Religous Viewas on Masterbation?

[mrtn]

Varwnos, I'd say that public masturbation is a lot different than the ordinary sort. The public sort is (usually) sexual harassment, while the private is not.

 

[Kyriakos]

Yes, they were distinct 'crimes'.
Private masturbation was a religious sin (still is, it is just that not many people care) and had the exclusion from communion as a penalty.
Public masturbation had a financial penalty as well as a religious one.

This has not really changed though, from those times. The church still maintains the same sin system, and public masturbation also is seen as a petty "crime" of sorts (public indecency).

 

[Rambuchan]

Regarding public masturbation, wasn't Socrates a fan of this?

I can't find anything on a quick search about this, but I clearly remember it from some old discussions with a noted classics professor here in Cambridge. Here's some hint of Socrates' general approach, but can anyone clarify and confirm his stance on public masturbation?

http://www.sexscrolls.net/socrates.html

 

[Kyriakos]

I have not heard of that, although i am not an expert on Socrates :\

Perhaps you are mistaking him with Diogenes? The thinker who lived in a amphorae. Diogenes had been reported as claiming, about the need to eat: "if only i could solve it by pressing my hand up and down my belly" (compare with the issue of masturbation, and it will become clear what he meant )

 

[tomsnowman123]

I believe that there was also a large "anti-masturbation" movement during the time of Puritans is America. Much of their reasoning resembled some of today's religious reasoning; that it is sinful and "wastes" sperm. Let's just say they lost that battle fairly quickly.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

This I never understood. It's not as if the sperm just waits around in there until we're ready to use it, it dies after like three days (if I remember Bio class correctly), whether it's inside or outside of you body- or someone else's.
Masturbation can also be a way to remain pure (I'm trying to speak like they do), since by pleasuring yourself, you can abstain from engaging in what would be considered "immoral" sex with another, right? Or that might make it worse... I don't know.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I believe that there was also a large "anti-masturbation" movement during the time of Puritans is America. Much of their reasoning resembled some of today's religious reasoning; that it is sinful and "wastes" sperm. Let's just say they lost that battle fairly quickly.

Puritainism was the perfect example of a Theocracy: whatever THEY decided they didn't want you to do, it became a sin, it was a terrible way of controlling people. I touch on this in my swearing/vulgar tongue thread in cirulation right now, about how these sort of folk decided that certain rude words were now "sins" and bad Christians spoke them, etc etc.
Thank God for secular government. No that's not a pun.

 

[El_Machinae]

It's not as if the sperm just waits around in there until we're ready to use it, it dies after like three days (if I remember Bio class correctly), whether it's inside or outside of you body- or someone else's.

They're seen as potential people, though. And even though people die all the time, it's wrong to intentionally kill them.

I don't support the position that sperm are people, but I've seen the argument.

edit: correcting a highly-embarrasing spelling mistake

 

[Elrohir]

I'm suprised this thread was allowed to stay open. (And I'm wondering why Silver was reading the Wiki article on masturbation....)

As a Christian who believes in the inerrancy of the Bible, I have to say that if the Bible says it's wrong, then it's wrong, whether we like it or not. But at the same time, we shouldn't add things that aren't there; if it's not there, then it's a matter of personal opinion.

But, interestingly enough, while the Bible goes into detail in saying that adultery, homosexuality, and even lust are all sexual sins, masturbation isn't actually mentioned anywhere. Oh yes, the Onan thing - but his sin was not doing his duty, and disobeying God, not "spilling his seed". Some would say that masturbation would fit under the sin of fornification, but I've never understood that - how can you fornicate by yourself?

I would say that lusting is a sin, as that is clearly defined in Scripture. But masturbation itself isn't mentioned anywhere. So if you can masturbate without lusting, then go for it.

That's just my .02.

 

[Che Guava]

I would say that lusting is a sin, as that is clearly defined in Scripture. But masturbation itself isn't mentioned anywhere. So if you can masturbate without lusting, then go for it.

Nice post! I just had to quote that section because it made me giggle to think of some guy wanking off while reading the sports page so he doesn't lust at all

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Young Bozo: Forgive me Father for I have sinned, it has been one week since my last mastur---I mean, confession...

Priest: Never mind, I get the picture. Go say a few Hail Marys. See ya next week.

 

[Elrohir]

Nice post! I just had to quote that section because it made me giggle to think of some guy wanking off while reading the sports page so he doesn't lust at all

Well, he has to have something to think about, I suppose.

 

[El_Machinae]

How did suicide get made a sin, then?

 

[Elrohir]

How did suicide get made a sin, then?

Because it's killing yourself, and killing is wrong if it's unjustified, no matter who it is. (IE, defending yourself or others, or in a war) If by committing suicide you saved the lives of others, then it would generally be considered to be moral.

 

[Kyriakos]

Sin is a concept used by someone so as to construct a mental image of an agent of dismissal, utilised against either other mental objects (eg thoughts, or emotions) or his own understandings of other people.
As such it is in itself again a mental creation.

There is, of course, nothing logical in the notion of sin; only false connections and not thorough thinking sustains it for those for which it is still sustained.

 

[Elrohir]

Sin is a concept used by someone so as to construct a mental image of an agent of dismissal, utilised against either other mental objects (eg thoughts, or emotions) or his own understandings of other people.
As such it is in itself again a mental creation.

There is, of course, nothing logical in the notion of sin; only false connections and not thorough thinking sustains it for those for which it is still sustained.

A sin is an immoral act; are you saying that morality is illogical?

 

[El_Machinae]

If by committing suicide you saved the lives of others, then it would generally be considered to be moral.

I'm pretty sure Jesus describes it as the most moral action possible. It's not love to risk your soul for someone else, but it's love to risk your life for someone else.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

A sin is an immoral act; are you saying that morality is illogical?

Psst...He's European. Thats exactly what he's saying. [/whispering]

 

[Elrohir]

I'm pretty sure Jesus describes it as the most moral action possible. It's not love to risk your soul for someone else, but it's love to risk your life for someone else.

Ah, but there is a difference between risking your life for someone else, and ending it for someone else. If they both have an actual effect, and do indeed save lives, then I believe they are both moral; but that is not to say they are the same.

Psst...He's European. Thats exactly what he's saying. [/whispering]

Gotcha.

 

[Masquerouge]

Regarding public masturbation, wasn't Socrates a fan of this?

I can't find anything on a quick search about this, but I clearly remember it from some old discussions with a noted classics professor here in Cambridge. Here's some hint of Socrates' general approach, but can anyone clarify and confirm his stance on public masturbation?

http://www.sexscrolls.net/socrates.html

I thought it was Diogene, actually.