Reform Math? No wonder America is behind.....

[skadistic]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/267073_math18.html

What is wrong with America today? Its bad enough we pass kids on to the next grade even when they fail but now you don't need to learn basic math. I can't fathom how people can say its to hard so lets make it easier. If its to hard teach them better. This pure and simply is disgusting. I personaly suck at math but the most important thing about math is getting the friggin' answer right. America is becoming a lazy stupid nation because of PC crap like "failing students will hurt thier esteam" or what ever the loons can come up with. Its alot like the people that whine about having to pass a test to graduate high school. Insteead of making sure the kids know what they are suposed to they cry foul and state that the tests are raceist. Am I out of line being this frothy at the bit over this?

 

[Spartan117]

yep i never learned algebra in grammer school or didnt take an english class for that matter, but for some reason i was able to take ap calculus as a senior in high school...

another problem in tjhe education system is history, its sort of bad if all the history you know extends to the 90's, like many people i know

and tests can be biased

 

[malclave]

If the "reform math" example given in the article was accurate, I think having some of that in the classroom is a good idea... though I think that the curriculum should be predominantly traditional.

Heck, the fourth "reform math" problem took me a couple of minutes to solve... in my own defense I've been out of school for a couple of decades, though. And I probably would have overcomplicated the fifth just to annoy the teacher.

 

[History_Buff]

I really do hate the questions like the example of reform math. I'm an Engineer, I do math better than just about anything else, and those kinds of problems don't help with math skills at all. (All save the fourth are really easy, only the fourth really teaches anything). While kids do need to understand the underlying concepts of math (without that, you don't know anything), crazy creative teachings are not the answer.

It's easy to put the exact same examples described in the article into a textbook. I could probably do it myself.

The other thing we have to get kids away from is calculators. Maybe adults use calculators, but you won't be allowed to have em in a any real University Math class, so giving them a calculator is a hindrance anyway.

 

[Babbler]

Don't get me started on idiotic school reforms.

Although my math ed was top notch.

 

[warpus]

I really do hate the questions like the example of reform math. I'm an Engineer, I do math better than just about anything else, and those kinds of problems don't help with math skills at all.

You're an engineer - the kind of math you use everyday is applied math. You're given a formula, you plug numbers in, and you get an answer.

I agree that applied math is important - but pure math is even more important - the students should be taught not only HOW to solve math problems, but also WHY things are done the way that they are - and why the formulas that they're given work.

I wouldn't recommend that a math class be taught exclusively with reform math principles - but I do think that they'd help.

 

[Samson]

You reakon the US is baddly off, look at this;

In one further education college, a group working on the "application of number" was taught by a tutor whose highest maths qualification was a grade D at GCSE.

A D at GCSE is really low, I reakon you could get that without understanding algebra.

I tutored a freinds daugter in AS level stats last year, and man did it open my eyes. The most disgusting thing was when I questioned her about one concept, I cannot remember what it was but it was pretty important, not terribly difficult and on the sylabus, she said the teachers answer when asked about it was "too complicated and you do not need to know it".

The other think that amazed me was that AS stats was basicly probability, no hypothesis testing at all.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

I really do hate the questions like the example of reform math.

I really liked them. I personally work with my kids on a combination of the two. One is rote, the other is creative; both can be important in life. While the first is more important to engineering, the second type of thinking is great for those who create or troubleshoot networks. (I was a Math/CS major who now does Communications Engineering.)

 

[7ronin]

Now, now. Just as long as these kids feel good about themselves then it's Okay. We certainly don't want to crap on any child's self esteem just because they're having trouble with a few difficult math problems. Plus there's no need to memorize and learn a bunch of stoopid formulae they will probably never use. Besides, just keep enough money in your checking account and you don't have to balance it. And last but not least, who needs math when you can get an electronic arithmetic machine at Walmart for $1.99?

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Does anyone remember when you used to be able to walk into a McDonalds before they electronic cash registers and you could get charged $6.33, give them a $20 bill, a $1 bill, a nickel and 3 pennies and they knew what you wanted.

Now you walk in, get charged $15.99, and if you give them a $20 bill and a $1 bill they're like, 'why did you give me the $1, are you trying to trick me or something' You tell them to just plug in the darn $21 into the register so it will tell them, but they go on and on and on about you trying to trick them.

 

[Tycoon101]

Worst American Math Award: Everyday Math
A problem from the curriculum:

Five birds are sitting in a nest, and three fly away. TELL US HOW THE BIRDS THAT ARE STILL IN THE NEST FEEL.

Yep, thats why I escaped public schools, and went to private ones.

 

[Xenocrates]

You may use the following symbols as often as you wish:
+ - ( ) X ?

Am I right in thinking that use of / is prohibited in these 'reform' questions? In that case count me a failure.

As for the traditional math questions: they can be simplified in any way you choose, since no rules are defined. I often get symbols replaced by question marks on my browser ( a consequence of installing Chinese characters). Do the questions look like this to you?:

Simplify each expression.

1. 25 ? 10 ? 5
2. 14 + 7 * 6
3. 50 ? 5 ? 2
4. 32 ? 8? 4
5. (32 ? 8) ? 4
6. 32 ? (8 ? 4)

For example, question 1. could be 25+10+5 [40] or it could be 25*(10-5) [125]

Is this another case of failing to see the obvious (cough 9/11 cough ) No one is brave enough to admit that they can't do a 'simple' question? That's exactly how Bahramdipity fields work!

