Replay #3 Coming closer Wastin :D
- Thread starter Seraiel
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Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
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Ok, played some 2 new maps, 2 times Oracle at 2500 BC, guess the game wants to tell me I should finish this Writeup ^^ . Here we go:
Last time, you read a very short part of Replay, which was mainly about the last steps of the setup towards the GA. What you're gonna read now, is: How to use a GA to get to Sushi in the BCs, featuring my Liberalism -> Medicine Slingshot as a first time official!
You still remember the overview I gave to you at 1000 BC, that should be enough to know about the status of the Incan Empire, if you're interessted, download BUFFY and have a look at the savegame. Here are the years from 770 BC - 30 AD! (This is gonna be a lot of work and a lot to read, but I have some really good Coffey next to me, you should also fetch yourself some ;D . tl;dl read the bold parts again) .
A GS has been born, and I use him to start the first golden Age of the Incan Empire. Now I can finally switch to Buro, but in addition to that, I change from Slavery to CS and from OR to Pacifism. This enables the Empire to work 10 Scientist-Specialsts and 1 Engineer in Hamburg in addition to the 2 Scientists the city already got from the GL. With the 100% Bonus to GP-generation from Pacifism, Hamburg jumps to 189
! Here is a picture of the starving city:
FIN Colossus Coast during a GA looks nice, doesn't it? ;D On the screen, you can also see, that I'm short before finishing Liberalism. You can also see, that the next GP will arise in only 5 turns! For those of you who don't play Marathon: Length of a GA on Marathon is 16 turns and I get +50% from having the MoM, so that makes 24 turns. Now you'll think "ok, that roughly gives him 3-4 GPs" .
"No" I'm gonna say, "this will give me 5 GPs!" because Hamburg will not be the only GP Farm I'll work! Bombay has the Colossus, the GLH and the Oracle, that alone makes 6 * 3,5 = 21 :gp ! Why not work some Specialists in addition to that? Now Bombay doesn't have that much
so that it really can, but it is enough for 3 Merchants and again the 1 Engineer enabled by the Forge. This brings the city up to 63 ! Here is a picture for you:
But Bombay is not the only city having Wonders, let's have a look at what Kyoto is doing:
87 ! Regrettably the city has a very high chance of creating a GA, but this is not gonna be the only GA I wanna have, I wanna have 4, and for that, I'm gonna need some more GPs, so a GA would be absolutely fine, though not the best I could get.
Now why did I decide for Merchants and not Scientists: Thing is, that most of the GPs will be coming from Hamburg, and Hamburg is already "polluted" from the GL, so it per se has a chance of creating GSs. I actually only really "need" 1 GS for building an Academy in Cuzco. After that, it doesn matter! I really did some Math during this round, and the only difference I found between a GS and a GM is, that the GS helps reach Techs sooner, but only if one has enough
to run 100% Research anyway. If one hasn't, the Trademission from the GM will give so much , that one can again convert to 
by setting the Slider to 100%, that it really makes no difference at all (slight lie: First, one needs a lot of Libraries and Universities for this to be true, otherwise GSs are slightly better, and in addition, generally, the later GSs are better, though then, one has greater use for GMs) !
What I have in front of me is a very very long run for very large Techs, no way I'm gonna keep the Slider at 100% all the time, not even with Failgold (which I cannot even use excessively because I decided that I wanna build Settlers and Universities) , and as a totally different kind of matter: I have also started on military production, atm. I'm building HAs which I want to upgrade to Cavs, and, one step back: Not long after the first GA I'm going to trigger the next one, and for that I need 2 different kinds of GPs. Last reason to run GMs in the hybrid-GP-Farms is, that some techs are simply not "bulbable" with GSs, like Gunpowder, Constitution, Democracy, Economics, Corps...
Now you got all reasons to why to run Merchants in Kyoto and Bombay. Only thing that I wished for at that time was, that I'd have had the Pyramids, those Specialists would have been so many at that time... Btw.: How much BPT is the Empire doing?
700! Pretty impressive for the time, ain't it? Don't forget, Cuzco has neither an Academy nor Oxford, we'll watch how this will develop.
