Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

[MathNerd]

I wasn't meaning to mock you... sorry about that.

I was attempting to make a point about how I could say the same things for Germany as you did Italy.

Anyway, plan sent to LH.

EDIT: @Arya - First: We've already REXed way too much, and we have our economy to show for it. We CANNOT afford any more turns in war than we must, and the German commerce cities will allow us to build up our economy pretty quickly. Peter is almost at Nationalism, and we got Construction not too long ago. Think about that.

 

[arya126]

Yeah ive thought about that. But we could get back on track faster, and emerge with a much better economy than before, if we take more l;and in this war, then spam workers once its over, and improve all of it at once. Also, the forbidden palace, versailles, and courthouses in every city, can be built to reduce maintenence and get us back on track faster. Hoping the romans go on tearing the russians apart and hope they take moscow will only help us get back up to par.

The more land we take now, the more land we will have to contribute to the economy later. If your so worried about it, launch continual offensives once you reach prefered troops strength that will (IC) keep down troop levels and keep the gold spent on military in check. Maybe use a city like RY to spam workers as well, so that we can improve our economy RIGHT NOW enough so that it can keep up with the war longer.

 

[Cull]

We're at the moment where that doesn't really work. During Ravus, and my (horrible) term that would be worked, but our economy is at the point I think(need PICS) that any more than the two in Germany will have such a negative impact taht the uphill is even harder.

 

[MathNerd]

Too much expansion kills the economy, unlike in Civ 3. Every city we have costs more than the last, and it takes a lot to maintain a city. Every new city we build MUST contribute greatly like Neo and Cumae do.

X-Post, and I agree completely.

 

[arya126]

The way you guys are on track to try and fix the economy, that may be true. But if you spammed workers like crazy until you got 25+ of them, then you could get the economy back on its feet in no time, and disband most of the workers afterwards to save on paying for them. While the workers are working, we would build libraries, banks, markets, grocers, universities, everything that could help the economy. I think if we put some effort into it, the economy could be much better than it was in 2 admins or less, and we would have potential for far more otherwise. Then we can go on to use the cities wqe captured to help better us in the long run.

 

[MathNerd]

There's a point at which every tile in the BFC is improved. So no, 25 workers could not save an empire's economy.

Any more cities we have will not be able to pay back for themselves, especially cities as far as Rome.

 

[arya126]

Too much expansion kills the economy, unlike in Civ 3. Every city we have costs more than the last, and it takes a lot to maintain a city. Every new city we build MUST contribute greatly like Neo and Cumae do.

X-Post, and I agree completely.

Courthouses, the forbidden palace, versailles. All will help with maintenance.

 

[MathNerd]

Help, but don't fix.

 

[Sonereal]

This still makes no sense, Why dont we just TAKE italy, and use it ourselvelves?

My plan was to take north italy (settia), then quickly seize medialanum which is east of the alps, then we swing north to take germany. Then we can choose if its worth it to make peace, or to take rome then push on east.

Italy would be too costly to deal with right now. Taking Germany is going to be expensive as-is. Yes, courthouses and the FP will surely reduce the costs but it'll take a while to get them online and in that time, our economy would be stifling under the weight of holding Italy and Germany. Razing Italy might give us a nice influx of cash without any of the costs of holding it.

Trust me, I would've pushed the Romans out of Italy and Germany and right up against the Russian bear if I could but in this case, we are in bad shape. England has fallen behind greatly in the technology department. What are we going to do if Russia invades? Use muskets against rifles and trebuchets against artillery?

We already won the war. Taking Germany would be the icing on the cake but taking Italy would be...well....too much icing.

Yeah ive thought about that. But we could get back on track faster, and emerge with a much better economy than before, if we take more l;and in this war, then spam workers once its over, and improve all of it at once. Also, the forbidden palace, versailles, and courthouses in every city, can be built to reduce maintenence and get us back on track faster. Hoping the romans go on tearing the russians apart and hope they take moscow will only help us get back up to par.

Versailles is way to expensive to build at any rate. You need Divine Right to get (a dead-end religious tech) and 800 hammers. Divine Right isn't something we're aiming for.

FP shouldn't be built yet. London is still relatively close to all our holdings.

 

[arya126]

Help, but don't fix.

Then we beeline communism for the state property civic. We will be able to hold on until then. And thgose buildings help alot when 25 workers are spamming cottages and other stuff, plus we are building buildings like banks, universities, grocers, and markets to help out with gold and science sliders.

We might not be at 90-100 science sliders, but we will be able to break even at 70-80 by the time its over.

 

[MathNerd]

Wait for Communism? Are you crazy!?!?

We can't wait!!!

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OOC: What victory type do you see us getting to? I can't really imagine anything that has a reasonable chance, maybe space if we're REALLY lucky.

