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Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Sathar

    Sathar Chieftain

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    Explained by the last two posts, but I'll say it out loud:

    When attacking a non-adjacent space, it is always good practice to first move adjacent and then attack.

    I'd rather have a defensible stack waste their turn standing someplace I don't want to be, than to have that lone valuable unit charge forth only to die because the real odds were 0.2 and not 0.99.
     
  2. le_harv

    le_harv Chieftain

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    I know this isn't the current SVN but I am getting a repeatable crash on this autosave with version 5079. It will CTD at the end of the turn or at least it does on my machine.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    The research speed is balanced for regular games, not for that particular scenario. It is predictably higher there as there are more civs and consequently more tech transfer going on. I could try lowering the research rate for the scenario-only map size, but it is shared with smaller maps too, so I don't want setting it too low.

    As for civs that constantly over/underperform: while I try to create a semblance of balance, the Earth map is inherently imbalanced, since starting positions are vastly unequal. Germany and Poland in particular can't be helped much, since they just have too many neighbors on all sides, and just get dogpiled from all sides. I make some tweaks now and then to underperformers, but there is only so much I can do. As for overperforming civs, it is semi-intentional. I like to have some civs vastly important to world history, like Rome, China (at least one of them) and India actually play an important part in most games.

    Some interesting ideas here, thanks! As for trade routes, we haven't yet touched tech transfer in any fundamental way since forever. Probably need to.

    I like Influence Driven War as a concept, but I am not sure if it will ever get added due to the amount of effort required to do so. As for wonder hoarding, that's something I'd love to tweak so it wouldn't happen all the time.

    Yeah, I'm contemplating something like that.

    A very interesting observation, thanks! The effect could probably be tweaked to impact actual production rather than costs.

    Well, I didn't manage to find an actual cause of the CTD (most likely having to do with some AI calculations), but I've been able to advance it to the next turn without crashing for at least 10 next turns. So if you want to continue, here is your save. And we'll likely be looking at that CTD in more depth.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. OldBoomer

    OldBoomer Warlord

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    I also really like this idea.

    @ Walter - As it is now I think the city revolts are too overpowered, so much so that I never use siege units anymore. I don't think you should be able to take a city's defenses down to 0% in 1 turn. I think it would work a lot better if the revolt took place over several turns and each turn the city's defenses were reduced by a random amount. The units inside the city could also have chance of taking a small amount of damage (similarly to how collateral damage works) each turn and how many turns the revolt would last could be partially random and partially depend on how many units are garrisoned in that city. This way in order to take a city's defenses to 0% with a revolt you'd need, time, a bit of luck, and a city without a large garrison.
     
  5. Dr Roach

    Dr Roach Chieftain

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    Why isn't there a Khmer or Southeast Asian civilization? It seems like not having one would be a pretty big hole missing. Is it just lack of time or development skill, or is there a design-philosophy objection?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  6. teks

    teks Prince

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    South China.

    If a civ doesn't exist it's normally because their full history can't be fleshed out into a pack of unique units and buildings. I think thats the case for Khmer.
     
  7. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    Thanks for the insight! I don't use espionage much if at all myself, so I welcome that observation and I'll think about what can be done.

    Basically what teks pointed out. Since RI, as most other mods, includes a lot of community-made content, there was simply not enough stuff available to flesh out Khmer. They actually were the likeliest civ to be included as playable next, but the that was more or less the exact moment that the guy making excellent unit packs chose to disappear without finishing them. Also, Austronesians are actually THE largest Southeast Asian group of peoples, and they are in, so the region isn't unrepresented at all.
     
  8. Sathar

    Sathar Chieftain

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    On the City Revolt point: now that Spy units cannot enter enemy-occupied squares, which effectively includes all enemy cities, wartime Espionage acts are far less common. Coupled with the national limit of 3 Spies (which will need to be embedded before the fighting starts), this just won't come up that often anymore.
     
  9. OldBoomer

    OldBoomer Warlord

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    Thanks!

    I didn't know this. I haven't played the recent SVN. The thing is that it doesn't even need to come up often to be a problem. As spy revolts are now you can take a strategically key, well fortified city in a single turn that you otherwise wouldn't be able to take and this sort of thing often does dictate who will win that particular war.

    @ Walter - What was the reasoning for this change? I like the idea of limiting the number of spies (because the AI would often spam spies which was quite annoying), but I personally think wartime spying is an important part of the espionage system and that you should be able to enter enemy territory with spies.

