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[Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Religion and Revolution' started by Robert Surcouf, Sep 5, 2011.

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  1. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    If you describe how it did work or how it should work it is maybe not that difficult to code that feature and we might take it on our list. :)
     
  2. Robert Surcouf

    Robert Surcouf Civ4Col Modder

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    In original Colonization, Indians were sometimes alarmed by Europeans. Especially if their land was stolen, if a missionary failed, or even if your colony was too close to a native colony in a high difficulty level (Vice-Roi).

    Instead of declaring war, they launched a raid. (You could sometimes even make them calm down BEFORE they launched a raid, by giving them horses, weapons or something else). So one of their units simply "attacked" our colony. BUT they only stole goods. No one was killed, and colony was destroyed. And of course, you got a text telling us that the native leader wasn't aware of such an attack.

    If you wanted you could declare after a raid. So there was an intermediate state between peace and war with the natives in Col94... Let's say natives had something like their own Privateers but on lands !
     
  3. Gomer_Pyle

    Gomer_Pyle Prince

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    Very good description Robert. Right on! I have seen this implemented in "Further Age of Discovery" Atleast to some extent. Hope it is possible to add. Atleast would be a great addition.

    The feature is kind of a way for the Natives to force your hands. So instead of a complete game with peace and "cowards way" you may have to actually defend yourself. Then again defending yourself is a must in TAC. hehe

    Edit: Forgot something. Normally the raiding happened when the Natives demanded a certain goods ( part of being alarmed towards the europeans), and if you didnt wanna give it to them then they raided to try and steal it.
     
  4. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    Hey guys,

    I just now noticed these threads and looks like an awesome mod in development here. Really glad to see this forum come alive again. I want to read through all the posts before I make a more detailed comment. I can't just throw my lot in to help yet as I am extremely busy at the moment but maybe in a couple weeks I'll have more time, just have to see. But keep up the good works and keep this mod going!
     
  5. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Hey Kailric,

    thanks. :)

    Would be great if you could find some time for modding in a couple of weeks and would like to take a look at our work.

    I have always been amazed by your great work. :goodjob:

    Best regards,
    ray
     
  6. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    About Native Raids:

    Ronnar just coded another of these as event for TAC (which we will base our project on).
    (There are several events like that in TAC already. :) )

    Maybe he will do more, but we could do them too.
    (It is not that difficult. ;) )

    I know, this is not exactly like it works in Original Colonization but it is at least something a little similar.

    See here as example:
    Spoiler :


     
  7. Gomer_Pyle

    Gomer_Pyle Prince

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    It is all good. But why need to declare war? Why not only defend? I think the state of war doesnt need to be started just because of a raid? Someone looked at code for this in "Further Age of Discovery" for ideas?
     
  8. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    You do not need to declare war. :)
    (You have 3 choices.)

    No, I haven't done that yet.

    Are the sources available for other modders ?
    Could someone post screens so we could see how it works ?
     
  9. Gomer_Pyle

    Gomer_Pyle Prince

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    No I dont know if its available. There are a couple of people who have taken over or pushed the mod a bit forward since the creator havent worked on it for a while.

    I will try and explain it better how it works in col94.

    I think it is kind of a random event that happens once natives get "cautious/alerted" towards you. The stage before they get really angry/war.

    They will move a unit into one of your settlements and instead of giving you goods for being good neighbours (this feature is already in the game) they will demand goods just like the king demands taxes. It is basically a lot like the king demand process just with natives vs europeans.

    If you accept you will get a bit relation boost. If you refuse they will instantly or next turn raid your settlement for the goods in question. If they die trying to attack then case is closed and relationship will stay as before on alerted or cautious. If they succeed they will get the goods and you loose it from storage and maybe a building is destroyed in the process. But nobody is killed except maybe the native.

    Also important that it happens to all the europeans not just the real person (you as the player). Also the AI europeans.

    Age of Further Discovery - Have a look and the feature is named: Native AI - Native Raiding Parties
     
  10. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Yes of course ! :)
    (The events in TAC also happen to AI.)
     
  11. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    It would really be great if somebody could post screenshots of the feature ingame. :)
    (I am currently quite busy and do not have a lot of time testing and playing other mods like "Age of Further Discovery".)
     
  12. Gomer_Pyle

    Gomer_Pyle Prince

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    I asked Aymerick about it. And he said I could use it if I wanted too. So I guess if someone wanna have a look at it would be great.

    Will have a look at making some screenshots.
     
  13. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Great. :thumbsup:
    (If we like it then, I will take a detailled look at the code when I have a little more time.)
     
  14. Gomer_Pyle

    Gomer_Pyle Prince

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    I just did a quick paced game with lots of quick rounds. I was hostile towards the native nation in question. I stole the land and built where i wanted. Result is native attacks without declaring war.

    Screenshot of Native during raid:
    Spoiler :


    Screenshot after raid:
    Spoiler :



    As you can see the result of this raid was scalps and free colonist was killed.

    Here there was no event at all it seems. They just attacked my settlement because they were annoyed with me. But it is not war. These raids can do alot of different things. Natives raiding treasures inland or just attacking settlements for horses and guns. In original colonization you natives first approached you demanding stuff, in age of further discovery they dont. They just raid you. But this can be made so many different ways. The cool thing is that you need to keep your forces ready, otherwise the natives will kill your settlement.

