mechaerik
Tuturuu!
Damn. This looks bad. By 8 redcoats, do you mean 8 individuals or a total of 8 units?
Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR
- Thread starter Lighthearter
- Start date
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Lighthearter
President of the United States
In chat!
It means 8 individuals, Mech
-L
It means 8 individuals, Mech
-L
mechaerik
Tuturuu!
Well, better than 8 full units, but still. They have spilled English blood on British soil. THIS CANNOT, CANNOT I SAY, BE TOLERATED.
Lighthearter
President of the United States
mechaerik
Tuturuu!
Is New Horizons not British? Does it not fly our flag? Is it not on the Emerald Isle?
OOC: Ireland is technically part of the British Isles, is it not? Therefore I submit that all soil on said Island is British, even if the citizenship of the residents is not. The prosecution rests.
OOC: Ireland is technically part of the British Isles, is it not? Therefore I submit that all soil on said Island is British, even if the citizenship of the residents is not. The prosecution rests.
arya126
Squad Leader
Dont worry mech. I support you, somewhat. But annexation in the international recognition sense will not come without a fight.
Twinkletoes89
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2010
- Messages
- 174
sigh... whatever happened to the art of diplomacy...
[CLOSED] Confound it Arya! You should have just made them sign a treaty granting them independence, with additional clauses that provide unlimited trade between England and Ireland, no border restrictions between the two, with England reserving the right to intervene if needed in Ireland (Basically vassalizing ingame). If we did so, they would have consented, and we would have de facto control of the Emerald Isle (within 5 sets, our culture will probably swallow up them). But you HAD to press for annexation... And now we've passed the point of no return...[/CLOSED]
Well, now that I've gotten that out of my system... We need to restore order fast. More later
Well, now that I've gotten that out of my system... We need to restore order fast. More later
mechaerik
Tuturuu!
[closed]Alright, some sort of plan is needed to handle the Irish Rebellion. Hearts and minds, people, hearts and minds. We must court the hearts and minds of the people on Ireland, make them accept the fact that they are British. We cannot allow the rebellion to spiral out of control, we must act decisively and effectively.
On that note, I would like to know about Athers; he seems to be angry. I agree that the talks were ill-handled, but we need him.[/closed]
On that note, I would like to know about Athers; he seems to be angry. I agree that the talks were ill-handled, but we need him.[/closed]
Lighthearter
President of the United States
Unlikely. LH has talked to me a bit about the KRF's tactics, exactly who trains them, and the support they enjoy amongst the populace(yay forget-me-drugs from today's oral surgery) and I don't see any way to restore order with killing every civvie in Ireland.
That said, we can always hope they'll be open to actual negotiations in 30 or so turns.
EDIT - Nuke, you logged in as me!
-L
That said, we can always hope they'll be open to actual negotiations in 30 or so turns.
EDIT - Nuke, you logged in as me!
-L
Nukeknockout
Rusty Hinge
crap. I just realized that. and I did NOT log in as you, you didn't log out on my machine!
arya126
Squad Leader
Stop complaining. I have a plan. I just dont want to share it. LH knows what i am talking about i think. It has to pass by him before it can be posted, and it wont be finished for a day or two at least.
mechaerik
Tuturuu!
[closed]Nuke's message seems... bad. Who does train them?
Also, I absolutely refuse to go killing every civilian there. They are British, and must be afforded the rights that that entails, despite the fact that they have forgot the allegiance that they owe. And I do hope this plan works. Ireland is finally ours again; I don't wish to see it burned. With that note, I would like to say I volunteer for any tasks that must be done in Ireland.[/closed]
Also, I absolutely refuse to go killing every civilian there. They are British, and must be afforded the rights that that entails, despite the fact that they have forgot the allegiance that they owe. And I do hope this plan works. Ireland is finally ours again; I don't wish to see it burned. With that note, I would like to say I volunteer for any tasks that must be done in Ireland.[/closed]
Burning Russian Cities is acceptable, although my enthusiasm is dwindling. However slaughtering british civilians is beyond the pail. The best option I can see is our imidiate withdrawl from Ireland.