    Also since I;m on the topic, one more thing about the espionage AI that always annoyed me was when "friendly," or "pleased" civs would engage in really aggressive and hostile espionage acts against you, for example poisoning your water supply, instigating revolts, sabotage, etc. These are acts of war and diplomatically should be treated much more severely than "-1 your spy was caught causing trouble" - I don't know if this is something that would be possible. I'd also like to suggest making civs who are "friendly," or "pleased" far less likely to engage in exorbitantly hostile espionage missions and more likely to go for things such as stealing techs, influencing civics and religion, etc.
     
  10. teks

    teks Prince

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    I agree that wartime spying is a good thing and the resource cost balances it out well enough. People who don't use spies complain how its impossible to wage war in medieval times. I never found enemy spies to be much of a problem either. I just place a spy in every city and its normally enough. With spy limits I couldn't defend my cities from spies so effectively.
     
  11. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    In my last game I had about 7 spies out spawnbusting to keep the raging barbarians at bay.
    The number is going to be reduced to 3?
    Oh, that's not good. ;(
     
  12. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Warlord

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    It occurs to me that with the unit upgrade cost changes the progressive trait got a considerable buff. Maybe its time to lower its upgrade discount from 50% a bit.
     
  13. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Warlord

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    What is the purpose of this? Did you notice a steep increase in performance of progressive civs led by AI? Are progressive civs easier to play than others? Even with such a large but still conditional bonus is progressive better than seafarer or financial? It was a great coincidence (or clever design) that the progressive trait had been buffed by unit cost increase mechanics. Moreover this part of a trait begins to shine the more units you upgrade which means that there can be situations when you won't use this bonus for a long time.
     
  14. Sathar

    Sathar Chieftain

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    Grenadier requires Black Powder. When Repeating Rifles are researched Powder Mills are disabled causing Macemen to be the build-able Shock unit until War Factories are built/Semiauto Firearms become available.

    Suggestion: Grenadiers require Black Powder or Firearms.

    Also, Foreign-Trained Infantry doesn't appear right. I am the tech leader and am still at Trench Infantry (Str 18), upon building a War Factory I can now produce Foreign-Trained Infantry even though no one has unlocked Str 20 Infantry yet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
  15. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    That's an unintended side effect of the fact that spies are now visible to barbarians, to prevent the exploit of free fogbusting or exploring with a unit nobody can touch. You can still enter enemy territory at war, just not cities - so at war spies are still useful for scouting.

    That's AI stuff, and AI stuff is scary. :)

    More than that, barbarians are now going to eat your spies for breakfast. ;)

    Thanks, excellent observations! All fixed.
     
  16. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    My first response is "Oh Great!" noting how my spawnbusting will become more difficult.
    Then, my creative mind starts thinking of naming spies after food.
    Green eggs and ham, and 00porkchop. LOL
     
  17. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    Hey. Any chance that some new leaders will be added in the next update?
    I've been interested in trying a Spiritual/Progressive leader and there isn't one.
    Also, there are several trait combinations that only one leader has.
    It would be nice to try them on another empire other than by using unrestrictive leaders.
    Any changes to existing leaders or traits?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  18. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    Actually guys, I realized I want to ask everyone (especially SVN players) their more general opinion. What in general you don't like? What civs feel uninteresting/underpowered? What features seem annoying? Can't promise to fix everything, but you can definitely give me a direction to look.

    New additions are unlikely at this point, as they have to come with leader-specific city lists, which is a lot of work even with one leader. Reshuffling some traits to cover the missing combo is a more realistic possibility, but I'll see what I can do. Sometimes a good candidate for a particular combo just doesn't come to mind...
     
  19. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Warlord

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    I'll probably respond to this with a longer post later, but right now I just want to mention the one thing that makes me want to punch my fist through the monitor most when it happens:

    Discover Alphabet.
    Hurricane destroys Storyteller Circle. :D

    I 100% never fail to enable cheat mode and just add the circle back into the city if this ever happens. So much do I hate it. I guess the roots of this problems lie from when Schools were moved from requiring Alphabet into a Medieval era building. It does make sense that Alphabet discontinues storytelling from a flavor standpoint, but one now has to wait for a long time for the replacement building. Maybe something in-between, like a Scribe?
     
  20. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    Well... No, this one is actually by design. Storytellers are from the start intended to go discontinued very early on, so a civ only has them in a few starting cities. Flat-rate buildings are all similar in this respect. What I should probably do to make it less annoying, though, is make it a limited building that doesn't go obsolete until schools.
     

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