Relationships between AI Civs

[nzcamel]

This is something I can't figure out.

When you look at the relationships an AI civ has with other civs in their diplomatic screen; are you seeing what the other civs leaders think of that leader... or are you seeing what that leader thinks of other civs leaders?

Here we have Trajan's screen. It shows that in regards to Gilgamesh the relationship is unfriendly. Is it Gilgi who is unfriendly to Trajan? Or Trajan who is unfriendly to Gilgi.

That matters cos if we look at Gilgamesh's screen, we see that the relationship is friendly.
So one of them views the other as a friend, and the other views the first as not a friend. Which is which??

 

[nzcamel]

Hah! Caught Trajan blinking

@Siptah @Eagle Pursuit @Victoria @HF22 @c4c6 @Dale @Leyrann @Liufeng @Ryika
@Cerilis

Anyone know?

 

[HF22]

My guess has been it matches the format of the players screen (ie Trajan's screen shows Gilgamesh's view of Trajan).

But on reflection, I don't really know.

 

[Morningcalm]

Ah, one of the many mysteries in the game yet to be explained by anyone, or discovered by anyone. The Civilopedia really could use sprucing up to cover such things.

 

[nzcamel]

This isn't petty cos they don't like you trading with enemies ae? Me n Gilgi are mates and I want it to stay that way as much as pos; so if he disapproves of Trajan, I won't trade with Rome. If it is the other way around, I don't care

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Test it by denouncing or DoW'ing Trajan.

If Gilgamesh feels friendly towards Trajan (indicated by the second pic), then he'll probably say something, and a diplomacy penalty should appear there.
If nothing happens, then denounce/DoW Gilgamesh, to check if Trajan will say something.

It'd be better if you had sent a delegation to Trajan, so you'd see the modifiers.

 

[Forster]

I am pretty sure the screen shows the character's opponents view of the character. If you are showing Cleo green and then you denounce her, she will turn red right away. After all, the computer really doesn't know your opinion toward the AIs, how could it show your opinion.

 

[nzcamel]

Test it by denouncing or DoW'ing Trajan.

If Gilgamesh feels friendly towards Trajan (indicated by the second pic), then he'll probably say something, and a diplomacy penalty should appear there.
If nothing happens, then denounce/DoW Gilgamesh, to check if Trajan will say something.

It'd be better if you had sent a delegation to Trajan, so you'd see the modifiers.

Good idea. I'll try a few different things and then reload my save without suffering any ill will I did not want.

I am pretty sure the screen shows the character's opponents view of the character. If you are showing Cleo green and then you denounce her, she will turn red right away. After all, the computer really doesn't know your opinion toward the AIs, how could it show your opinion.

Well, when you are looking at your own leader screen (which shows you your civ & leader bonus etc) you don't have that little relationship screen.
No matter which other leader you look at in the diplomatic screens; you can always see the attitude of all the leaders to you down the side; where the icon to jump to another leader's diplomatic screen is. Or back in the main screen of the game, you can see each leaders attitude towards you on the icons that take you into the diplomatic screens in the first place.

We aren't presented that info about the AI's view of us in our own leader screen. So.... no; none of that therefore enlightens me to which is which when I am looking at any given leader's screen.

 

[Victoria]

@Forster is correct.

 

[nzcamel]

@Forster is correct.

How do you know?
I mean this:

I am pretty sure the screen shows the character's opponents view of the character.

...does not logically tie into this:

If you are showing Cleo green and then you denounce her, she will turn red right away. After all, the computer really doesn't know your opinion toward the AIs, how could it show your opinion.

I'm not saying Forster is wrong; but I'd love for him to elaborate!

I'm clearly not talking about our relationship with the AI, as we don't find that info in the relationship box.

 

[Cerilis]

I think it shows what the others think about the currently selected civ. Had one case of joint war against me, where the initiating civ (who was at turn) didnt actually like the joining one and I was wondering how they came to an agreement then... checked the other one and they had pretty much fallen in love with the initiator.

In your screens, Trajan would love Gilgamesh, but the Bro is just meh about him.

Also, look on Gilgamesh's screen: The news ticker tells us, he has denounced China, but China isnt shown as denounced, but as unfriendly. So it's China's opinion of him. (Assuming that's still recent enough for the denounciation to not have gone away ) Nevermind, as the friendship also already has run its course, we can assume the denounciation has too, derp.

 

[Victoria]

Ooops @nzcamel I misread his view, Its the other way around. I am such an airhead.

 

[Forster]

I can see it both ways. The player doesn't have a screen like the AIs, bur the same symbols are shown at the top of the screen, and they shoe the opposing AIs attitude.

 

[nzcamel]

Ooops @nzcamel I misread his view, Its the other way around. I am such an airhead.

So you think on Gilgi's page we are seeing his view of the other leaders?

I can see it both ways. The player doesn't have a screen like the AIs, bur the same symbols are shown at the top of the screen, and they shoe the opposing AIs attitude.

Yeah...still not decisively helpful lol. Though again, I'm not saying you are wrong - I think it would be slightly more intuitive that we do see other leaders views of that leader when we are on their page. But that isn't an answer in and of itself.

I've got some time today to do what ShinigamiKenji suggested, and play around to see what changes in relationship may reveal...but it would be nice to have an official word on this from Firaxis!

 

[Victoria]

If I look at Norway, they denounced France (which means france cannot denounce Norway) and the screen shows denounced if I hover over France. This indicates it is Norways view of France.. However if I look at France they show the same. ALl countries show the same so it looks like all views are always mutual? Does anyone see anuything different?

 

[nzcamel]

If I look at Norway, they denounced France (which means france cannot denounce Norway) and the screen shows denounced if I hover over France. This indicates it is Norways view of France.. However if I look at France they show the same. ALl countries show the same so it looks like all views are always mutual? Does anyone see anuything different?

No, I checked that specifically, and show it with Gilgi & Trajan. AI's can and do often hold different views of each other. They weren't the only ones at the time I posted this. There were at least 10 "uneven" relationships.

 

[SomeGuyHere]

If I look at Norway, they denounced France (which means france cannot denounce Norway) and the screen shows denounced if I hover over France. This indicates it is Norways view of France.. However if I look at France they show the same. ALl countries show the same so it looks like all views are always mutual? Does anyone see anuything different?

View attachment 467320

The OP said his views were different on both screens. They can't be mutual.

 

[Victoria]

Its weird, a denouncement is showing both ways. The way I have always considered it is it is their view of other civs amd that assumption has always worked for me but nothing proven.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

I think denouncements appear that way for both parts, regardless of who denounced who. Just like we get also a Casus Belli against an opponent if he/she denounces us.

Any results so far?

 

[nzcamel]

No, I got side tracked lol.