 

[Che Guava]

Oh, I don't think it's that bad. Sure sme kinks have to be worked out, but maybe if math was taught in a more interesting way from the get-go, kids would actually enjoy it and decide to be an engineer instead of another lawyer....

 

[Xenocrates]

I have had confirmation from my mother-in-law, a woman that was described a maths genius in China where she was in the top 1%, that the reform maths problems are indeed impossible without the use of division.

I look forward to eating my helping of 'humble pie' that I'm sure you all really want to throw at me!

Meh, you guys are really in the top 99% of the population

 

[CrazyScientist]

I have had confirmation from my mother-in-law, a woman that was described a maths genius in China where she was in the top 1%, that the reform maths problems are indeed impossible without the use of division.

I look forward to eating my helping of 'humble pie' that I'm sure you all really want to throw at me!

Meh, you guys are really in the top 99% of the population

I think your browser is messing with you. The division symbol is an option. It is the last one on the right where your post shows a question mark instead. All the problems in the traditional math portion are also division problems.

 

[Phlegmak]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/267073_math18.html

What is wrong with America today? Its bad enough we pass kids on to the next grade even when they fail but now you don't need to learn basic math. I can't fathom how people can say its to hard so lets make it easier. If its to hard teach them better. This pure and simply is disgusting. I personaly suck at math but the most important thing about math is getting the friggin' answer right. America is becoming a lazy stupid nation because of PC crap like "failing students will hurt thier esteam" or what ever the loons can come up with. Its alot like the people that whine about having to pass a test to graduate high school. Insteead of making sure the kids know what they are suposed to they cry foul and state that the tests are raceist. Am I out of line being this frothy at the bit over this?

Teachers aren't the problem. The students are the problem. The US has had a long history of disliking academic achievement (nerds are the ones who excel). This has only gotten worse, especially now with the trend of parents to want all the kids to get rewards, rather than just the top achievers.

I must admit that in preKatrina New Orleans, teachers were part of the problem. They SUCKED MIGHTILY.

 

[Xenocrates]

Hmmm tasty. Pass more pie please!

OK, so you're all outside the bottom 99% of the population

The bottom 1% being populated by me and microsoft explorer developers.

 

[Hundegesicht]

If the "reform math" example given in the article was accurate, I think having some of that in the classroom is a good idea... though I think that the curriculum should be predominantly traditional.

Heck, the fourth "reform math" problem took me a couple of minutes to solve... in my own defense I've been out of school for a couple of decades, though. And I probably would have overcomplicated the fifth just to annoy the teacher.

(77 - 7)/7 ? A couple minutes? I'm not even good at math, but I saw it in about 5 seconds... I'm sure most of the kids who are uses to crap like that could see it instantly. What skills are kids going to learn from those equations? What real life problem is going to be solved by arranging a bunch of 7s in a certain way?

It's a bunch of rubbish I say. Any kid that can't do basic Algebra by 12th grade shouldn't be allowed to pass high school.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/267073_math18.html

What is wrong with America today? Its bad enough we pass kids on to the next grade even when they fail but now you don't need to learn basic math. I can't fathom how people can say its to hard so lets make it easier. If its to hard teach them better. This pure and simply is disgusting. I personaly suck at math but the most important thing about math is getting the friggin' answer right. America is becoming a lazy stupid nation because of PC crap like "failing students will hurt thier esteam" or what ever the loons can come up with. Its alot like the people that whine about having to pass a test to graduate high school. Insteead of making sure the kids know what they are suposed to they cry foul and state that the tests are raceist. Am I out of line being this frothy at the bit over this?

I agree that kids should be held back if they don't pass, or at least retake the class next year a grade higher (greater embarassment). I grant you that I despised math more than anything else in high school, and I thought I sucked at it, now that I'm taking college math courses, I realize that I don't suck at math in the least.

Lazy: definitely not. Stupid: varying shades of grey, and there are plenty of things that are stupid that the rest of the world does. I didn't have to pass a test to graduate high school, and does a person really need a piece of paper to determine how smart they are? To be blunt, hell no. They can state that the tests are racist, but if there is no racially biased object on the test, the school (or at least mine did when some kids cried about a test) will call their bluff.

I don't understand why you get all worked up about something that doesn't really have any contact with you other than through the news media or something that you can't even really control.

As a side note, my former high school required you to take 4 credits of math to graduate, which turns out to be the equivalent of two school year worth of math. And to get into a university you needed to take at least a credit and a half of algebra and then a half credit of geometry. Most of the kids that did go to universities did eventually take Calculus, AP Calculus, and Trigonometry just because they met the requirements, not because they had to. [Sarcasm] Now if that ain't easy math I don't know what is (the calc and trig).[End Sarcasm].

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

We also had block scheduling, which means that we had 84 minutes class periods, but our classes lasted 1 semester only. So (360x84)/60. Do the math on that to find out the number of math credits we had to take.

Another note: we had to take the algebra, calc, geometry, and trig AFTER the 4 credits. Still not taking enough math for your liking?