One thing I also do during every GA: Micro all cities to work less and more 
! I don't know if this makes sense tbh, I simply go by Intuition, and that tells me, that if a tile gets a bonus from something, that I'm gonna take it ;D . That doesn't of course mean that I switch from FPs to normal Plains, but I don't work that much Grassland during GAs as a general rule if Plains are available, I also work more Mines then Cottages. Here is a Screen of the Graphs for you, so that you can just see the power of this move:
Production basically doubles with the GA and with microing the tiles. What some of you may also notice, is that I whipped really hard directly before the GA. This in theory isn't really good, as during the GA, one wants to have the largest possible Pop, but there was simply no other way, I had improved so much that Population was growing onto unimproved tiles, and working unimproved tiles is something I don't do. I experience this in more and more of my games, I'm already whipping hard and stacking anger, and still, 1.5 Workers / city don't do, that's why I tend to disagree with that rule more and more and am even thinking about building something like 1.75 - 2 Workers / city in the future!
This was all to the GA, now lets get back at what happens:
770 BC, I found the first city on an island, it's named Arequipa:
I make use of the possibility to work an Artist in it and produce
for a fast Borderpop. Same turn I discover the totally underdeveloped Willem, now there is only Lincoln yet to meet.
750 BC: The also underdeveloped Suleiman vassalizes peacefully to Cyrus. This makes Washington go out of WHEOOHRN again. Cyrus must have really built some Military, good that I'm friendly with him, in contrast to all the other Civs who have joined the big Loveparade of Hinduists he is plotting a war for quite some time now. I wonder whom it is going against, maybe Mansa, the only other Islamist then Sulei?
Same turn I found the 22nd city of the Empire, called Nasca, again, also on an island:
730 BC, Cyrus liberates his Oversea Colonies, Saladin enters the round. Same turn, Berlin has reconquered some !
The GT in Berlin is on its way too, takes still some time, 900 are a huge investment, but you'll see how overpowered it is in near time.
720 BC: I discover Galleys of Mansa, Hatty and Sulei entering my territory. They all want to settle those Islands. "Go away, those are my Islands", but screaming doesn't help. I cannot close Borders with them, as relations to Mansa are already bad enough because he's such a religious fanatic and with Hatty I'd loose a good tradepartner.
Same turn, I again conduct some of my "Trades of Doom" . I just mention this again, as it's a tactic I think not everybody really knows, and it's really simple: Give a tech to someone that he is already researching, get some for it, and besides that, put some Revolutions to [stupid Civic xy] on the table and let him revolutionize longer than he would have taken to research the tech in full. Then watch him revolutionize back, and again loose some turns.
After those trades, I decide to switch Specialists from Merchants to Scientists again. I've got some much money right now, that I can run deficit for up to SM, and my new Math concludes, that if I can bulb Bio, GSs are stronger again (I didn't know how the value of the Trademission would develop though, so I'm just guessing again. In fact I think, that the difference is as I said, Scientists are faster if one has enough money, Merchants are more flexible. )
Again in the same turn another GS is born. He is sent to Cuzco to build an Academy. 3 turns later, it's ready, and it alone brings in 65 / turn! The Incan Empire is now doing an amazing of 900+ / turn!
710 BC is the year of the next foundation of a city, here goes #23 named Atico.
700 BC: The AP is built and it's christian!
670 BC: Berlin has reconquered its complete ! The city finds back to its old strength.
660 BC: Another GS is born in Hamburg. I use him to bulb part of PP.
Same Turn, I gift 250g to Viccy for diplomatic bonuses. I need her on friendly, as she is researching Optics, and I really want that Circumnavigation bonus. I also start the construction of a Trireme, that I'm going to upgrade into a Caravelle to get it. I was trading Worldmaps every turn, but there is always 1 tile missing for Circumnavigation, I cannot let it happen that someone else gets this on this map, where I want to found over 50 overseas cities.
650 BC, another island-city named Juli is founded by me. It secures 3 times Seafood, one of the really good locations that I wanted to secure.
I also notice Cyrus' SoD moving through my territory. I now know, that he's going against Mansa. Have fun Mansa, he's gonna kill you!
Btw.: Atm I'm doing 73 GPT through ressource-trade alone! This is due to me renegotiating every trade whenever there is only 1 GPT more available. Takes some time, but it's necessary for HoF play.
