ilduce349
(Financial, Philo)
Your just jealous because the voices don't talk to you
Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR
- Thread starter Lighthearter
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arya126
Squad Leader
Your just jealous because the voices don't talk to you
Actually they do, but that is irrevelant. That wasnt funny at all. Just spam.
ilduce349
(Financial, Philo)
Yeah it was. its the best schizophrenic joke I know.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
Are we really having this discussion?
DarkGawain
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 28, 2010
- Messages
- 4
Epic fail mathnerd, what on earth does this have to do with anything realated to this thread. ><
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
It was a thing on chat a while ago.
Also, its good to know I'm not the only one staying up this late.
Also, its good to know I'm not the only one staying up this late.
In regards to Ilduce
Sorry about missing out the consortium. I included it in the following tally post, i just must have been tired.
Interesting that you hate Anarchy even if the outcome would make up the deficiant caused by the turns of no production. I take it you are the type of person who likes to see constant growth as it feels like it's more powerful and more dependable, even if statistically other options provide better economy?
Congratulations on being the Governer of England. The homeland has the best production and natural defence so it should be the best place to try and build some wonders. It probably needs a extra naval unit to fend of the roman tireme but thats it.
I only have governership of France, Which is RY and Whosit-Antium (you need to pick a city whosit or we'll do it for you! you can't escape!) but don't worry Ravus-York will be getting a market ASAP to reap the benifits from the religious shrine.
In Regards to Celticfury
Thanks for the reply.
The Egyptians and Vikings seem to be the consensus. The Egyptians as the most likely prospect for friendship and the vikings from wanting to divide them from russia.
I actually wondered about a Indpendent Party being founded if you get annoyed at people asking/begging/bribing you to join them.
Indepents
The Party joins no coalitions and the members vote for other parties. It is merely a havan for those who wish to remain outside of the present power struggles.
something like that.
In Regards to WIM
Looks like we are joint ministers of peace and foriegn affairs
I'll probably focus mainly on keeping the peace in internal disputes, i assume you will try to keep the peace in forign affairs more often including the romans and russians etc.
On the War
As long as you don't throw us a curveball it would have been stategically Antium provides a perfect defensive base to guard the southern pass while the north is mopped up. I take it you are also going to show events so that the romans would not except peace? normally if you hurt the AI enough the war wearyness sticks around. So if you see a huge army approaching then you can still get peace with them giving you stuff because of the way the coding works.
Once the elections are over the Whosit will probably ask for a break down of forces again like you did when the romans declared. (x archers in england y axemen in france etc)
In Regards to Arya
Arya, are you are aware that historically public attempts to force someone out of a group by outside forces normally causes those groups to rally together?
I am honestly curious, as it seems there isn't much of a reason apart from a throw-away comment. Either this is the 'straw that broke the camels back' or ilduce is being used as a scapegoat. As a Minister of Peace it would be nice to have your public statement on the matter so that you aren't labeled as a fanatic or a terrorist again. all we have so far are the quotes below. Also refer to the matter on co-operation below
The statement of decrying Ilduce for not treating it like a game when you yourself are getting emotionally invested in a throwaway comment is a bit hypocritical. Can you state why throwing all your political might at screwing ilduce is in the best interests of england?
Quote from Nukeknockout stating that it was you he didn't trust not to backstab or sabotage.
Quote from Ilduce as a throwaway comment. Most likely talking about how Arya soldiers are not a good way to protect from Arya
Quote from Arya in his response.
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In Regards to Co-operation
I'd like to again thank Celticfury for posting his views on events. I'd also like to ask the LMP and Joker to publically state their personal views on how england should handle itself in the present and future. I would like to have things laid out so compromises can be sought initially instead of people decrying their ideas later and being publically seen as reactionary.
Sorry about missing out the consortium. I included it in the following tally post, i just must have been tired.
Interesting that you hate Anarchy even if the outcome would make up the deficiant caused by the turns of no production. I take it you are the type of person who likes to see constant growth as it feels like it's more powerful and more dependable, even if statistically other options provide better economy?
Congratulations on being the Governer of England. The homeland has the best production and natural defence so it should be the best place to try and build some wonders. It probably needs a extra naval unit to fend of the roman tireme but thats it.