 

[Sonereal]

Then we beeline communism for the state property civic. We will be able to hold on until then. And thgose buildings help alot when 25 workers are spamming cottages and other stuff, plus we are building buildings like banks, universities, grocers, and markets to help out with gold and science sliders.

We might not be at 90-100 science sliders, but we will be able to break even at 70-80 by the time its over.

Then we'll change our name to Oceania.

Again, beelining SP might work but at the cost of possibly missing out on very important techs. Given that, if handled effectively, the economy will be repaired even given our current civics, I don't see beelining as something we should do at the moment.

Not to mention the fact that we're far away from Communism at the moment. At this rate, by the time we reach it, Peter will be building bombers.

 

[arya126]

Italy would be too costly to deal with right now. Taking Germany is going to be expensive as-is. Yes, courthouses and the FP will surely reduce the costs but it'll take a while to get them online and in that time, our economy would be stifling under the weight of holding Italy and Germany. Razing Italy might give us a nice influx of cash without any of the costs of holding it.

Trust me, I would've pushed the Romans out of Italy and Germany and right up against the Russian bear if I could but in this case, we are in bad shape. England has fallen behind greatly in the technology department. What are we going to do if Russia invades? Use muskets against rifles and trebuchets against artillery?

We already won the war. Taking Germany would be the icing on the cake but taking Italy would be...well....too much icing.



Versailles is way to expensive to build at any rate. You need Divine Right to get (a dead-end religious tech) and 800 hammers. Divine Right isn't something we're aiming for.

FP shouldn't be built yet. London is still relatively close to all our holdings.

There is no such think as too much icing to me.

We would catch up in tech. If we had to, im sure we could use this espionage stuff in BTS to ctach up eventually. Whether we do this my way or not, no matter what way we choose, it will take a long time to catch up in tech unless we get a miracle. I would guess at 3-4 admins at the very least.

But if we hold italy after the influx of cash, we can use that cash/gold to help get it up and running again and to catch up. In the long run, it will help us.

 

[MathNerd]

The problem is this: taking Italy will result in us LOSING cash, not GAINING it.

 

[mechaerik]

I said it before and Ill say it again: we have to move the capital to the mainland.

 

[Sonereal]

We would catch up in tech. If we had to, im sure we could use this espionage stuff in BTS to ctach up eventually. Whether we do this my way or not, no matter what way we choose, it will take a long time to catch up in tech unless we get a miracle. I would guess at 3-4 admins at the very least.

We can't use espionage effectively yet. Do we even have jails and other important buildings for espionage? It's expensive to steal techs and would take a few turnsets of focusing on one civilization to get the points we need if we don't turn up the slider which begs the question as to why we don't simply boost the research slider.

But if we hold italy after the influx of cash, we can use that cash/gold to help get it up and running again and to catch up. In the long run, it will help us.

Or we use that cash/gold to help us to get the rest of the Empire up to speed at a faster rate than if we hold Italy.

 

[MathNerd]

I agree with Mech, but moving the capital is risky business. I've never done it in a serious game (well, serious by Ilduce's standards ), so I have no idea how to efficiently move a capital. Unless somebody considers themselves good at this, I prefer to leave such a difficult task to the next administration to be done after our economy is back in a better place.

 

[arya126]

Wait for Communism? Are you crazy!?!?

We can't wait!!!

-----

OOC: What victory type do you see us getting to? I can't really imagine anything that has a reasonable chance, maybe space if we're REALLY lucky.

While we wait, we would do other things to help, like building the buildings i mentioned, and spamming workers.

Victory type-Im hoping for a late game domination, maybe space race. Diplomatic if we can make frinds with asia and the new world. I dont RP is meant to aim for victory though, i think its just meant to have fun, and try to survive what the GM throws at you. I would consider survival to be success to be honest.

Then we'll change our name to Oceania.

Again, beelining SP might work but at the cost of possibly missing out on very important techs. Given that, if handled effectively, the economy will be repaired even given our current civics, I don't see beelining as something we should do at the moment.

Not to mention the fact that we're far away from Communism at the moment. At this rate, by the time we reach it, Peter will be building bombers.

Where did oceania come from? I didnt mention it...

Neither do I, i was just throwing that out there. We should still adopt state property as soon as we get communism. It will help our economy ALOT.

 

[arya126]

I said it before and Ill say it again: we have to move the capital to the mainland.

No thank you, but i dont remember you ever saying that. Sorry, but i dont.

I think our capital is fine where its at right now. London is our best city. MAYBE antium could become our capital, since it and RY seem to be the center of our empire (especially if we keep expanding into the rest of europe evetually), it will even out maintenence.

But otherwise, i would prefer to keep our capital as london. Especially as i have never moved a capital.

 

[Sonereal]

Where did oceania come from? I didnt mention it...

Neither do I, i was just throwing that out there. We should still adopt state property as soon as we get communism. It will help our economy ALOT.

It is easily the best econ civic in the game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#The_world_in_1984