(To be continued, out of no more pictures allowed for this post. )
Last time, you read a very short part of Replay, which was mainly about the last steps of the setup towards the GA. What you're gonna read now, is: How to use a GA to get to Sushi in the BCs, featuring my Liberalism -> Medicine Slingshot as a first time official!
You still remember the overview I gave to you at 1000 BC, that should be enough to know about the status of the Incan Empire, if you're interessted, download BUFFY and have a look at the savegame. Here are the years from 770 BC - 30 AD! (This is gonna be a lot of work and a lot to read, but I have some really good Coffey next to me, you should also fetch yourself some ;D . tl;dl read the bold parts again) .
A GS has been born, and I use him to start the first golden Age of the Incan Empire. Now I can finally switch to Buro, but in addition to that, I change from Slavery to CS and from OR to Pacifism. This enables the Empire to work 10 Scientist-Specialsts and 1 Engineer in Hamburg in addition to the 2 Scientists the city already got from the GL. With the 100% Bonus to GP-generation from Pacifism, Hamburg jumps to 189
! Here is a picture of the starving city:Spoiler :
FIN Colossus Coast during a GA looks nice, doesn't it? ;D On the screen, you can also see, that I'm short before finishing Liberalism. You can also see, that the next GP will arise in only 5 turns! For those of you who don't play Marathon: Length of a GA on Marathon is 16 turns and I get +50% from having the MoM, so that makes 24 turns. Now you'll think "ok, that roughly gives him 3-4 GPs" .
"No" I'm gonna say, "this will give me 5 GPs!" because Hamburg will not be the only GP Farm I'll work! Bombay has the Colossus, the GLH and the Oracle, that alone makes 6 * 3,5 = 21 :gp ! Why not work some Specialists in addition to that? Now Bombay doesn't have that much
so that it really can, but it is enough for 3 Merchants and again the 1 Engineer enabled by the Forge. This brings the city up to 63 ! Here is a picture for you:Spoiler :
But Bombay is not the only city having Wonders, let's have a look at what Kyoto is doing:
Spoiler :
87
! Regrettably the city has a very high chance of creating a GA, but this is not gonna be the only GA I wanna have, I wanna have 4, and for that, I'm gonna need some more GPs, so a GA would be absolutely fine, though not the best I could get.Now why did I decide for Merchants and not Scientists: Thing is, that most of the GPs will be coming from Hamburg, and Hamburg is already "polluted" from the GL, so it per se has a chance of creating GSs. I actually only really "need" 1 GS for building an Academy in Cuzco. After that, it doesn matter! I really did some Math during this round, and the only difference I found between a GS and a GM is, that the GS helps reach Techs sooner, but only if one has enough
to run 100% Research anyway. If one hasn't, the Trademission from the GM will give so much , that one can again convert to by setting the Slider to 100%, that it really makes no difference at all (slight lie: First, one needs a lot of Libraries and Universities for this to be true, otherwise GSs are slightly better, and in addition, generally, the later GSs are better, though then, one has greater use for GMs) !What I have in front of me is a very very long run for very large Techs, no way I'm gonna keep the Slider at 100% all the time, not even with Failgold (which I cannot even use excessively because I decided that I wanna build Settlers and Universities) , and as a totally different kind of matter: I have also started on military production, atm. I'm building HAs which I want to upgrade to Cavs, and, one step back: Not long after the first GA I'm going to trigger the next one, and for that I need 2 different kinds of GPs. Last reason to run GMs in the hybrid-GP-Farms is, that some techs are simply not "bulbable" with GSs, like Gunpowder, Constitution, Democracy, Economics, Corps...
Now you got all reasons to why to run Merchants in Kyoto and Bombay. Only thing that I wished for at that time was, that I'd have had the Pyramids, those Specialists would have been so many
at that time... Btw.: How much BPT is the Empire doing?700! Pretty impressive for the time, ain't it? Don't forget, Cuzco has neither an Academy nor Oxford, we'll watch how this will develop.