I only have governership of France, Which is RY and Whosit-Antium (you need to pick a city whosit or we'll do it for you! you can't escape!) but don't worry Ravus-York will be getting a market ASAP to reap the benifits from the religious shrine.
In Regards to Celticfury
Thanks for the reply.
The Egyptians and Vikings seem to be the consensus. The Egyptians as the most likely prospect for friendship and the vikings from wanting to divide them from russia.
I actually wondered about a Indpendent Party being founded if you get annoyed at people asking/begging/bribing you to join them.
Indepents
The Party joins no coalitions and the members vote for other parties. It is merely a havan for those who wish to remain outside of the present power struggles.
something like that.
In Regards to WIM
Looks like we are joint ministers of peace and foriegn affairs
I'll probably focus mainly on keeping the peace in internal disputes, i assume you will try to keep the peace in forign affairs more often including the romans and russians etc.On the War
As long as you don't throw us a curveball it would have been stategically
Antium provides a perfect defensive base to guard the southern pass while the north is mopped up. I take it you are also going to show events so that the romans would not except peace? normally if you hurt the AI enough the war wearyness sticks around. So if you see a huge army approaching then you can still get peace with them giving you stuff because of the way the coding works.Once the elections are over the Whosit will probably ask for a break down of forces again like you did when the romans declared. (x archers in england y axemen in france etc)
In Regards to Arya
Arya, are you are aware that historically public attempts to force someone out of a group by outside forces normally causes those groups to rally together?
I am honestly curious, as it seems there isn't much of a reason apart from a throw-away comment. Either this is the 'straw that broke the camels back' or ilduce is being used as a scapegoat. As a Minister of Peace it would be nice to have your public statement on the matter so that you aren't labeled as a fanatic or a terrorist again. all we have so far are the quotes below. Also refer to the matter on co-operation below
The statement of decrying Ilduce for not treating it like a game when you yourself are getting emotionally invested in a throwaway comment is a bit hypocritical. Can you state why throwing all your political might at screwing ilduce is in the best interests of england?
Quote from Nukeknockout stating that it was you he didn't trust not to backstab or sabotage.
Quote from Ilduce as a throwaway comment. Most likely talking about how Arya soldiers are not a good way to protect from Arya
Quote from Arya in his response.
-
In Regards to Co-operation
I'd like to again thank Celticfury for posting his views on events. I'd also like to ask the LMP and Joker to publically state their personal views on how england should handle itself in the present and future. I would like to have things laid out so compromises can be sought initially instead of people decrying their ideas later and being publically seen as reactionary.
Lighthearter
President of the United States
Elections close at 8:00 sharp.
I'll be putting my new speech recognition software to the test in a few hours when I get home by giving you guys a narrative update - stay tuned.
(Yes, MN, you brought it on.
)
- Lighthearter
I'll be putting my new speech recognition software to the test in a few hours when I get home by giving you guys a narrative update - stay tuned.
(Yes, MN, you brought it on.
)- Lighthearter
ilduce349
(Financial, Philo)
Its ok, just wanted to make sure you were aware of our existence.
Not necessarily. Allthough it does help for production. The new civics normally have (not counting State Property, which is bs as it should have the highest upkeep of the economic civics) a higher up keep then the old civics. Meaning a worse economy. Also, in the past going into anarchy mid-way through building wonders has resulted in me loosing that wonder. I only change civics if:
1. I am in a golden age
2. I will be changing 3 or more civcis
I should probably try OR in a game, its something I have never done. But doesn't the 25% production count only towards buildings, or do wonders count?
I demand we call it premiership(the English and Canadian equivalent to governor), I demand that we start production of the AP and the SP in our two best production cities. I will also ask to see how many triremes we already have to see if I really need to build one. Thanks for reminding me about those boats, I almost forgot.
Does it already have the shrine? We need to start building missionaries.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
Your comments about AP and SP will be taken into consideration, along with your request to spam missionaries. However, if the general public (most of the politicians here) disagrees with that, it may not happen.
I'm sorry to say that I can't under-represent everybody else because of one person.
I'm sorry to say that I can't under-represent everybody else because of one person.
