Realpolitik of the Smoky Skies - The Reboot

[Magnive]

Supporting the move to fast-trick the act and voting Aye to it.

 

[MiguelBazil]

I believe that the bill will get full support from the three parties. I vote aye.

 

[Melda]

((Cutting short the voting period on this because almost everyone has voted, in order to get through the busy legislative schedule.))

The vote for the War Powers Act 1822 closes after half a day.

I think the ayes have it.

The bill passes in the affirmative as it received more than the two-thirds support required to amend the Constitution of Pulias. Unless the Grand Majah opposes it on constitutional grounds the bill passes into law.

The vote tally is below:

Ayes | Noes | Abstains
Edwin Zachariah (Ind)|none|Heerlo (PAU)
Augustus (PIP)||
William Melda (PPP)||
Gustavus Gurra (PPP)||
Ernest Barnard (PAU)||
Albert Bazil (PIP)||

I would therefore request that the Constitution of Pulias be thusly amended with the insertion of this subsection 6 in Section 4, 'The Governments and Their Powers':

6) The legal use of force by the nation of Pulias, apart from those situations outlined in subsection 6(3), can only proceed once the following conditions are satisfied:

(a) if a vote on the Declaration of War motion satisfying all of the requirements of the Senate Voting Act 1822 enjoys the support of two-thirds of votes cast in the Senate;

(b) a Declaration of War referendum of all Pulian voters ((POPs and players, who each get one vote)) is then held and passed successfully by a majority of voters, in which the following conditions are satisfied:

(i) the wording of the referendum must be clear and unambiguous in its intent;

(ii) the result of the referendum is binding on the Government and the Senate; and

(iii) a Declaration of War referendum can only be held once a Declaration of War motion has successfully passed the Senate in accordance with subsection 6(1);​

(c) Authorisation of the use of force through the mechanisms in Section 6A and Section 6B can be excepted in the following circumstances:

(i) if a state of war already exists because another nation has declared war on Pulias; or

(ii) in the case of Luddites, because they are perpetually hostile forces who have declared their intent to wage war on all modern nation states, of which Pulias is a member.​

I sincerely thank all Government, Opposition and crossbench Senators for their contribution to the passage of this historic constitutional amendment.

Senator the Honourable William Melda
Acting Prime Minister of Pulias
President of the Pulias People's Party
Senator for Haven of Peace

 

[Melda]

The following bill is intended to remedy an issue perceived by His Majesty in the Orders Act 1822.

As I am not expecting this to be a contentious proposal, it is my intention to have this bill fast-tracked for voting consideration. In accordance with the standing orders I call upon the Leader of the Pulian Advancement Union, Senator the Honourable Ernest Barnard and the Imperator of the Pulian Imperial Party, Senator the Honourable Augustus to consent to the calling of an immediate vote without delay. Of course, if leave is not granted the debating and voting timeframes will be as per the standing orders.

In short, this bill calls for the construction of a difference engine in Coventry once work on the Coventry Hospital is concluded.

I commend the bill to the chamber, and I move that the bill be heard for the first time.

Orders Amendment Act 1822 - Long Title

An Act relating to the Amendment of the 1822 Orders to Remedy Perceived Issues in Coventry Infrastructure Planning​

Section 1: Short title

This Act may be cited as the Orders Amendment Act 1822.​

Section 2: Commencement

(1) All sections shall come into operation on the day on which this Act passes the Senate in the positive.​

Section 3: Overview

(1) This Act is intended to remedy perceived issues in Coventry infrastructure planning. It will ensure the construction of a difference engine once the Coventry Hospital is successfully completed.​

Section 4: Coventry

(1) The construction of the Coventry Hospital shall continue until its successful completion.

(2) Immediately upon the successful completion of the Coventry Hospital a difference engine shall be constructed in Coventry for the benefit of the people of Coventry and of all Pulias.​

Time left for debate: Ended due to passage of bill.

Senator the Honourable William Melda
Acting Prime Minister of Pulias
President of the Pulias People's Party
Senator for Haven of Peace

 

[Et_Absoluti]

Of course I vote aye.

 

[MiguelBazil]

((Since I don't know much about the buildings, units, and techs of this game mod, I can't do more than follow your opinions... I'll have to play a game or 2 to get a better feel)).

I vote yes on the proposed build.

 

[Magnive]

Supporting fast-tracking the bill, and voting Aye.

 

[Gurra09]

I am happy to see such broad support for the Department of Construction's Difference Engine Project which seeks to install these computing machines in all corners of Pulias to benefit the people in many ways.

Difference engines will help savants in their search for new knowledge, as these machines are capable of handling advanced computations with ease. They will also help us increase production while at the same time easing the workload for us humans - bringing about a new age of technology and freedom.

I vote aye for the Orders Amendment Act 1822.

 

[Melda]

I vote aye.

((This difference engine is what Charles Babbage was talking about in this news article.))

