1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,172
    Location:
    London, UK
    A couple of posts ago I told you the exact things to try: turning off some/all of "Religion Shock", "Barbarian Civs", "Revolutions" custom settings. Have you tried that?
     
  2. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    109
    Are we looking at the same graphs? More than 50 fish, more than 35 clam, more than 40 cow on a huge map on average. But less than 5 dye, fur, coffee, gold, ivory, sugar, tobacco. Less than 10 banana, cotton, crab, gems, incense, lemon, marble, potato, salt, silk, silver, whale, wine. The total numbers of 26 (almost 60%) resources are less than the number of players in the beginning. This means that most players will never use a good chunk of these resources. As for timber it is indeed abundant, comparable with iron, saltpeter. However, nowhere near fish, for example.
     
  3. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,172
    Location:
    London, UK
    Yeah, water resources are overly abundant because water is abundant - so there is a lot of space to place them. Missed the cows, that one's interesting.

    As for everything else, it's more or less where it should be. Were you conducting this with an assumption that every resource should be available in abundance? What would be the gameplay reasons for each resource to be present in equal or greater numbers to the amount of players? Resources in general exist in Civ 4 to create a situation of scarcity. A situation when there's enough of everything for everyone (and note that "enough of everything" is even less than one per player, as a percentage of players get eliminated each game) would be detrimental for gameplay.
     
  4. johncade

    johncade Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    29
    Gender:
    Male
    Hi Walter
    Yeah mate, I have all of them off, we have been experiencing desyncs since before those features were introduced anyway, I think the only way to be sure is to try and stomach a vanilla game, and if it still de-syncs then I can stop pestering you.
    We used to play vanilla years ago without any issues, but that was back in the Windows XP era.
     
  5. sazhdapec

    sazhdapec Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    109
    OK, let me rephrase: do you think the number of problematic seafood should be decreased?

    It heavily depends on the number of players. I play with a lot of starting civs. But all my following reasoning is based on a default number of players.
    My goal is the range from -5 to +5 relative to the number of starting players.

    First, trading. Resources are obviously not placed uniformly. Second, 'powering up' all those nice activator/converter buildings you introduced in the mod. Third, what's the point in having all these 'rare' resources in the first place if they are often absent for individual players?

    I thought resources exist to encourage players to expand. To balance that there are mechanics (and other civs) that discourage expansion.

    I strongly believe that the number of players during the course of the game should not change much. So there's always need for either trading or fighting over resources.
     
  6. 2popbulb

    2popbulb Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    54
    Gender:
    Male
    I think main problem with resources is that it is very unlikely that you will get 2 stone so there is no way you can build paved roads. Coal is also very rare. If you don't have coal in industrial era you are dead. It is very frustrating to play until I research Coal Mining and discover that there is no coal on entire continent. In that case I have to conquer/build cities very far away from my empire just to get coal. I know that you can trade with AI civs but good luck getting something valuable from them for a reasonable price.
     
  7. Civ4Psychomaniac

    Civ4Psychomaniac Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2018
    Messages:
    34
    I won't lie, i literally shed a tear at the detail of this mod the first time i played it
     
  8. Civ4Psychomaniac

    Civ4Psychomaniac Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2018
    Messages:
    34
    Is there a mechanic like Rhye and Fall where cities get their names from the tile they're on? Real city positions i mean
     
  9. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,172
    Location:
    London, UK
    Damn. Then there is no real way for me to do anything about it, because I wouldn't even know where to begin looking.

    Mmm... Don't really know. Basically, without those water tiles are relatively worthless compared to land tiles, as there is no "no resource" improvement unlike on most land terrains. I basically grew to treat sea resources separately from land ones.

    The fact that something is in the game does not necessarily presume it should be useful - or used - 100% of the time. Current balance does not assume players having all the luxuries and health resources at once, but rather a certain percentage of those, as none of them are really indispensible. Strategic resources are a whole other thing altogether, but your graphs show they are generally more available.

    Yeah, you basically rephrased what I stated - scarcity motivates expansion.

    That's intentional with stone. It is but one way of getting it done - over the course of time, you are practically guaranteed to get masonry materials one way or the other, the real question being not "if" but "when". And that's intentional. Managed to get two stone - cool, enjoy roads and bonuses sooner. No? Wait for coal mining.

    As for coal, that's basically why this tech is so awfully early in the tech tree. The actual uses for coal in medieval era are rather marginal, and in no way having it is mandatory at that point. You basically have a quarter of the game from Coal Mining to get yourself some coal until it gets really really crucial.

    No, because RI is not centered around the actual Earth map unlike RaF, so the amount of effort one would put into it just for one scenario is unreasonable.
     
  10. Civ4Psychomaniac

    Civ4Psychomaniac Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2018
    Messages:
    34
    Kinda weird how native city names get renamed to actual European names if conquered though, while seeing kostantinyye in central Asia
     
  11. Hamid.H

    Hamid.H Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    Yup! That did the trick! I was so disappointed when I thought I would have to abandon that game early. Thank you Walter, for the fix and also the latest update. The units look wonderful and the revolutions are having the effect that I always hoped they would have. I also really like the updated start page and fonts. I noticed that you improved several of the leaderheads as well.

    You really do get a lot of interesting scenarios with the revolutions which has made the game so much more dynamic. Not only are these civil war scenarios interesting to watch play out, but unconventional
    warfare is a viable strategy. Choke off a rival's luxury resources and max out your culture along their border cities. Sabotage key buildings. Very cool.

