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Reform and Rule

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Modpacks' started by Machiavelli24, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. Machiavelli24

    Machiavelli24 Mod creator

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    skaz, if you have a saved game that uses RnR and the DLL components that crashes when you exit (or do some other collection of steps) send it to me and I'll see if I can reproduce the behavior with your save.
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    Chrisbburn, it should be possible to use both the mod, the exact steps you have to take depend on which mod's Patronage policies you want to play with.

    If you want to play with city-state diplomacy's Patronage tree than you will need to disable the changes RnR makes to Patronage.
    If you want to play with RnR's version of Patronage than you will need to disable the changes city-state-diplomacy makes to the Patronage policy. That shouldn't be hard but I would need to take a quick look at the mod to say what the exact steps would be.
     
  2. Skaz881

    Skaz881 History Major

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    Will do. I'll try and get it near the point it usually crashes first along with a list of which mods I have active. Since I was trying to replicate it, I'm only using a few.
     
  3. NeoNio

    NeoNio Chieftain

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    How does this kind of mods change the AI behavior? i mean do they choose based on the policies new attributes or are they blind to that and just choose what they allways choose.
     
  4. Machiavelli24

    Machiavelli24 Mod creator

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    With or without this mod the AI does not try to parse the game-play effects of Social Policies and evaluate what would provide the most benefit. Instead it (to oversimplify) the AI looks at the flavor values of each policy and uses those to determine what policy to take. Unlike a human player the AI usually won't wait until the Renaissance to blitz down Rationalism.
     
  5. Skaz881

    Skaz881 History Major

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    :blush::blush::blush::blush:So............I may have been wrong about it being the DLL since I haven't been able to recreate the problem yet, so I'll just keep adding mods on until I find the problem.
     
  6. demondance

    demondance Chieftain

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    Recently i played honor a lot but one thing of Honor finisher i dont like is allowing you to purchase unit by gold.... it seems very redundant and weak.
     
  7. Skaz881

    Skaz881 History Major

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    After many hours of frustration and testing, I think I've finally found the problem. RnR does not like some, if not most of thecrazyscotsman's mods. So far I've tentatively confirmed that it crashes with his Enhanced Improvements mod, which leads me to believe that it would also crash with his other improved buildings mods, but I will have to test this out later. All I know is that the crash that has been plaguing me has not happened so far after disabling all of his mods but the starting worker.
     
  8. Machiavelli24

    Machiavelli24 Mod creator

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    I look through the source for enhanced improvements and didn't see anything that looked like it would cause issues. I also started and played a brief 10 turns with Reform and Enhanced Improvements and didn't see a crash during or after play.

    As for thecrazyscotsman's building mods, as long as they don't use the same name than they will probably work fine.

    A more methodical approach would likely be faster and easier. If you can get me a save of a game that consistently crashes, along with links to the mods it uses, I can take a look at see what is going on under the hood.
     
  9. pyroflare77

    pyroflare77 Chieftain

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    So I just noticed the description for Patronage in the OP. Did you change the warmonger penalties for taking a city-state? Because it's pretty much one of the worst things you can do in the game when it comes to trying to avoid war with other civilizations.
     
  10. Skaz881

    Skaz881 History Major

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    The crashes don't start happening until the renaissance era. Later I will play a game with just your mods, whoward's mods that I use and thecraztscotsman's mods that I use after I recreate the error.
     
  11. Skaz881

    Skaz881 History Major

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    This save is at the point when I usually start experiencing crashes. Now they've never really been consistint (except when I had ALL of my mods enabled and it was CTD in the middle of a turn), I've only gotten it to crash once tonight but they usually happen after I finish researching a technology and I either try to load a save in game or save and then try and exit to main menu. You may have to do some playing around. This save has all 5 of your mods, whoward's DLL-Various Mod Components, AI - Smart (v 2), Diplomacy - Auto-Denounce (v 1), Global - City Forest Bonus (v 3), Global - City Working Distance (v 7), Global - Civilians Move After Purchase (v 2), Global - CS Liberate After Buyout (v 1), Global - CS Unit Upgrades (v 2), Global - No More Civilian Traffic Jams (v 1), Global - Venice Keeps Resources (v 1), Promotions - Crossovers (v 6), Religion - Fixed Prophets (v 2), Religion - Recurring Purchase Notify (v 1), Trade - Marble Shipments (v 1), UI - Trade Routes Enhancements (v 6) and Units - Cheap Workboats (v 2). For thecrazyscotsman's mods, I have Ancient Building packs 1 and two, Classical building pack, Medieval and Renaissance building pack, Industrial building pack, Unique Policy Buildings, Enhanced Improvements, Improved Caravanasary, Improved Windmill, Improved Granary, Improved Watermill, Cistern and Marina and Starting Worker. I also have Realistic Civilization Attitudes. If I missed any, let me know and I'll figure out which one I forgot and tell you. I hope you can find out what isn't playing well together here.
     