One thing I also do during every GA: Micro all cities to work less
and more ! I don't know if this makes sense tbh, I simply go by Intuition, and that tells me, that if a tile gets a bonus from something, that I'm gonna take it ;D . That doesn't of course mean that I switch from FPs to normal Plains, but I don't work that much Grassland during GAs as a general rule if Plains are available, I also work more Mines then Cottages. Here is a Screen of the Graphs for you, so that you can just see the power of this move:
Production basically doubles with the GA and with microing the tiles. What some of you may also notice, is that I whipped really hard directly before the GA. This in theory isn't really good, as during the GA, one wants to have the largest possible Pop, but there was simply no other way, I had improved so much
that Population was growing onto unimproved tiles, and working unimproved tiles is something I don't do. I experience this in more and more of my games, I'm already whipping hard and stacking anger, and still, 1.5 Workers / city don't do, that's why I tend to disagree with that rule more and more and am even thinking about building something like 1.75 - 2 Workers / city in the future!This was all to the GA, now lets get back at what happens:
770 BC, I found the first city on an island, it's named Arequipa:
Spoiler :
I make use of the possibility to work an Artist in it and produce
for a fast Borderpop. Same turn I discover the totally underdeveloped Willem, now there is only Lincoln yet to meet.750 BC: The also underdeveloped Suleiman vassalizes peacefully to Cyrus. This makes Washington go out of WHEOOHRN again. Cyrus must have really built some Military, good that I'm friendly with him, in contrast to all the other Civs who have joined the big Loveparade of Hinduists he is plotting a war for quite some time now. I wonder whom it is going against, maybe Mansa, the only other Islamist then Sulei?
Same turn I found the 22nd city of the Empire, called Nasca, again, also on an island:
Spoiler :
730 BC, Cyrus liberates his Oversea Colonies, Saladin enters the round. Same turn, Berlin has reconquered some
!Spoiler :
The GT in Berlin is on its way too, takes still some time, 900
are a huge investment, but you'll see how overpowered it is in near time.720 BC: I discover Galleys of Mansa, Hatty and Sulei entering my territory. They all want to settle those Islands. "Go away, those are my Islands", but screaming doesn't help. I cannot close Borders with them, as relations to Mansa are already bad enough because he's such a religious fanatic and with Hatty I'd loose a good tradepartner.
Same turn, I again conduct some of my "Trades of Doom" . I just mention this again, as it's a tactic I think not everybody really knows, and it's really simple: Give a tech to someone that he is already researching, get some
for it, and besides that, put some Revolutions to [stupid Civic xy] on the table and let him revolutionize longer than he would have taken to research the tech in full. Then watch him revolutionize back, and again loose some turns.After those trades, I decide to switch Specialists from Merchants to Scientists again. I've got some much money right now, that I can run deficit for up to SM, and my new Math concludes, that if I can bulb Bio, GSs are stronger again (I didn't know how the value of the Trademission would develop though, so I'm just guessing again. In fact I think, that the difference is as I said, Scientists are faster if one has enough money, Merchants are more flexible. )
Again in the same turn another GS is born. He is sent to Cuzco to build an Academy. 3 turns later, it's ready, and it alone brings in 65
/ turn! The Incan Empire is now doing an amazing of 900+ / turn!710 BC is the year of the next foundation of a city, here goes #23 named Atico.
Spoiler :
700 BC: The AP is built and it's christian!
670 BC: Berlin has reconquered its complete
! The city finds back to its old strength.Spoiler :
660 BC: Another GS is born in Hamburg. I use him to bulb part of PP.
Same Turn, I gift 250g to Viccy for diplomatic bonuses. I need her on friendly, as she is researching Optics, and I really want that Circumnavigation bonus. I also start the construction of a Trireme, that I'm going to upgrade into a Caravelle to get it. I was trading Worldmaps every turn, but there is always 1 tile missing for Circumnavigation, I cannot let it happen that someone else gets this on this map, where I want to found over 50 overseas cities.
650 BC, another island-city named Juli is founded by me. It secures 3 times Seafood, one of the really good locations that I wanted to secure.
Spoiler :
I also notice Cyrus' SoD moving through my territory. I now know, that he's going against Mansa. Have fun Mansa, he's gonna kill you!
Spoiler :
Btw.: Atm I'm doing 73 GPT through ressource-trade alone! This is due to me renegotiating every trade whenever there is only 1 GPT more available. Takes some time, but it's necessary for HoF play.
(To be continued, out of no more pictures allowed for this post. )
Manco Capac
Friday,13 June,I Collapse
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Be careful with the tribal huts settled on islands, you may pop Astro. Colossus or free Astro. Hmmm...
