Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

[arya126]

How do i have the most to lose? Personally i think i have the least to lose, as my reputation has gone the drain and hasnt recovered too much since. And i would have nothing to gain by it, nor would england.

Also sharpeye, my bad. I mistook your post to be MN's for some reason. I dont think i properly looked at the name of the perosn who wrote the post. My apologies.

And fargle you certainly said i was the most likely to be accused of treason, which suggests that you are implying i have commtted treason. This is wrong, as:
1. I have done no such thing
2. Immortals cannot committ treason. There is no out of bounds for immortals, although there are still repercussiaons for actions, even if they arent from the 'law'.

 

[Cull]

Immortals can commit treason, but whatever.

Arya, contrary to what you might believe, you are gaining support in some circles.

 

[arya126]

Really? Well thats a surprise....I would appreciate it if you would elaborate on that, but ill take what i can get.

And i guess it depends on what you call treason. Sabotage cannot be considered treason, because it is an official opposition option for members of the government that are not part of the coalition in office at the time, and actually lawful to anyone in governemnt. Just as an armed rebellion is lawful. The only way treason could be committed, was if EP was issued to somebody, and they made it treason for those things to happen, since they would then have the power to inflict punishment upon those who so it.

Also, out of curiousity, would anybody be interested in creating a constituation once we get the tech? I think LH may have banned this in the past, but i dont remember clearly, so i am bringing it up again in an organized fashion. Once we research the tech, LH will choose 4 people from among the parties/coalitions in addition to the president to convene in either a chatrrom or PMs (maybe a social group?) and work together on a set of basic principles of our nation (nothing that has to do with the presidential/voting government setup of course). This would entail things for flavor such as a bill of rights or other things like that. Maybe even setup a treason/treason court system, where people who have concrete evidence against them can be tried for treason, and they or their party can be penalized for it if convicted. For example, maybe you only get one vote in the next election instead of 2, or you are prevented form commiting any opposition actions, or your party cant join a coalition in the next election. Something along those lines.

If LH is against this, i apologize for bringing it up. Its just a thought that crossed my mind.

 

[Aysee]

What circles? OOC or IC? The switching back and forth is starting to confuse me...

@Arya: IIRC, the revolter in the Balkans has ALL the Balkans, and I think that Russia is making some headway in the east. If Russia takes the Ukraine and we take Germany, Rome will definitely be in the position to capitulate. In that case, we'll need to pull off peace deals fast enough before they do. If the east stays intact, then so what? It'll be cut off from the main empire and will be largely ineffective. All we have to do is build up after a few centuries and take it.

 

[Cull]

No Constitution. Please.

And OOC and IC, and my lips are sealed.

 

[Captain Fargle]

The reason I said you were the most likely to be accused of treason is your history, particularly the sabotage attempt on Stonehenge. I was not implying that you have committed treason but that if the question of treason came up you would be the Prime Suspect because of your history of sabotage and previous un-cooperativeness with opposing administrations. It's very simple, if a crime has been committed, the first suspect will always be the person who has a history of criminal acts.

The reason I said you had the most to lose was the fact that you are making a noted effort to recover your reputation and standing among the government and being convicted would destroy that effort and probably any most future efforts as well. If it was anyone else it wouldn't hurt them as much because they're not currently undertaking a mission to prove themselves to the collective group.

Does that explain it?

EDIT: I thought the Balkan rebels only managed to take the two cities in Greece?

 

[arya126]

Aysee it wont be cut off. The city medialanum near the eastern edge of the alps would connect italy to the rest of the empire. And i think germany only has 2 cities (maybe 3), and another city or 2 is needed to control the balkans. If rome makes peace with either us or russia, it is surely doomed unless we convince them to make peace too.

And how do you suggest we convince the russians to make peace with rome? Our gold wont be enarly enough. They have every tech we have and more. What would we give?

And unless your piece of eastern front news comes from LH, i dont think tis true. The romans just retook the ukraine, and i believe their armies are still big enbough to threaten moscow itself.

 

[arya126]

No Constitution. Please.

And OOC and IC, and my lips are sealed.

It would be purely IC. Dont take this as me pushing for it, i just want to make sure its clear on what im suggesting. Maybe all former presidents would convene. Just ideas coming as i write.

 

[Aysee]

If that's true, then the power balance isn't enough to make them capitulate yet. If they have a huge army, let them throw them against Peter. It'll weaken both of them and might make Peter give peace a chance.

If Italy will still be linked, then the logical conclusion is to take Mediolaudnam. If we wait long enough, there just might be enough trouble on the Eastern front that Rome would take away troops there, since Russia's a more eminent threat. Then, all that's left is to take the three cities, rebuild, and take Italy or the Ukraine or whatever.

 

[arya126]

The above headline screamed out from almost every English news publication earlier today as it became apparent that Rome has lost the valuable Alps city beyond hope of recovery.

In the Balkans, the union of rebels by the name of Germany under the leadership of a man called Frederick has risen up, intent on expelling the Romans. Russia has denounced this new nation as a terrorist organization.

These maps of Europe were released recently, showing the positions of the various forces and major cities:

(Imageshack is giving me problems - temporary delay on the rest)

The fall of Antium has left the bulk of our army ready to drive into either Germany or Italy - we could make great gains in either sector, but cannot commit to more then one offensive at a time.

