[Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development

[Gomer_Pyle]

I have downloaded and tested it. Looks great.

 

[raystuttgart]

@team:

Could you please also take a look at this.

It is an alternative Interface and massive graphical overhaul that melcher kürzer has created for TAC 2.02c.
Biggest difference is that the game is played in ISOMETRIC PERSPECTIVE.

I am not sure about that, but would like to get some feedback what the rest of you think.

Till tomorrow then.

 

[Gomer_Pyle]

That wont start for me. I made a duplicate of "TAC 2.02c_inoffiziell" folder and named it "TAC 2.02c Iso". Copied "Assets and Resource" folders into "TAC 2.02c Iso" folder. When the game loads the files it halts on "fonts" or something like that. Game goes blackscreen and crash to desktop when I press escape. Normal TAC 2.02c_inoffiziell works just fine...

But looking at the screenshots I can say that honestly I would not be a big fan. Maybe have it as a modmod or option at some later point.

Edit: Found a error called "Load Error" - GFC Error: failed to initialize the primary control theme

 

[raystuttgart]

@team:

Could you please also take a look at this.

It is an alternative Interface and massive graphical overhaul that melcher kürzer has created for TAC 2.02c.
Biggest difference is that the game is played in ISOMETRIC PERSPECTIVE.

I am not sure about that, but would like to get some feedback what the rest of you think.

Hi guys,

let us forget about that.
There are too many bugs and problems (in Screens) in there.

Also it would cause us a lot more effort for future CityScreen and Graphics (Buildings, Improvements, ...).

 

[raystuttgart]

TAC 2.02d is out now.

Before anybody is asking:
I will of course merge the fixes / changes of TAC 2.02d.
(I will need some time until I have merged all our completed features. )

 

[orlanth]

I like those ideas especially Religion and native raids. Do you think it's possible to enable a few Civics before Constitution? some ideas:

Religious Freedom (increased immigration from other religion, makes your Pope less happy, chance for a rare event to get a Hugenot immigrant)
Tolerance (default setting)
Persecution (decreased immigration from other religion, increased satisfaction for your Pope and colonists from same religion)

Agrarianism (slight bonus to production of agricultural yield types; allows rare events that will allow you to invest some money to improve yield of a Farm tile)
Industrialization (slight bonus to production of Ore, Tools, Muskets; allows events to improve yield of Mine)
Mercantilism (slight bonus to production of processed goods, allows events to improve yield from a processing building)

 

[raystuttgart]

... few Civics before Constitution?

Interesting idea.

We could let the player make choices throughout the game ...

Other ideas:

Strict Slavery or Free all Slaves
Naives have no Rights at all or Same Rights for Natives
...

We could do that out with our Inventions-Concept (Inventions could also be Knowledge or Ideas).
(It is possible to exclude one Invention by having another.)

 

[Androrc the Orc]

I think Kailric did something in this direction sometime ago? A "Colonial Charter", I think.

 

[raystuttgart]

I think Kailric did something in this direction sometime ago? A "Colonial Charter", I think.

But why should we implement another feature, if we could do that with Inventions-Feature, too.

 

[Robert Surcouf]

Hi everyone,

I've been away these last few days but I've done some testing.
I'd like to change the score mechanism:
1. First of all, I'd like to change SCORE_POPULATION_FACTOR (for now it is set to 0).
So population will be part of our score (in Col94 score was based on population)
2. I'd like to remove one line in the CvGame.cpp setting native score to 0.
So natives would have some score.
Here's the code, I'd like to change the red part of the code (simply comment it off):

int CvPlayer::calculateScore(bool bFinal, bool bVictory) const
{
	PROFILE_FUNC();

	if (!isAlive())
	{
		return 0;
	}

	if (GET_TEAM(getTeam()).getNumMembers() == 0)
	{
		return 0;
	}


	[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]if (isNative())
	{
		return 0;
	}[/COLOR][/B]

	long iScore = 0;

	gDLL->getPythonIFace()->pythonCalculateScore(getID(), &iScore, bFinal, bVictory);

	iScore *= getScoreTaxFactor();
	iScore /= 100;

	return ((int)iScore);
}

I know this isn't the most important modification (or is it a bugfix?), but it's easy to do, and it's harmless.
Feedback?

But why should we implement another feature, if we could do that with Inventions-Feature, too.

You're right Ray, with Kailric's inventor modcomp we can indeed add civics before declaring independence if I remember correctly... Or maybe I've

 

[colonialfan]

Hi Robert. I have no objections to the change in score mechanism you have proposed

 

[RenaissanceFan]

Sorry for this "disappearance", a.k.a "laptop HD broken, everything erased permanently". (AAAARGH!!!)

Well, I thought of some ideas about the cities (And yes, as always, AI/balancing-difficult):

City wealth:

A number of "levels" to show the level of economical growth in a city. Rules:

1. At founding, cities have level 1 of economy;
2. Immigration lowers the rating a bit;
3. Some economical event to raise it substantially; (optional)
4. Trading items produced inside slowly raises it;
5. Pillaging improvements lowers it;
6. Raids reset it; (explained below)
7. Sieges lower it.

Raids:

After a successful invasion, the invader could choose to keep the city or to plunder it, giving him money, but returning the city to the owner. Pirates would always do it.

Pirates:

Pretty straightforward. Should a city rebel, it can have a chance of separating itself. Then it would become a pirate haven and periodically spawn pirate ships, which would endanger travels and, I think, would add some degree of action on high seas.

What do you think? Remember, these are only concepts.