 

[Melda]

((Cutting short the voting period on this because we have a result and there is one more bill I want to put to the floor before the Great Time Jump occurs.))

The vote for the Orders Amendment Act 1822 closes after half a day.

I think the ayes have it.

Unless the Grand Majah opposes it on constitutional grounds the bill passes into law.

The vote tally is below:

Ayes | Noes | Abstains
Augustus (PIP)|none|Heerlo (PAU)
Albert Bazil (PIP)||Edwin Zachariah (Ind)
Ernest Barnard (PAU)||
Gustavus Gurra (PPP)||
William Melda (PPP)||

I sincerely thank my Coalition partners and the Official Opposition for their assistance in the passage of this legislation.

Senator the Honourable William Melda
Acting Prime Minister of Pulias
President of the Pulias People's Party
Senator for Haven of Peace

 

[Melda]

I have spoken much about this Government's democratisation agenda, about how we are seeking to invest more power in the people.

The following bill is intended to democratise the Constitution of Pulias by allowing the people of Pulias a direct say in any amendment processes of their Constitution.

In accordance with the standing orders if the Leader of the Pulian Advancement Union, Senator the Honourable Ernest Barnard and the Imperator of the Pulian Imperial Party, Senator the Honourable Augustus consent to the calling of an immediate vote without delay, I will support that measure. However if leave is not granted the debating and voting timeframes will be as per the standing orders.

As this bill seeks to make such a fundamental change to the existing state of affairs, the Government is seeking to pass this bill as a constitutional amendment, with the stricter legislative requirements that requires to pass it. If the bill does not enjoy the support of two-thirds of the Senate, this bill will be deemed to have failed.

At present, there exists only the convention that amendments to the Constitution of Pulias require the consent of two-thirds of the Senate. This bill is intended to codify that requirement into the constitution itself, as well as adding the provision that once such an amendment proposal passes the Senate it then is handed over to the people with a binding referendum which must be endorsed by more than fifty percent of all voters ((POPs and players each get one vote)).

I commend the bill to the chamber, and I move that the bill be heard for the first time.

Constitutional Amendment Act 1822 - Long Title

An Act relating to the Amendment of the Pulian Constitution to Allow Democratisation of the Constitutional Amendment Process​

Section 1: Short title

This Act may be cited as the Constitutional Amendment Act 1822.​

Section 2: Commencement

(1) All sections shall come into operation on the day on which this Act passes the Senate in the positive.​

Section 3: Interpretation

"constitution" refers to the Constitution of Pulias, promulgated by His Majesty the Grand High Exalted Majah of Pulias in 1800.

"constitutional amendment" refers to an any changes either proposed or made to the Constitution of Pulias.

"referendum" refers to a consultative process in which the voters of Pulias cast a 'yes' or 'no' vote on an issue put before them, in which the Government and Senate are bound by the outcome.

"Senator" refers to a legislative representative of the people of Pulias in the Senate.​

Section 4: Overview

(1) This Act will amend Section 4 of the Pulian Constitution (The Government and Their Powers) through the insertion of a new subsection 7. The voting processes for the consideration of this Act are pursuant to the standing orders established by the Senate Voting Act 1822, except in accordance with the established Constitutional Amendment conventions the Act will only be deemed to have passed in the affirmative if it enjoys the support of two-thirds of votes cast in the Senate.

(2) Changes to the Constitution of Pulias may only be accepted if the following actions occur, and only in this order:

(a) a Senator moves a Constitutional Amendment motion in the Senate;

(b) the Constitutional Amendment motion enjoys the support of two-thirds of votes cast in the Senate pursuant to the Senate Voting Act 1822; and

(c) a referendum is held in which a majority of all voters of Pulias consent to the proposed constitutional amendment:

(i) the wording of the referendum must be clear and unambiguous in its intent;

(ii) the result of the referendum is binding on the Government and the Senate; and

(iii) a referendum can only be held once a Constitutional Amendment motion has successfully passed the Senate in accordance with subsection 2(1).​

(3) A new subsection 7 of Section 4 of the Pulian Constitution will be created. The details of the text to be inserted here are contained within Section 4A and Section 4B of this Act.

