Referendum on Scottish Independence

[Pangur Bán]

Hum, what's the matter with 18-24 year olds?

It's probably put into No by the large rUK student / recent graduate population (who otherwise overwhelmingly voted No something like 4- or 5-to-1).

 

[Borachio]

I'd have thought those were the people more likely to vote Yes, as a vote of no-confidence in Westminster.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Polls suggest that voters born in Wales, Northern Ireland and England (=rUK) were about 4 times (I've seen 5 and 3 too) likely to vote No than Yes. I suspect, from very very extensive personal experience, that much of the rUK Yes vote comes from longer-term residents rather than temporary populations. RUK Edinburgh & St Andrews students don't tend to be very radical either, but tend to be drawn from wealthy social backgrounds (esp those from England).

 

[Plotinus]

Well we can't know for sure but I think we can apply the simple solution principle here, it is probably some dumb "yes" voter.

I'd have thought the simplest explanation for a graffito that makes the "yes" supporters look really bad, and that would never motivate anyone to vote "yes", is that it's put there by a "no" supporter. But I suppose there's no way of knowing.

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

Hum, what's the matter with 18-24 year olds?

Actually, the question is 'what's the matter with 25-34 year olds'? To which the answer is, Thatcherism. Their political views were formed when Thatcher was treating Scotland as a laboratory for voodoo economics and when Major was trying to hold together a unitary government held hostage by English rightwingers. 18-24 year olds are just reverting to the norm.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Actually, the question is 'what's the matter with 25-34 year olds'? To which the answer is, Thatcherism. Their political views were formed when Thatcher was treating Scotland as a laboratory for voodoo economics and when Major was trying to hold together a unitary government held hostage by English rightwingers. 18-24 year olds are just reverting to the norm.

Doesn't explain the 16-18 year olds. Doesn't explain the 25-34 very well either. My theory explains the numbers very well.

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

The 16-17 year olds just thought 'let's do something ma and pa won't like' and 'Scotland - yeeeeah!!!'. I heard interviews with a cohort that the BBC followed through the campaign - half of them had switched between yes and no in the polling station. They were all trying to act responsibly and had thought about it, but I don't think they'd yet had the ballast of life experience they would stop them being tossed here and there by every blast of hot air from expert campaigners like Mr Salmond.

 

[Pangur Bán]

In Glasgow, 'proud Scots' burning the Scottish flag:
https://twitter.com/NeilMackay/status/513059215980888064/photo/1

The 16-17 year olds just thought 'let's do something ma and pa won't like' and 'Scotland - yeeeeah!!!'. I heard interviews with a cohort that the BBC followed through the campaign - half of them had switched between yes and no in the polling station. They were all trying to act responsibly and had thought about it, but I don't think they'd yet had the ballast of life experience they would still them being tossed here and there by every blast of hot air from expert campaigners like Mr Salmond.

Possible, but not very likely.

 

[Viregel]

Though the polls were probably over optimistic about the yes victory, I'd assumed it would have been closer. That said, does anyone else think that in 20 - 30 years time, there will likely be another referendum that will pass Scottish independence? I say this because a) the younger voters were overwhelmingly yes, thus will be around longer and will influence the next generation and b) the Tories (and probably Labour as well) probably won't devolve overly much. There's almost certainly a direct correlation between wealth and situation in life and voting yes, with the less wealthy typically voting yes for understandable reasons - so assuming more people get poorer, will there eventually be a yes vote?

(Note: I still don't condone the yes campaign, just speculation. )

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

In Glasgow, 'proud Scots' burning the Scottish flag:
https://twitter.com/NeilMackay/status/513059215980888064/photo/1




Possible, but not very likely.

The behaviour of the Scottish Loyalists tonight is utterly appalling. Sad confirmation that Scotland has right-wing idiots just like the rest of the UK.

However, there is a Huffington Post 'journalist' saying that photo is of a flare going off last night, not flag-burning now:

" I have been advised this is actually a flare which was set off and isn't a picture of saltire burning. Although 1/2 http://t.co/giwKK12mOm"

Maybe need to wait a few minutes for the dust to settle on that one when we get a reliable source.

 

[Evil Beejeebers]

A real shame a lot of poor people in Scotland have just become poorer.

As for those loyalist knuckle draggers, they don't represent all the real no voters.

 

[Pangur Bán]

The behaviour of the Scottish Loyalists tonight is utterly appalling. Sad confirmation that Scotland has right-wing idiots just like the rest of the UK.

However, there is a Huffington Post 'journalist' saying that photo is of a flare going off last night, not flag-burning now:

" I have been advised this is actually a flare which was set off and isn't a picture of saltire burning. Although 1/2 http://t.co/giwKK12mOm"

Maybe need to wait a few minutes for the dust to settle on that one when we get a reliable source.

The poster took that down, so that might be right. There's another video of a yob grabbing a saltire from the lands of a little woman:
https://vine.co/v/OWPzrhni0Aj

But your comments about the dust pertinent here.

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

I forget where, but some time in the last week I heard a comedian say something like, "All police leave has been cancelled for fear of drunken crowds and street fights the day after the referendum result. Or as they call it in Glasgow, a normal Friday night." Sad that this has turned out not to be a joke.

 

[Domen]

NVM, removed.

 

[Traitorfish]

They had to be excluded in a first place. How can you let highschoolers to decide about the permanent future of their country?

Because it's their future. I'd say they have at least as much to vote on it than some octogenarian who isn't going to survive to live with the consequences.

As for those loyalist knuckle draggers, they don't represent all the real no voters.

I agree. But after months of every Facebook troll being held aloft as evidence of the basic barbarism of the rebellious Scotch, there's a certain schadenfreude in the revelation that the fash were all voting with Team Reasonable.

 

[Domen]

some octogenarian who isn't going to survive to live with the consequences.

I know why you lost the referendum. Because you had no "hide your grandma's ID card" campaign!

Before 2007 elections here, there was a slogan from followers of certain parties: "hide your grandma's ID card".

Other parties responded - "take your grandma with you - vote together". In Scotland you had neither of these two options.

As the result 65+ granny votes buried your hopes for independence. Next time, hide your grandma's ID card.

 

[Takhisis]

Is it worthwhile to note that 71% of 16 to 17 year-olds voted in favor of independence?

Yes, because, not only it is their future that they decided on, as Traitorfish said, but that they are the future.

What'd happen if another referendum were to be presented in 20 years' time? If the trend continues, the older voters, who lean towards No, might just feck it up.

…Also, if only 30% of voters in that age bracket voted in favour of remaining in the UK, the automatic Rangers=Loyalist identification might be slowly being broken, but football loyalties are the modern equivalents of tribes and they tend to die hard.

 

[Domen]

Well, inciting others to hide their grandmas' ID cards is rather illegal. But at least take your grandmas to vote with you.

 

[Traitorfish]

Thank god Scottish Labour did its good socialist duty and saved us from the dread beast nationalism, or who knows what state we'd be in?

 

[Domen]

Traitorfish, these photos show mostly young and middle-aged people.

Where are these 65+ people who voted overwhelmingly against independence?

Maybe young unionists were wise and took their grandmas with them.