Cull
Big Daddy
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2010
- Messages
- 2,838
AP-No
SP-Yes, assuming high enough hammer city(Antium?)
Spam Missionaries- Not the extent that I think ilduce is thinking of. Yes, we want Christianity to spread, but not limit infrastructure, military, or workers/settlers.
Are in we OR right now BTW? I think we are, just want to check.
SP-Yes, assuming high enough hammer city(Antium?)
Spam Missionaries- Not the extent that I think ilduce is thinking of. Yes, we want Christianity to spread, but not limit infrastructure, military, or workers/settlers.
Are in we OR right now BTW? I think we are, just want to check.
Whosit
Entropic Knight
A higher civic upkeep does not automatically mean a worse economy. At least, not in my games. However, since you have made it quite clear that you define having the slider any less than 100% at all times to be a "bad economy," I assume that's where you're coming from.
Wonders count as buildings, so they gain the benefit of Organized Religion. OR also means that you don't have to spend time building Monasteries to build Missionaries.
Our Wonders: The Apostolic Palace could have some uses, but I am absolutely opposed to building the Shwedagon Paya. All it does is unlock all the religious civics, which basically means that we could get Free Religion a bit earlier. That's a nice civic, yes, but there are two reasons why I don't feel it's worth building a Wonder just to get Free Religion (or perhaps Ilduce is gunning for Pacifism, which we'd enable anyway by pursuing Liberalism, and a civic that I also oppose).
1) Adopting FR means we have no state religion. Our plan to befriend Egypt and the Vikings by converting them to Christianity will be useless if we're not Christian, ourselves. We weren't particularly liked when we lacked a State Religion, either, so we won't win points that way, either.
2) Low benefits of FR at this point: We don't have enough religions to get any benefit from the "+1 happy per religion in a city" FR provides, and while it does also have a fairly strong +10% science in all cities, most of our cities are too underdeveloped for that to have much of an impact. A city needs to be producing 10 beakers just for 10% to have an effect, and that will be only 1 extra beaker. Then you need 20, 30, and so on. Only a couple of our cities are likely to see a benefit from that now, so it's not worth it in that regard yet.
3) OK, I have a third reason. Opportunity costs. Yes, we have Gold, which speeds up the Shwedagon Paya. However, since I see little value in what this Wonder brings us anyway, those hammers could be better spent on something that will provide greater benefit, such as the Great Library, which will provide 6 beakers and 8 Scientist Great People Points. We don't need more Great Prophets any more. We don't have a religion economy going, and we're not going to develop one, either.
The AP, I could go along with, since it has some diplomatic benefits if we can spread Christianity around to most of our neighbors, but not the SP.
Edit: Ohh, I disagree with Cull, eh? Also, we are in Theocracy.
Wonders count as buildings, so they gain the benefit of Organized Religion. OR also means that you don't have to spend time building Monasteries to build Missionaries.
Our Wonders: The Apostolic Palace could have some uses, but I am absolutely opposed to building the Shwedagon Paya. All it does is unlock all the religious civics, which basically means that we could get Free Religion a bit earlier. That's a nice civic, yes, but there are two reasons why I don't feel it's worth building a Wonder just to get Free Religion (or perhaps Ilduce is gunning for Pacifism, which we'd enable anyway by pursuing Liberalism, and a civic that I also oppose).
1) Adopting FR means we have no state religion. Our plan to befriend Egypt and the Vikings by converting them to Christianity will be useless if we're not Christian, ourselves. We weren't particularly liked when we lacked a State Religion, either, so we won't win points that way, either.
2) Low benefits of FR at this point: We don't have enough religions to get any benefit from the "+1 happy per religion in a city" FR provides, and while it does also have a fairly strong +10% science in all cities, most of our cities are too underdeveloped for that to have much of an impact. A city needs to be producing 10 beakers just for 10% to have an effect, and that will be only 1 extra beaker. Then you need 20, 30, and so on. Only a couple of our cities are likely to see a benefit from that now, so it's not worth it in that regard yet.