    I dont know how to explain it any different. Just gotta see for yourself I guess. :king:

    Edit: Forgot to mention this feature is also a must when it comes to treasures moving on the map. Natives should/could also raid ungarded treasures if they think they are up to it. "If I attack that treasure will the owner chop my head off?"
     
  15. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    That gave me a first impression. :)
    Thanks. :goodjob:
     
  16. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Sorry, but not one of the link for AoFDv0.04 I tried did work ...
    I always get "Download currently not available" or other Error-Messages.

    Seems, like I cannot take a look at the sources ... :dunno:
    (... at least not today.)

    By the way:

    I think I like the basic idea. :)

    If the modders from AoFD will allow and Robert likes it too, I would use their work to create a "new" feature for us.

    I would put some Diplomacy around it.
    Meaning you would first get a Diplomacy-Screen where the corresponding Native Leader would warn you that they are upset.
    You can react at that point and pay some retribution or not.
    If you do not react by paying retribution there are high chances that a raid will follow.
    The Diplomacy-Screen itself would be trigger by AlarmAttitude of the Natives. (... and of course also chances. I hate determinism.)
    (There would be several rounds in between before that nation would address you again with this feature.)
     
  17. Gomer_Pyle

    Gomer_Pyle Prince

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    I uploaded the versions I got so you can have a look.

    Age of Further Discovery v0.04

    Age of Futher Discovery Patch v0.04b

    To your last post. I like the idea about the Diplomacy around it. Maybe you can also make the natives remember? In case you choose to ignore the natives demands there is a high chance of a raid + a relation drop. Next time raiding chance will be bigger + maybe more raids/bigger demands?
     
  18. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Thanks, I got them now. :thumbsup:
    Let us see if Robert likes the feature and my idea of using it for a new version of it with Diplomacy around. :)
     
  19. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    I really like where you are going with this. In vanilla Diplomacy and Deal making with other Nations/Natives is so very dull and does not immerse the player into the game at all and its a part of the game I wanted to improve myself.

    I did a little work on this in my Medieval mod where you can "Insult" other Leaders to entice them to war or just prove that you are not afraid of them. I like that you added negative effects to constant bartering for better prices. One Idea on that is if you accept a Leaders first offer it could, after a random number of deals depending on the leader's attributes, improve relations with that leader or hurt relations depending on your number attempts to barter for better prices.

    This system could be made simple or ever more complex such as Goods that a city is in need of could be easier to barter for better prices. Also, Leaders could have a new "bartering" attribute which determines their skill at bartering and their different thresholds for getting angry.

    Say, if you are bartering for better prices on Cigars and Leader A has a skill of 50 in bartering and Leader B has a skill of 65 and Leader A has 100 Cigars he wants to sell to Leader B for the best prices possible (he is in need of new Cannons asap). Leader A would then ask for better prices and a check would be made maybe like...

    Leader A skill 50 - Leader B skill 65 = Modifier = -15.
    The basic chance to win a Barter is 50% or 51-100 on a random roll of 100. So a Leader would have to roll 51 or more to win the Barter before the modifier is applied.
    In this case Leader A would make his check as (Random Roll - 15) so if he rolled 61 - 15 = 46 he would have failed his Barter and would have to sell his goods at the offered price and can not try to change prices any more that turn.

    Ok, on the Catholic and Protestant religions and immigration... its kind of hard to see how that would work out in the game and what kind of "fun factor" it would have. But I like the Idea of "Bribing" the immigrants. However I would not call it bribing as that term is usually used for illegal or dishonest activities but maybe call it "enticing" or to Entice the immigrant. Or even "persuade" maybe.

    And another thing about vanilla Col I never liked was that Taxes only ever go up. I always wanted to add in a way for the player to decrease the tax rate. Say if the King asks for a big chunk of gold and the player accepts the King could lower the tax rate as an act of gratitude or lift an embargo.

    Or the King could ask for a certain amount of goods to be brought to Europe in a certain amount of time to lower the tax rate, "If you bring me 100 units of Muskets within 5 years I may consider lowering your tax rate" (In this case there would have to be another option added to the Europe screen for "Deliver goods to the King" or the King could give the player a special transport that he can load his Muskets into and deliver to the King same as a Treasure unit. Just brain storming here). I like having other victory conditions other than Independence as it adds to the replay value of the game and being able to lower the tax rate in none Independence games would be very helpful.

    Well thats some of my thoughts so far on this... :)
     
  20. Robert Surcouf

    Robert Surcouf Civ4Col Modder

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    Of course I like it! That's exactly what I was looking for.
    I've tried to play Age of Further Discovery (v 0.04 I think) and it didn't work. I'll try again. Thank you Gomer Pyle!
    Hi Kairlic. You're right ! "Bribing" isn't the correct word.

    That must be fun! Insulting your rivals ! By the way, have you checked out your Inventor modcomp lately ?

    You don't like the idea ! :cry:
    We'll will surely try to make it fun! The point is, I really think you can't understand this period of history if you forget about religious wars !
     
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