DT
Crusader for the Cause
DT
Crusader for the Cause
Whosit
Entropic Knight
No disrespect meant, Arya, but perhaps you should at least run it by members in your administration? Your last plan didn't seem to work out so well.
mechaerik
Tuturuu!
WITHDRAW!?!
Even if you believe that Ireland is not rightfully ours, that sets a REALLY bad precedent. Any hint of unrest and we withdraw from that territory? If Rome started an armed insurrection, would we simply withdraw from Rome? No. We would fight for it if necessary.
And now, it is more necessary than ever. Unlike the Romans, the so-called "Irish" are nothing more than the long lost children of our glorious Empire. We must work to remind them of their motherland. I don't particularly want to fight them, but if they continue on their unlawful rebellion, we may have to. But force should be a last resort. We must reach out to them, remind them of their allegiance, and make them want us there.
Even if you believe that Ireland is not rightfully ours, that sets a REALLY bad precedent. Any hint of unrest and we withdraw from that territory? If Rome started an armed insurrection, would we simply withdraw from Rome? No. We would fight for it if necessary.
And now, it is more necessary than ever. Unlike the Romans, the so-called "Irish" are nothing more than the long lost children of our glorious Empire. We must work to remind them of their motherland. I don't particularly want to fight them, but if they continue on their unlawful rebellion, we may have to. But force should be a last resort. We must reach out to them, remind them of their allegiance, and make them want us there.
*sigh* Okay here is my initial response to this political SNAFU
The Irish Dilemma
Okay for a start. The killing of our 8 riflemen in Occupied Ireland is regrettable. It is the start of what could be a long road of aggression on both sides. When the so called liberating English force became occupiers instead of liberators it was a sign for the Khan Resistance Front to spring back into action. While regretable and annoying you don't want to know what i had to offer to the Khan to get him to limit targets to military personal only. They could have been bombing civillians instead of occupation troops. They also agreed not to call for international Aid From the Vikings or the Arabs. Instead we just have the KRF targeting our military... Considering we've spent so long training them it seems annoying that now they are against us.
The Lost Options
Mainly I am annoyed at the loss. Did anyone, for a single second, consider what the future of the Irish forces would be apart from "liberation" or "annexation"? We've spent years training the KRF and supplying them. I've already revealed to some members of the political parties that it was myself that arranged for Catherine to disappear so she could recover and start to make herself a political player instead of a "tool". Then she just HAPPENS to turn up as the second in command to the KRF?
Can no one else see the lost possibility here? What was a Restistance force going to do once peace is secured in their homeland? Oh wait... They have a russian helping them... oh wait... her land is ruled over by a crazy immortal who has gone insane and allows his people to suffer while bowing to Arabian Devils so that he can get "revenge" upon England...
Am I really the only one that realises peace with Ireland would have changed the "Khan Resistance Front" into the "Catherine Resistance Front" and may eventually have liberated Russia into a Respectable Society? At the least it would have kept them occupied while we rebuilt after the war.
The Solutions
The Irish will except being British but not English. They parted from the English people millenia ago to settle on the Other British Isle. For two nations to become one another does not annex the other. That is one nation eating the other. They would have accepted an Alliance which would be exactly the same as them being english. They just get to fly their own colours. Yes logically we are the stronger of the partnership, we could have bargained them down to vassalage for submission or just a defensive pact and waited for our culture to envelope the Irish enough that they'd WANT to be English. But politically all we had to do was give them a concession for their honour and they would join us willingly.
This is still salvageable without war. A Simple Apology and a humble declaration that we have tarnished our own honour by acting so overaggressive would bring them back to the bargaining table. We don't need to withdraw. We don't need to fight a people that don't want us there. Merely apologise. A simple concession can move mountains in political circles.
- Ravus, Christian Pope
I hope people understand my plea and how much we have lost. This whole thing reeks of a set up that would have ushered a new Allied Britain into a golden age and we can still reach that. I wish to be generous to allies and ruthless to enemies. Not the other way around.