Yes, astro innate additional 20% for being a pre-requisite of SM (important for Medicine sling-shot) may help to get faster Medicine, but I think financial Colossus may have upper hand on this case.
Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
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I don't understand you fully regrettably... For Medicine, you need Chemistry, so one usually takes the lower route of the tech-tree first, then, Astro becomes available by trade (AI always researches it) and one has no chance but to take it, because in a Points-Approach, one has to settle as many islands as possible to get max cities / land. Popping it out of a hut would of course be nice, but it's not that much better, then if I'd popped something like Sailing in the beginning imho.
So you love golden ages? You should have been around for v3.17 and earlier versions. GA was 30 turns....with MoM it was 45! You could be in a Golden Age for 200+ turns.
FYI, my 3.2 million point game was on v3.19.
FYI, my 3.2 million point game was on v3.19.
he means that you want to avoid astronomy until you really need it, since it obsoletes the colossus. You may prefer to avoid popping tribal villages until that time to avoid the small % chance of getting astronomy too early. But of course, 100% free astronomy isn't all bad...
Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
- Joined
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(Continuation of the Liberalism Medicine Slingshot. )
630 BC: Foundation of Chuito, city #25.
Also: I'm able to trade Guilds for PP from Darius. It's lucky that he researched it, without it, I would have had a full stop in research, because I have to wait for the Engineering trade to continue with Chemistry. Now I can research Economics very early, which will also give me the awesome Free Market Civic.
And: I break through the sonic wall of 1000 / turn!
Btw.: It's too early for you to notice, but it's early enough to mention it: I don't trade away Education to the AI. This is one of the backbones (is that correct english? ;D) of the Liberalism -> Medicine Slingshot, not trading Education. It's what I call: "The Education Block" . I found out, that AI has very little chance of researching it, as it will prefer other Techs first, see, how they're all teching the war-techs, Engineering, Guilds, Nationalism, Astronomy... By denying the AI the access to Education, one can stall Liberalism for some centuries, and this is one part allowing such huge things like the Slingshot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen this in at least 5 games now.
620 BC: The first University, the one in Cuzco completes! A little bit of Micro, aaaaand: 1060 / turn ;D It's time for a picture of this great city, which should be working an Engineer since the beginning of the GA, but regrettably it doesn't 
.
610 BC: I trade PP vs DR with MM ;D
I don't need it, but as I've traded PP to Darius already, I can now also trade it to everyone for anything, Mansa would have gotten it either way, the others also, better I get something for it, even if it's "only" DR. Though, the Versaille Wonder isn't that bad with my settings, as you're going to see.
Next turn, so 600 BC, I trade DR vs Engineering with Sabrina:
Same turn, I get a demand from Darius, he wants to have Gunpowder :lol . Go and die plz Darius. Btw, this has been the first demand, I've gotten for a long long time, Tachywaxons help on choosing my Opponents is really starting to pay out. But there is one thing I noticed: For getting these few demands, AIs have to be at peace with each other, because the "AI demands to join their war" has a very high chance with every AI, meaning, once AIs are in war, they will come to you and beg and demand the hell out of you. So it's really good, that the war from Cyrus, Saladin & Suleiman vs little Mansa is the only one.
Btw.: Viccy has finished Optics, and has continued with researching Nationalism. AI is really working as a team to help me now, and the Education block doesn't break yet. I don't trade Optics with Viccy, as she sits landlocked, and Mansa or the others are more behind in tech, so I can wait a little longer.
Aaaaaaaand, it's time for the next GP: Guess what, it's a GE from Kyoto ;D This again is ultra lucky, but any other GP would also have been ok, chances were like 5% or so. I decide, to save him for the meantime, there aren't any wonders that I fear not to get. Cuzco has started on Notre Dame instantly after the Engineering trade, and Cuzco is a Buro Capital and I'm running a GA, there is no way I'm gonna miss that wonder, unless some AI burns a GE, but then, I'm gonna conquer it. +2
is very very nice in a Sushi-game, you can imagine that, cities will be Size 30+ later, 
and will become very important.
Next GP comes from Bombay, chances are 20% for a great Prophet, will I finally get one? Last time, chances were 50%, I know one cannot add this, but chances are there, and 38% of the World are Hinduists, I've never had that in a game, could you imagine the generated by a Shrine this influential?