(4) This Act in no way changes the provisions enacted by the War Powers Act 1822.​

Section 4A: Constitutional Amendment Motion

(1) The following text will be inserted into subsection 7 of Section 4 of the Pulian Constitution:

(a) "(7) Changes to the Constitution of Pulias may only proceed once the following conditions are satisfied:"; and

(b) "(a) if a vote on the Constitutional Amendment motion satisfying all of the requirements of the Senate Voting Act 1822 enjoys the support of two-thirds of votes cast in the Senate; and".​

Section 4B: Constitutional Amendment Referendum

(1) The following text will be inserted into subsection 7 of Section 4 of the Pulian Constitution:

(a) "(b) a Constitutional Amendment referendum of all Pulian voters ((POPs and players, who each get one vote)) is then passed successfully by a majority of voters, in which the following conditions are satisfied:";

(b) "(i) the wording of the referendum must be clear and unambiguous in its intent;";

(c) "(ii) the result of the referendum is binding on the Government and the Senate; and"; and

(d) "(iii) a Constitutional Amendment referendum can only be held once a Constitutional Amendment motion has successfully passed the Senate in accordance with subsection 7(1)."​

Time left for debate: [timer=05/26/2015 2:37 AM UTC;Expired][/timer]

Senator the Honourable William Melda
Acting Prime Minister of Pulias
President of the Pulias People's Party
Senator for Haven of Peace

 

[Et_Absoluti]

I propose that we do not fast track this bill like the others, it has major ramifications.

 

[Melda]

I propose that we do not fast track this bill like the others, it has major ramifications.

Understood.

Let the debate begin!

Debating closes in [timer=05/26/2015 2:37 AM UTC;***the time's up***][/timer], at which point the voting period will commence.

 

[Melda]

As this bill is going to be debated, if it pleases the chamber I will go first.

I believe this bill is important because it codifies in law the convention that two-third support in the Senate is required to make changes to the Constitution of Pulias.

I also believe this bill is an important aspect of the Government's democratisation agenda, by giving the people themselves a say in what changes the Government of the day is trying to make to the people's Constitution in the name of the people. I think the Constitution of Pulias is an instrument of civilised society far too important to be entrusted to a once-in-a-decade vote of the people that we all know as the general election.

The referendum requirement strengthens our democracy by giving everyday people the right to express their political will outside of the scheduled election period and will act as a brake on Government power and excess. By increasing the opportunity for citizens to directly participate in the political sphere it will give the people real power and influence on important social and political issues.

Referenda will provide clear answers to the questions of what the people actually want their Constitution to represent, and will be an important method by which governments may gain the direct consent of the people before they make permanent and lasting changes to the key document underpinning our democracy and civilised society here in modern Pulias.

 

[cpm4001]

OOC: The NPC senator actually voted yes on the order amendment, because it had to do with orders. Will be playing the turns here probably tomorrow.

IC: Edwin Zachariah currently abstains on the War Powers Act, pending further debate.

 

[MiguelBazil]

((Just so I understand, you're proposing to ask the pops what they think about an amendment? Is this even technically possible, and how?

EDIT: for clearance, if it's a war declaration, it's easy enough to generate a simples yes/no question that any POP can answer: do you want to go to war over x?
But how can you apply that to constitutional ammendments? Is it easy to create simple yes/no questions that the POP's can answer based on their character?))

 

[Heerlo]

Sorry I've been so inactive lately. Been very busy.

((Just so I understand, you're proposing to ask the pops what they think about an amendment? Is this even technically possible, and how?

EDIT: for clearance, if it's a war declaration, it's easy enough to generate a simples yes/no question that any POP can answer: do you want to go to war over x?
But how can you apply that to constitutional ammendments? Is it easy to create simple yes/no questions that the POP's can answer based on their character?))

It would seem to me that POP voting on an amendment would be the same as voting on a declaration of war. Wouldn't they simply be voting yes or no to the amendment?

 

[Melda]

IC: Edwin Zachariah currently abstains on the War Powers Act, pending further debate.

((The War Powers Act is passed, do you mean the Constitutional Amendment Act? If so, okay. I hope I can persuade him of its merits. Although to be honest I thought the War Powers Act would be far more controversial than this bill. Shows what I know. ))

((Just so I understand, you're proposing to ask the pops what they think about an amendment? Is this even technically possible, and how?

((Yes it is. cpm consults his POP spreadsheet.

Also, I think the POP table on page 1 of this thread still shows the 1812 position. Am I right on that or not?))

EDIT: for clearance, if it's a war declaration, it's easy enough to generate a simples yes/no question that any POP can answer: do you want to go to war over x?
But how can you apply that to constitutional ammendments? Is it easy to create simple yes/no questions that the POP's can answer based on their character?))

It would seem to me that POP voting on an amendment would be the same as voting on a declaration of war. Wouldn't they simply be voting yes or no to the amendment?

((Since I don't know what cpm's spreadsheet looks like, I might leave it to him to explain if and how it's possible. My understanding from previous consultation was that the POPs could be consulted through referenda, otherwise I wouldn't have proposed it. ))

 

[MiguelBazil]

((But that's the thing, it's simple to make the referendum about war because there's a war-proneness. A POP is either war-prone or not, it's a stat let's say. But I'm not sure there are enough stats that we can base a question of yes or no from it to any situation, thus my doubt.

If we decide to make an ammendment to the constitution for, let's say, a fixed number of days for discussion and then voting, does a pop have an opinion on that?))

 

[Melda]

((Maybe it's based on how much the POPs trust or don't trust the players moving the amendments? cpm?))