And the Night Eagles have been recalled to Britain to find and rescue MathNerd from the Copperheads.

Whosit's quota have been reached - Antium and Ravus-York have been retaken. Now England waits anxiously to see if their president will relinquish his powers or not.

- Lighthearter

This is the most recent pic. I thought it would help in visualizing the situation. I was under the impression that the romans were about to take yakutz.

 

[Aysee]

Then my plan is changed, and much haste is now required:
Neo-Cumae (Russia make peace)-Medio

The Vikings have taken Ravenna? Hmm...

We won't have to worry about Italy for a while; take Medio, fortify Antium, and they won't be busting out for a while.

That's basically my plan. I'm hoping for the east to bog down, as that will buy us more time; if my ponderings are correct, Roman or Russian gains will be detrimental for us.
--------

Seeing the map, I say we need to put Carthage on top of us befriend list. They're probably developing into a regional power and they're close proximity means they'll be either a useful ally or a dangerous enemy. And Egypt sneaked a city into Greece! That's interesting, to say the least.

 

[arya126]

Actually, im surprised you havent seen this pic before. thsi was the latest 'update' that ended whosits term. And that egyptian city is in turkey, not greece.

I think we should raze circi after neapolis. It wont require many troops, or probably wont.

I still think we should ATTACK carthage, not BEFRIEND. That real estate would be VERY valuable...and there are elephants!

 

[Aysee]

Charismatic leaders are always heck to attack. They just grab promotion and promotion and promotion. I honestly think that we don't have enough military to attack Circce. We should just rebuild after taking Central Europe.

And even if we do attack Carthage, we should befriend them before. It'll keep them from attacking US, and if we get DoWed before, we just might get an ally.

And besides, once we conquer Carthage what's left? Rameses and Shaka. Rameses is fine, but if we destroy Carthage, there's nothing standing between Shaka and us. And I don't think he'll be content to be a peaceful neighbor either.

 

[Captain Fargle]

Wait, someone actually supports my plan of invading Carthage? Wow. I thought it had been completely shot down at this point. It is very interesting that Egypt managed to get a city in Turkey, if I'm reading the map correctly it looks like they built Alexandria where Troy was in our timeline. Or was Tory further north?

Either way it's still surprising, I would have expected either Rome or Arabia to control Turkey. Of course Saladin starts in Mecca which has ridiculously crap land so he might not be doing so well. Still, this might mean that Egypt is much larger than we anticipated and it may be in our best interests to befriend Rameses rather than Hannibal.

EDIT: I forgot about Shaka, fortunately if we wait long enough he'll probably fall far enough behind in tech that he won't be too much of threat. Shaka, like Monty, always tends to fall behind in my games. I actually think it's kind of shame that he always turns up on these maps but Zara doesn't. Zara's a much more interesting AI to play against.

 

[arya126]

Shaka is all the way in south east africa. It is likely that egypt will have split africa in half separating us two. There shouldnt be a problem there.

Like before, i oppose befriending people before we attack. Its called backstabbing, and while its normal in politics, in external politics i consider it cowardice. In internal its all part of the game.

I only suggested circi because that would be one less city we would ahve to worry about wheteher it ends up developing as a viking, russian, or roman city in the future.

 

[arya126]

I dont think arabia is on this map. And i actually had proposed attacking carthage quite a while ago, before you came. Troy should be half a tile north i think.

We should befriend india and egypt, and maybe someone either in the new world or the far east in the future. I have already stated this when foriegn affairs was a hot debate.

 

[Captain Fargle]

Circci is tiny and probably weakly garrisoned. With the Vikings having Ravenna I doubt we could even get to Circci before they capture it since I doubt Ragnar will like having a Roman city bisecting his territory.

Also, Egypt is actually very unlikely to be cutting Shaka off from North Africa considering that they've clearly put some effort into beating Julius and Saladin to Turkey. Shaka can expand quite well too, with the Ikhanda being able to keep his maintenance low an Shaka's tendency to utterly spam Impi.

 

[arya126]

2 things just crossed my mind:

Should we put another city in bewteen amsterdam, antium, cumae and neapolis? Theer semms to be a bit of unused land there.

Why are we able to see past the fog of war in the northeast corner? Is a galley over there? Or is it the lone warrior from siberia?

 

[Captain Fargle]

Arabia is most definitely on this map. LH has mentioned it several times and we've Saladin on the Diplo screen, we have the same relations bug with him that we do with Peter meaning we're at minus 11 with him. That means we definitely do not want to conquer Egypt as it would mean sharing borders with him and at minus 11 he'll probably DoW instantly.

EDIT: And yes another city in Denmark might be a good idea provided we can keep Ragnar off our backs. It will be under quite a bit of cultural pressure from Nidaros though.

 

[arya126]

I think a few chariots should be able to raze circi quickly if we wanted to.

I have seen egypt expand in all directions rapidly in almost all of my games. I think it cut south of carthage and split africa in half, expanded into the middle east and then into turkey, and probably controls the arabian peninsula and surrounding areas. Remember, egypt is in a war with shaka with india as an ally. At least they were when we got the last foriegn relations screen.