3) OK, I have a third reason. Opportunity costs. Yes, we have Gold, which speeds up the Shwedagon Paya. However, since I see little value in what this Wonder brings us anyway, those hammers could be better spent on something that will provide greater benefit, such as the Great Library, which will provide 6 beakers and 8 Scientist Great People Points. We don't need more Great Prophets any more. We don't have a religion economy going, and we're not going to develop one, either.
The AP, I could go along with, since it has some diplomatic benefits if we can spread Christianity around to most of our neighbors, but not the SP.
Edit: Ohh, I disagree with Cull, eh? Also, we are in Theocracy.
Cull
Big Daddy
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2010
- Messages
- 2,838
I thought the SP was Spineral Minireet. If we're talking about the gold thingy, no way. We're wut, 4 techs away from Lib and Free Religion?
AP is meh. I don't want it due to the whole cheap vicitory with it, and since the only followers of the one true faith(OOC: Theocracy) our ourselves and the Mongols, I don't see any great use of it. Perhaps the hammer bonus to relgion buildings, but that's sort of a waste of 500(check) hammers.
I would take OR over Theo, but I can see the benefit of Theo ATM. However, with the shrine and lots of building needing to be built, going on a minor(MINOR) missionary spread, and havving half a forge for 50(need to check) hammers for a missionary is great IMO.
AP is meh. I don't want it due to the whole cheap vicitory with it, and since the only followers of the one true faith(OOC: Theocracy
) our ourselves and the Mongols, I don't see any great use of it. Perhaps the hammer bonus to relgion buildings, but that's sort of a waste of 500(check) hammers.I would take OR over Theo, but I can see the benefit of Theo ATM. However, with the shrine and lots of building needing to be built, going on a minor(MINOR) missionary spread, and havving half a forge for 50(need to check) hammers for a missionary is great IMO.
Yep wonders count
It's why i use OR myself. With buildings that cost around 10 turns you only shave off 2 turns or so... but with wonders that cost 40 or so turns you shave off 10 turns. We still have the Great Spy Cull running around, and we get another great prophet in 40 turns. They can give us a golden age when we need one in the future. So any civic changes could be timed for then.
What was the SP again? I know the AP is the Aposalistic Palace, which i agree on for it's political might and ability to give all temples and monastries +2 hammers.
The name means little to me. Well... names mean little as long as they have no negative connetations... If we called ourselves overlords or masters it might look bad publically
So the title would be premiership... and the adjective would be premiers e.g. Premier IlduceYou may have to get used to governer. I was trying to get the leader position labels 'leader' only and someone else (WIM i think) was trying to get them called prime minister. But in the end language is altered by the masses not individuals and the president description stuck.
The last i remember without glancing at notes is that we only built one tireme and managed to sink one of the roman tiremes. Wether our ship survived is another matter.
I... believed it did... But i think Lighthearter has moved the holy city back to RY so he may have taken it out. I'd have to check the next screen shot.
Theres no point with the missionaries untill either land travel or sea travel is made safe. So either the roman tiremes have to go or a passage to other lands needs to be hacked out in eastern europe. RY grows large quickly so they can be whipped as soon as travel is secured.
But yes RY has only 3 things it needs unless the war needs more support and thats Market/missionaries/library (opinions can be given if i've missed something but that seems to be all it needs now that antium can hold rome of by whipping a wall.)
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On religious diplomatic victory
We talked about this before Cull remember
we can't really win with the AP. To win all nations need to be part christian. Even if we rushed caravels and tried to put a missionaries in every american nation and asian nation, you know some nut is going to be theocratic without being christian (so we can't spread christianity to them) then we can't use it to win. (well, except by genociding that nation... but even i don't want to play like that, it's too one sided and wouldn't be fun.)What we can do is have lots of control over other nations. Voting power in the AP would be in level with the amount of christian believers in the lands. So we would have nearly double or triple of everyone we converted initially. The options we get would be things like "stop trading with Civ X", "force Civ Y to stop fighting england" and "Order all nations to decalre holy war on the infidel Civ Z".
As Russia is looking to stay buddist, making vikingdom have some christian worshipers could give us the option of forcing them into being our allies at a later date.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
I personally disagree with both the AP and SP. AP for Cull's reason, SP for Whosit's reason.