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  12. bane_

    bane_ Howardianism High-Priest

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    If there is something I feel should return to Honor, is the Free Great General. Was a good boost for early warmongering, for human and AI alike.
     
  13. Skaz881

    Skaz881 History Major

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    Rationalism's opener once again doesn't seem to be working.
     
  14. Machiavelli24

    Machiavelli24 Mod creator

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    Thank you skaz for bringing the issue with the Rationalism opener to my attention. I've released an small update that fixes the issue. Games started with the previous version can be continued post-update. Everything will work correctly post-update.
     
  15. bane_

    bane_ Howardianism High-Priest

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    So, any insights on my comments about the Honor Great General or Piracy being overpower (a few pages ago)?
     
  16. Machiavelli24

    Machiavelli24 Mod creator

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    With respect to honor providing a free Great General, I wanted to go with an effect that would influence how a player wanted to play rather than giving them something no matter what they did. A free Great General could allow a sooner timing attack (which is certainly useful) but my hope was that the current leadership policy would encourage people to build a "Great General Point Engine" and that question of how to integrate this engine into their existing strategy would cause them to think in ways they normally don't. But it could be that building a "Great General Point Engine" isn't that interesting (fight the people you were already going to fight, or exp grind a random city state).

    As for Piracy's ship healing, is your concern that the AI doesn't know how to counter-play against a navy that has it? My intent was to make it easier to position a navy offensively without it getting attritioned to death over prolonged fights but if your tactical movements essentially made your navy invincible against the AI the overall result can be boredom.
     
  17. bane_

    bane_ Howardianism High-Priest

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    Makes sense, really. I do like the accelerator I get with your version of Honor, I am getting plenty of Great Generals without the need to resort to lesser fun ways like attacking a poor isolated City-State.

    About the Piracy, yeah, it was totally unfun. I played with it once and then never again touched that tenet. As I said in the other post, the bully part was awesome, I really fealt 'pirate-y' without having much overbearing impact in-game: I get my gold, you are still pissed, your protectors are as well. The healing part, though, was just too powerful, as in literally 'too powerful'. I made an ok navy and went to capture a city-state in another Continent, it was fairly easy because I could just jump out of range and heal while another took my place; that, alone, is powerful, but is not my concern, what really took me by surprise was how easy it was to dominate ALL coastal cities if I just got a bigger navy - it wasn't a Ottoman navy, mind you, it was big, nothing the AI can't build, but was unstoppable. I will repeat because I believe this is one of the crucial parts: I suck at Domination in 7-8 difficulties, like really suck, I have never won a Domination in Deity and thanks to Piracy was able to curbstomp every Civ basically by dominating the coast and coming in later with the land troops to seal the deal.

    This might not be a dealbreaker, though, seeing as this thread is busy but no one else complained about it. In my opinion, it is unbalanced.
     
  18. pyroflare77

    pyroflare77 Chieftain

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    Perhaps lowering the amount healed would work? Something like 5 HP (the normal heal rate) gives you resting potential but without the hit-and-run tactics (unless your navy is really large) that 15 HP would provide.
     
  19. Machiavelli24

    Machiavelli24 Mod creator

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    Unfortunately much of the warmonger calculations are hard-coded and can't be changed without modding the dll (which would greatly reduce this mod's modularity). So capturing the last city a player has (aka every city-state) still results in huge warmonger hate. The Patronage fluff that recommends that approach isn't really giving practical advance.
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    As for Piracy's heal, one possible nerf I may make to it is having the heal only apply to melee boats.
     
  20. Zyxpsilon

    Zyxpsilon Running Spider

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    Ya know Mach... it would probably be fun to design some symbolic images for *your* Tenets too.
    Once i'm through with the Z-Eras+Center mod Nutty & I are working on at this moment, i'll consider giving you a custom SIT version.
    Click in my sig link below should you need further details about that kind of stuff.
    :D
     

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