Recently reinstalled civ V

[vincentz]

Ok, before you start flaming/trolling this thread I hope to get some serious answers.

I just reinstalled civ 5 after not playing since release.

So. I see its still same same in many ways (Unit AI especially), but what shocked me the most was that I recently bought a "new" rig.
The rig is nothing special, yet it plays skyrim with 1680x1050 maxed setting with around 30-40 fps in cities and 40-60 fps outside, so not that bad either.

Then I fire up civ 5 and get 8-12 fps!!! wait what!! 8-12 fps!!! (directx10-11)
I'm looking at the map. Its pretty flat, immobile, no animations, looking almost like a boardgame. sure there are some foxes running in circles, and a worker doing his business, but thats pretty much it.

So, my question is : what is the reason for this extreme low fps?

 

[mintegar]

how do you measure the fps in civ5?

 

[vincentz]

with FRAPS

 

[mintegar]

Ok thx, might have a look what my system is getting once i get home.

I think firaxis hat their devs priority too much in the direction "it has to look pretty" (it does) and use all the latest tech. Don't think they spent much time on optimizing performance and power consumption.

 

[vincentz]

Ok thx, might have a look what my system is getting once i get home.

I think firaxis hat their devs priority too much in the direction "it has to look pretty" (it does) and use all the latest tech. Don't think they spent much time on optimizing performance and power consumption.

but thats the thing. it looks pretty, but thats it. there are nothing on the map that should pull resources like that. a few animations and a simple "flat" terrain like civ 5 doesnt justify the need of a gigabyte graphics card.

in comparison to other 3d games (like skyrim) where there is highspeed movement, layered graphics, dynamic shadows and lights etc vs. a still map with minimal movement and animation, no scrolling and no dynamics at all. yet the later is doing 1/5 the fps (which means slow, choppy mousemovement and bad control/UI response).

I just fail to see why its soooo resource hogging.

 

[TW_Honorius]

what is your computer specs, driver versions and game settings set to?

 

[Deggial]

What's about all the water effects? I'm not in real time programming, but I could imagine that this stuff is not trivial to render.

 

[vincentz]

what is your computer specs, driver versions and game settings set to?

Vista Ultimate 64bit
Core2Duo E7300 2.66 MHz, 4 GB Ram, Nvidia 9800 GT 512 MB (driver 285.62)
settings on high. res 1680x1050. big map.

Not that highend but not that crappy either. As mentioned all other games runs really smooth and fast, yet a game that looks like a simple board game cannot?!?
I tried to load up an old (heavily modified) version of Civ IV BtS and getting 70-80 fps

What's about all the water effects? I'm not in real time programming, but I could imagine that this stuff is not trivial to render.

do you mean the rivers?

plenty of games have more beautiful waves/water effects/reflections than civ5, yet there is no problem rendering that.

Are there a debug menu like in Civ IV (ctrl+D)?

 

[Ianwill93]

My specs are very similar to yours and I heard the game runs at an annoying rate due to it actually animating things off-screen in addition to what you see.
Im no computer whiz but thats pretty ridiculous

 

[timtofly]

Does vista even do direct x 11?

This game is coded to multi task, meaning that the AI and Human can "move" at the same time. Not really needed for a turn based game, so it seems "messed" up.

Technically this means that if a human could think and move as fast as a computer could, then it would make sense, although that is not the point of a turn based game.

The point of rendering out of sight graphics is mute though. It renders a zoomed in screen faster than a zoomed out screen.

 

[vincentz]

but if it moves at the same time, why does it take sooo long time between turns.

and I dont think that it renders animations not shown. on my old rig it would take forever just to render the terrain if I scrolled a bit.

but as you mentioned, its a turn based, cardboard game. it shouldnt use resources at all (maybe between turns, but thats not the issue at hand). Yet it uses MUCH more than even the newest 3D action/battle games. Just doesnt make any sense.

edit. yep. vista does use dx11 :

(mmm, the bios look kinda old. gotta find the flashbios for my mobo)

just a couple of comparison shots : (framerate upper left corner)

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

I dont mind the worse graphics for more than 10x fps + better features/gameplay.
Graphics isnt everything in a computergame. especially not a strategic turnbased game like civ.

 

[The_J]

Nope, it doesn't. DX11 might be installed, but Vista can max. utilize DX10.
And since Civ5 is not optimized for DX10, you should rather try the DX9 mode, should be a good lot faster.

 

[vincentz]

Nope, it doesn't. DX11 might be installed, but Vista can max. utilize DX10.
And since Civ5 is not optimized for DX10, you should rather try the DX9 mode, should be a good lot faster.

according to this article Vista got on the directx11 wagon 2 years ago.

(I know, its in danish, and could therefore easely have been a recipe for pastry, but look it up if you dont believe me )

edit : and its the same with dx9

 

[qalsip1977]

I'd do like The_J suggested and play in DX9. Your video card is quite a few generations old and is not DX11 compadible. You're better off sticking with DX9. Without your hardware you won't notice a difference at all

Edit: If it plays the same on DX9 then the only thing you can do is be sure you have the most up-to-date driver for your video card. If you do...maybe upgrade your video card?

 

[The_J]

Oh, you're indeed right, went over wikipedia to the MS website, and they say they patched it somehow in with the SP2.
Didn't know that, my bad.

But qalsip is right, the 9800 is only a DX9 card.

 

[vincentz]

I just ran it with dx9 to make sure, and it did make a leap up to 14-16 fps, but still eh, not acceptable. But what kind of framerate do you guys get?

I just think its odd that a game that doesnt really have a lot of "bling" need that much firepower.

 

[qalsip1977]

OP it isn't the "bling" that is using up your system resources. It's all of the different calculations being made by the AI; the units moving, combat, social policy decisions, etc. being made every turn by the AI. If you're experiencing game "lag" (I had this problem initially when getting CiV and my system is a BEAST) then I suggest checking drivers. I played the game in DX9 for a couple of months because of this. Once I turned off the intro video, updated all of my drivers, and my DX...it runs like a top in DX11.

 

[vincentz]

I recently (2 or 3 weeks ago) bought my rig, and made a clean install of vista ultimate 64bit, and updated all the drivers for it. I then updated the 9800GT again with the newest driver a week ago.
Driver Detective report all drivers up to date. The only one that is old is the bios, and I dont think that would do much to update that one (though I will, as I like when everything is nice and clean and up to date )

And as mentioned, all other games run (surprisingly) fast. (Surprisingly because I bought the rig for $290 including two 22'' flatscreens).

 

[qalsip1977]

I wouldn't worry myself with "what is my FPS rate". If the game is running smoothly and you're not noticing significant lag in between turns...then you're experiencing the optimal game experience. FPS is more important when playing a fast paced game like a FPS (first person shooter) anyway...not strategy games

 

[mintegar]

OP it isn't the "bling" that is using up your system resources. It's all of the different calculations being made by the AI; the units moving, combat, social policy decisions, etc. being made every turn by the AI.

I offer the following observation to you:
If i play the game in strategic view, system stays nicely quiet. Once i "turn on the bling", the GPU-fan kicks into high gear. And by that i mean it gets louder than with any other game i own. I.e. Metro 2033. When you compare the static view of the civ5 map with that, isn't that a little ridiculous?

AIs strategy calculations should be the same in both game modes, no?

Now, as you suggest, there could be something wrong with my drivers. I find that unlikely as i have installed dozens of game last year, and all ran without issues. (only exception beeing the ridicoulous performance reqs. of civ5 gfx). Don't care that much atm as there are many other good games out there to play.