EDIT: However, if we are able to spread Ravusism far and wide enough, then it would be a good idea to build the AP.
EDIT 2: What do you guys thing about techs? I've been surfing around, but I can't find a tech tree screenshot taken in the AD times.
EDIT: However, if we are able to spread Ravusism far and wide enough, then it would be a good idea to build the AP.
EDIT 2: What do you guys thing about techs? I've been surfing around, but I can't find a tech tree screenshot taken in the AD times.
arya126
Squad Leader
No we are in theocracy. And i would like missionaries, but dont go overboard. Nothing like what Ilduce has been saying. Just one here, one there, if the cities are lacking something to build thats a priority like a market or worker or military.
Whats SP? I think i probbaly know it just dont remember. And Cull, please satte why you dont want the AP to be built? That would be allowing another country to build it, and then they would control the influence it supposedly gives (i dont know much about it, this is what i gather from comments).
Ilduce i find it funny that you are 'demanding' things when in reality you dont have the authority to do so. Jusy gave me a quick laugh there.
I vote for the Joker Party, and the LMP.
LH have you done the coin flips yet? Or has that plan been canceled?
My official statement Ravus, is that it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I do not consider myself a hypocrite, since Ilduce has never treated this like a game, and i have started to take this personally. I have at least tried to treat this like a game, but he treats this like im his mortal enemy.
OOC: And why do you keep bringing up this best interests of england crap? Its a game. Theres such a thing as fun, although this Ilduce issue isnt. I keep saying you guys take this stuff way too seriously. I stand by it.
IC: I will post a policy i want england to follow when the elections end.
Whats SP? I think i probbaly know it just dont remember. And Cull, please satte why you dont want the AP to be built? That would be allowing another country to build it, and then they would control the influence it supposedly gives (i dont know much about it, this is what i gather from comments).
Ilduce i find it funny that you are 'demanding' things when in reality you dont have the authority to do so. Jusy gave me a quick laugh there.
I vote for the Joker Party, and the LMP.
LH have you done the coin flips yet? Or has that plan been canceled?
My official statement Ravus, is that it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I do not consider myself a hypocrite, since Ilduce has never treated this like a game, and i have started to take this personally. I have at least tried to treat this like a game, but he treats this like im his mortal enemy.
OOC: And why do you keep bringing up this best interests of england crap? Its a game. Theres such a thing as fun, although this Ilduce issue isnt. I keep saying you guys take this stuff way too seriously. I stand by it.
IC: I will post a policy i want england to follow when the elections end.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
This is a Realpolitik game. What is RP without that "best of England" stuff that you call "crap"?
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
If Ravusism is spread to several other Civs, then I'll agree with AP. However, since it'll take at least one turnset to spread around Ravusism enough, I think that we should wait for next turnset to start building it. There's other, more important infrastructure that needs to be build first, IMHO.
Of course, if most people favor AP, then I'll go ahead and build it.
Any opinion on techs?
Of course, if most people favor AP, then I'll go ahead and build it.
Any opinion on techs?
Whosit
Entropic Knight
*Sigh* Did anyone read my post? SP = Shwedagon Paya, the Wonder that unlocks all the religion civics.
Arya: You're saying that we're taking this too seriously? Yes, this is a game, but this is also a role-playing game being acted out in Civ IV. Our roles are politicians/leaders of England, so to us, it makes sense to pursue actions that will improve England. Yet taking actions that will clearly be detrimental to our country makes no sense whether we are role-playing or if it's a game. If it's just a game, the goal is to win, and destroying your own country is counter-productive to winning. That is how I am approaching this game.
You've stated that your personal goal is "fun," but I've never been certain what you define as "fun."
Arya: You're saying that we're taking this too seriously? Yes, this is a game, but this is also a role-playing game being acted out in Civ IV. Our roles are politicians/leaders of England, so to us, it makes sense to pursue actions that will improve England. Yet taking actions that will clearly be detrimental to our country makes no sense whether we are role-playing or if it's a game. If it's just a game, the goal is to win, and destroying your own country is counter-productive to winning. That is how I am approaching this game.
You've stated that your personal goal is "fun," but I've never been certain what you define as "fun."
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