    In the past I often found myself playing wack a mole in an attempt to prevent civs from reaching "critical mass." Now things are much more dynamic and the strategy just got so much deeper. I finally feel like Civ4 is complete.

    Thank you! :)
     
  12. johncade

    johncade Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    29
    Gender:
    Male
    There may be an issue with the collateral damage, I'm being limited in my bombardment on enemy cities and stacks, I can shell them till some of their units are a few points below max with a 30% max collateral damage, while other units remain untouched, then the bombard square goes grey and my remaining artillery or Aircraft sit on their hands, all the while there are untouched units in the enemy stack, and the damage that I have done is way below the 30%.
    However the AI on the other hand are decimating my units, affecting all the units in my stacks, and reducing 20 strength units down to 6 strength, while having a max 40% collateral damage, and no promotions, playing on noble if that makes any difference.
     
  13. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    244
    Location:
    Finland
    The issue is with how the game picks the defending unit. Notice how whenever you select a different unit from your stack and hover over the enemy stack, it automatically selects the best defender. Unfortunately that also happens when the attacking unit is bombarding. It's possible a unit has reached max collateral damage while still being strong enough to be picked by the game engine. In that case, you can't bombard. The situation may change once you've attacked the stack with other units, which might change the math. It's hard to predict.

    It's really frustrating sometimes, especially with the "Protect valuable units" option on, because in that case there might be strong special units hiding in the stack you'd like to soften up because they'll totally murder anyone attacking the stack while taking miminal damage themselves, but the option hides them whenever they have a chance of being hurt by bombardment. This issue has been known ever since bombardment was added, and I'm guessing there is no way to fix it without delving extremely deep into how the game selects defenders, or adding a bunch of code to have the bombardment work differently enough so it doesn't pick a defender. These changes will not happen, I'm pretty sure, since the mod is winding down.

    BTW, I don't think it makes any difference whether the attacker or the defender is AI player. It just depends on the make-up of the defending stack. If your stack is homogenous, or all units are relatively close to each other in power level, it's more vulnerable. AI on the other hand tends to have stacks made up of "cannon-fodder" with a few stronger units thrown in. (Like 20 shortswordsmen and two spearmen). Ironically, the stronger units take the cannon strikes and protect the fodder.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  14. johncade

    johncade Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    29
    Gender:
    Male
    I suppose that makes sense, one of my stacks that I have around a city I'm currently trying to bring down has all WW2 Assault infantry strength 20, and they are being bomb spammed by 30+ Chinese WW2 bombers, many of my units being reduced to 6 or 7 strength, I have 4 stacks of troops total around this city with plenty of Artillery, tanks and infantry, but as soon as the stacks were moved adjacent to the city they are rendered useless by the bombers, with an option of attacking the city with 7% success after shelling them as much as I am "allowed", and a total of 35 enemy units defending in the city plus their bombers, it's impossible to capture without throwing away hoards of units, I don't see this as strategy, it's more like "rushing" in RTS games.
     
  15. ThirdOrbital

    ThirdOrbital Chieftain

    Joined:
    Friday
    Messages:
    1
    Hi Walter,

    Love love love your mod. I've got thousands of hours in it (I almost exclusively play marathon on huge random map) both single player and multiplayer with my wife, and college roommates back in the day. Sad to hear that the project is winding down; I would have donated years ago but a tooltip told me you guys aren't in it for the money and dont accept donations.

    Anyway, I have two minor bugs from the latest stable/packaged release. Apologies if they've already been addressed elsewhere.

    1 - In a recent game, Turkic workers were unable to build windmills. I thought perhaps there was a missing tech but this lasted up through Future Tech.
    2 - In the last five or so random map generations, sheep have never spawned anywhere on the huge map. All other resources, including the RI specific ones, seem fine but I cant get any sheep. Very odd.

    Cheers!
     
  16. Goetz53

    Goetz53 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    France
    Just in case it's easy to fit, I encountered a very small bug in svn5218 : At the first encounter with Stalin on a large random RI_planet_generator map his diplomatic text didn't show up but the variable. All worked fine with him in later messages.
     
  17. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    244
    Location:
    Finland
    IIRC the Timar is supposed to be a replacement on windmills, so this is intentional.
     
  18. johncade

    johncade Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    29
    Gender:
    Male
    Possibly a mistake, but building a temple causes illness, however building a stadium creates health.
     
  19. Shuikkanen

    Shuikkanen Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    244
    Location:
    Finland
    As for the stadium health, did you by any chance have a random event/quest occur in which one of the options causes arenas to create a point of health if you meet the conditions/succeed in the quest? I think the flavor justification was that people kept themselves in shape to compete in the games (goes all the way back to vanilla). What RI changed was that it also includes stadiums (a RI building), since those obsolete arenas and it was a bummer to build them if you had this reward effect going on.

    As for the temples, I'm not sure if they've been changed recently to cause unhealthiness. Or maybe when you have a religion that is not supposed to gain health from certain health resources due to not using them (clams and crabs and pigs for judaism, pigs for islam, cows for hindus who gain happiness instead), it has been accomplished by tying it to the temple of that religion. Therefore it would show that temple as granting unhealthiness when it really just removes an existing bonus if you have such a situation.
     
  20. johncade

    johncade Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    29
    Gender:
    Male
    The stadium gives +1 Health according to the civilopedia, and the Christian temple gives -1 health, I'm sure the dozen or so people competing in the stadium may gain some benefit, but the thousands watching?
    As far as the temple, i'm sure an atheist would think it unhealthy going to a temple, but we are talking about history and the christian temples had a long history of healing.
     

Share This Page