The Irish Dilemma
Okay for a start. The killing of our 8 riflemen in Occupied Ireland is regrettable. It is the start of what could be a long road of aggression on both sides. When the so called liberating English force became occupiers instead of liberators it was a sign for the Khan Resistance Front to spring back into action. While regretable and annoying you don't want to know what i had to offer to the Khan to get him to limit targets to military personal only. They could have been bombing civillians instead of occupation troops. They also agreed not to call for international Aid From the Vikings or the Arabs. Instead we just have the KRF targeting our military... Considering we've spent so long training them it seems annoying that now they are against us.
The Lost Options
Mainly I am annoyed at the loss. Did anyone, for a single second, consider what the future of the Irish forces would be apart from "liberation" or "annexation"? We've spent years training the KRF and supplying them. I've already revealed to some members of the political parties that it was myself that arranged for Catherine to disappear so she could recover and start to make herself a political player instead of a "tool". Then she just HAPPENS to turn up as the second in command to the KRF?
Can no one else see the lost possibility here? What was a Restistance force going to do once peace is secured in their homeland? Oh wait... They have a russian helping them... oh wait... her land is ruled over by a crazy immortal who has gone insane and allows his people to suffer while bowing to Arabian Devils so that he can get "revenge" upon England...
Am I really the only one that realises peace with Ireland would have changed the "Khan Resistance Front" into the "Catherine Resistance Front" and may eventually have liberated Russia into a Respectable Society? At the least it would have kept them occupied while we rebuilt after the war.
The Solutions
The Irish will except being British but not English. They parted from the English people millenia ago to settle on the Other British Isle. For two nations to become one another does not annex the other. That is one nation eating the other. They would have accepted an Alliance which would be exactly the same as them being english. They just get to fly their own colours. Yes logically we are the stronger of the partnership, we could have bargained them down to vassalage for submission or just a defensive pact and waited for our culture to envelope the Irish enough that they'd WANT to be English. But politically all we had to do was give them a concession for their honour and they would join us willingly.
This is still salvageable without war. A Simple Apology and a humble declaration that we have tarnished our own honour by acting so overaggressive would bring them back to the bargaining table. We don't need to withdraw. We don't need to fight a people that don't want us there. Merely apologise. A simple concession can move mountains in political circles.
- Ravus, Christian Pope
I hope people understand my plea and how much we have lost. This whole thing reeks of a set up that would have ushered a new Allied Britain into a golden age and we can still reach that. I wish to be generous to allies and ruthless to enemies. Not the other way around.
Twinkletoes89
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2010
- Messages
- 174
My proposed solution is this.
We offer to forget everything that has happened in the last few days. The Redcoat issue and arya's perceived 'rudeness'. We sit down again and make them a proper offer which reassures their concerns and also satisfies the KFF.
What some of you need to realise that even a grateful independent Ireland is better than this situation. How many wars do you want to fight at once?
I am fully behind Pope Ravus in this, and I urge arya to see sense and come back to the negotiating table instead of putting on the war paint and gearing up for an incredible stupid and ultimately futile attempt at annexation.
Also, keeping plans secret was a failure last time, do you really want to do it again?
We offer to forget everything that has happened in the last few days. The Redcoat issue and arya's perceived 'rudeness'. We sit down again and make them a proper offer which reassures their concerns and also satisfies the KFF.
What some of you need to realise that even a grateful independent Ireland is better than this situation. How many wars do you want to fight at once?
I am fully behind Pope Ravus in this, and I urge arya to see sense and come back to the negotiating table instead of putting on the war paint and gearing up for an incredible stupid and ultimately futile attempt at annexation.
Also, keeping plans secret was a failure last time, do you really want to do it again?
I'm with ravus as well. I loved the 'become a player, not a tool' thing he did to cathy, and I hate to see such excellent political moves wasted. I completely support an apology and an offer to sit down and hold a sensible negotiation, rather than stick to the current disaster. It could hardly be any worse unless we deliberately tried to make it so, or failed to learn from what happened here.
DT
Political Apologies Necesary
DT
Political Apologies Necesary
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