm still at the "I don't want to go through this" stage, as I suppose quite a few others are too. Most forums have about ten times more lurkers than active posters, and I'm guessing they're often more limited in the amount of time they put into this mod than the people who post. So I'll probably keep playing the release version while I wait for Walter Hawkwood or one of the other developers to let us know what they're thinking in terms of release dates.

That said, I appreciate that you were trying to be helpful (really).

 

[Slasky]

Hey! just decided to try out civ 4 while waiting for my go-to civ 5 mod to get updated, and decided to play this mod which so far seems awesome, so thanks for that I just have 1 quick question, not sure if its only in RI or vanilla too as I haven't played vanilla Anyway is it possible to get the music to always play? Now it stops if i zoom in or out too much, or go to a town, but i would like it to just play always, and i haven't found a setting or found anything on google about this. Thanks!

 

[sami_snow]

you really should just get the svn I suck at computers and I did it

shouldn't the fortified monastery get a bonus from having monastic order in the city?

 

[H4run]

Hey! just decided to try out civ 4 while waiting for my go-to civ 5 mod to get updated, and decided to play this mod which so far seems awesome, so thanks for that I just have 1 quick question, not sure if its only in RI or vanilla too as I haven't played vanilla Anyway is it possible to get the music to always play? Now it stops if i zoom in or out too much, or go to a town, but i would like it to just play always, and i haven't found a setting or found anything on google about this. Thanks!

As far As I know as I already play civ4 for years you can't do that. If you zoom in the volume of the music will be decrease in return you will heard the music of your own country, if you are zooming enemy cities you will hear the drum of war. However in return you can customize the drum of war music by manipulating the drum of war files, which I did, because I don't like the sound.

 

[DisposableHero]

So... vassals. Is the consensus to leave these switched off? Because they don't seem to be working quite right. As in, in my 20 player game, all civs but the top 5/6 (including me) have vassaled up to one of the top 5/6. And all peacefully, too.

 

[civman110]

So... vassals. Is the consensus to leave these switched off? Because they don't seem to be working quite right. As in, in my 20 player game, all civs but the top 5/6 (including me) have vassaled up to one of the top 5/6. And all peacefully, too.

I really wish this worked properly, but when switched on I find that all the weaker civs just join the most powerful 2 or 3 civs creating these giant horde empires. For that reason I always play with them off.

 

[Routalempi]

I really wish this worked properly, but when switched on I find that all the weaker civs just join the most powerful 2 or 3 civs creating these giant horde empires. For that reason I always play with them off.

I think AI:s being vassalized too easily is actually one of the biggest problems of the mod at the moment and it should be fixed as soon as possible. I play most of the time with vassals turned off too.

 

[teks]

Yeah, I've been playing the old version before vassals broke
Too big a feature for me to lose. If I remember it was some third party mod to the AI. It wouldn't be such a big deal, but playing without it on the world map isn't very good and that's all I do.

 

[DisposableHero]

Off it is!

What about Raging Barbarians? I've found that the AI often struggles to deal with them and can often get killed off, but without it there isn't much acting as a constraint on early growth.

 

[civman110]

Off it is!

What about Raging Barbarians? I've found that the AI often struggles to deal with them and can often get killed off, but without it there isn't much acting as a constraint on early growth.

Random maps it makes a big difference, but on the world map it only effects civs that are next to Barb cities. So, India, China, Russia, Korea all get a pretty rough go. World maps I play with it off.