 

[orlanth]

That's right, in Kailric's modcomp Inventions use an adaptation of the Civic system. However I think they can't currently exclude more than 1 invention and can never be changed once you have them. I had problems with trying to make EventTriggers that require an Invention, but was able to make them require a normal Civic.

 

[Gomer_Pyle]

Hi everyone,

I've been away these last few days but I've done some testing.
I'd like to change the score mechanism:
1. First of all, I'd like to change SCORE_POPULATION_FACTOR (for now it is set to 0).
So population will be part of our score (in Col94 score was based on population)
2. I'd like to remove one line in the CvGame.cpp setting native score to 0.
So natives would have some score.
Here's the code, I'd like to change the red part of the code (simply comment it off):

int CvPlayer::calculateScore(bool bFinal, bool bVictory) const
{
	PROFILE_FUNC();

	if (!isAlive())
	{
		return 0;
	}

	if (GET_TEAM(getTeam()).getNumMembers() == 0)
	{
		return 0;
	}


	[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]if (isNative())
	{
		return 0;
	}[/COLOR][/B]

	long iScore = 0;

	gDLL->getPythonIFace()->pythonCalculateScore(getID(), &iScore, bFinal, bVictory);

	iScore *= getScoreTaxFactor();
	iScore /= 100;

	return ((int)iScore);
}

I know this isn't the most important modification (or is it a bugfix?), but it's easy to do, and it's harmless.
Feedback?

You're right Ray, with Kailric's inventor modcomp we can indeed add civics before declaring independence if I remember correctly... Or maybe I've

What is actually included in the calculation of score?

 

[Robert Surcouf]

What is actually included in the calculation of score?

There are three main tags in global defines :
1) Founding fathers (SCORE_FATHER_FACTOR set to 4000)
"Score you get if you have all the fathers"
2) Land ( SCORE_LAND_FACTOR set to 4000)
"Score you get if you have all the land on the current map"
3) Population (SCORE_POPULATION_FACTOR set to 0!)
"Score you get if you have the 'maximum' population possible on the current map"

TAC didn't change this part (it isn't a bug of course!) if I'm correct so only two things count:
Founding Fathers and Land

 

[Gomer_Pyle]

Why not have population in it? Is AI cheating too much with immigration to be realistic?

 

[raystuttgart]

2. I'd like to remove one line in the CvGame.cpp setting native score to 0.
So natives would have some score.

Please do not do that.
This will totally let the score-diagramm look strange !

Explanation:

1. Natives are no normal Civ !
(They are not really competition to the player.)

They do not get Founding Fathers, they do not really increase their Population like Europeans.

They would only have a relatively high score in the beginning because having several villages.
(Especially this will let the player score look very strange in comparison.)

Later on their score will only continuously drop.
(Because they will continuously loose village by village against Europeans.)

2. We will have many many Native Civs later on.

There will simply be too many useless lines in the score-diagramm.

Again:

It really does not make sense to have Natives in the Score-Diagramm.
They cannot be compared to Europeans like that because they do not play by the same rules.
They are not competition to the Europeans, they are "victims".
(It is like comparing wolves with sheep.)

 

[Robert Surcouf]

Please do not do that.
This will totally let the score-diagramm look strange !

Yes they would ... if they were in the score diagram
Hopefully only Europeans appear in the score diagram!

Explanation:

1. Natives are no normal Civ !
(They are not really competition to the player.)

They do not get Founding Fathers, they do not really increase their Population like Europeans.

Of course I agree...

They would only have a relatively high score in the beginning because having several villages.
(Especially this will let the player score look very strange in comparison.)

Later on their score will only continuously drop.
(Because they will continuously loose village by village against Europeans.)

That's the whole point of it. I tried a 10 turn-game (with vanilla C4C and an edited home made scenario). The problem is I won, which seems quite stupid to me! Of course, natives score should be higher than ours at the beginning and it should drop constantly

2. We will have many many Native Civs later on.

There will simply be too many useless lines in the score-diagramm.

I've already checked, and that doesn't happen:

and score diagram (were in 1492!)

Again:

It really does not make sense to have Natives in the Score-Diagramm.
They cannot be compared to Europeans like that because they do not play by the same rules.
They are not competition to the Europeans, they are "victims".
(It is like comparing wolves with sheep.)

I agree!

 

[raystuttgart]

Ok, then the Diagramm is not problematic.

But even the Information on the lower right corner of Main Screen is something I do not like.

Spoiler :

Score of Natives destroys Fun and Atmosphere for me.
After you have discovered 1 Native Village, you can already calculate how strong that Native Civ is.
(Meaning how many Villages they have.)

I really do not want to be told how strong the Natives are.
I want to find out myself.

With Europeans, that is different.
The Europeans could know (by contacts in Europe or whatever) about the "strength" of each other.

Please let us forget "Score for Natives".
(I really hate to be told too many things. I want to find out myself. This is part of the fun for me.)

 

[Robert Surcouf]

And what about score population factor?
Do you like it or not?

I guess we have already discussed this when we talked about my "no variables hidden".
I like seeing many infos, and you would rather things on your own...
Maybe I should open a thread about the "no variables hidden" game option. Everyone in the team could tell me what they think of each part of it ... This could (but I'll have to think about it again) be part of the
"no variables hidden" game option if everyone is ok with it?

But I must say you're right. For me we should know more or less why another leader doesn't like us. But we shouldn't know natives strength freely. (By the way I really like Civ4 espionage mechanisms!)... Could we talk about it after Christmas?

This is probably my last post for now. So happy new year to everyone !