590 BC: Mansa goes Crazy, and bribes Viccy against the three Invaders, and what did he use for the bribe? PP!!! Thx Mansa, I wanted to trade Nationalism for that, "§$%&/()=) !111
580 BC: Lizzy gets a great Prophet and constructs the Church of Nativity, too bad I cannot invade her easily...
Same turn, I finally run out of and have to lower the Research to 70% . I have to look back on how long I've been doing deficit Research now, and it is: 970 BC! So by Failgold and by trades, the Incan Empire ran on 100% for almost 400y!!!
560 BC: The next, and the last (for this GA) GP arises. 20% chance on a Prophet, 20% chance on a GE and 60% chances for a GM, and guess what I get? Of course, another GE . I begged for a great Prophet, I cannot imagine how much the Shrine would have created, but well, whatever, 2 GEs aren't so bad, are they? ;D Question is: On what will I use them, atm, I'm thinking about instant-constructing the TM and the WS, maybe instead of the WS, build the Kremlin? Or gamble and not instant build TM? Does anyone know if AI pushes towards TM? I don't know, because I've always pushed so hard to it, that AI never had a chance to get it in any game, normally I have 10 pre-chopped Forrests saved only for that wonder, but in this game, there simply were too few Forrests, so waste a GE? You tell me if this idea is / was nonsense and if AI pushes to it.
Btw.: I've spied enough, to see what Roosevelt is researching. He is #4 on the list of AIs of which I see the research, it gets easier and easier.
And: Washington researched Optics! Time to get a nice trade with him, Engineering vs Optics:
I upgrade the Trireme to a Caravelle and there goes my beauty, on her way to circumnavigate the World :>
Also same turn: I cue Banks in all
cities. Problem: Universities still haven't finished! No problem till now, but maybe... Well, lets see later. This was all in 560 BC.
550 BC: This is awesome: Cyrus has gone all out with his troops, so Viccy is able to capture an undefended city from him . Also, Suleiman calls off his status as a Vassal, and gets to be a free independent state again. I conduct "the trade of ueberdoom #2": Optics vs 300g + a Revolution to CS + Pacifism (no Slavery during war!) + peace with Viccy! Now he has lost a city, cannot whip any units, and Sulei can't vassal back . "trade of ueberdoom #1" was convincing Mansa to revolutionize to CS and Pacifism too, now he cannot whip any units in war aswell .
I look if Suleiman, who is a little bit backwards, has the necessary techs and ressources to fight against high developed Viccy, but he has, if he hadn't, I would have traded them to him.
Also: GP #5 is born, it's another GS from Hamburg! I save him for the moment, and think about using him for bulbing part of Chemistry, would be nice to finally have some really powerful Workshops, especially while running all the GAs in CS!
If you have questions to which tech you can bulb with a specific great Person, here is a link with Great People Tech Preferences!
550 BC: As Viccy is not in war with Cyrus anymore, Mansa having lost a city approaches me and demands that I join war with Cyrus . This is something, that is really rediculous, I'm friendly with Cyrus, AI shouldn't be able to even ask me, but I won't start complaining now as I've done that already in all extent.
It's also the last turn of the GA. Now I could use a GS and a GE to chain the next one, but I don't want that. The Education block is still holding very well, Mansa researches Astronomy, I try to trade Education for to every Civ every turn to see if someone is short before finishing it, but nobody isn't. I revolutionize back to Slavery and OR which will come in handy with all the Universities still to finish and all the Banks that must be built, although, I don't wanna whip a lot, as the next GA with TM is only few turns away.
In the meantime, Pericles, Mansa, Frederick and Hatty have settled on some of the islands near Cuzco not enough to really make me mad, but enough so I decide to push Settlers again.
[End of GA #1]
540 BC: Even without the GA, the Incan Empire is performaing an amazing 1000 / turn at 100% of Research. Now, the CE really starts to develop. A big part still derives from working the Colossus coast, but I'm slowly and steadily building more and more Cottages. I also whip very lightly in the cities, some Barracks, some Terraces that were destroyed by Roosevelts spies or bad random events, a forge, nothing big, I want to keep the Population high for the chain of GAs that's coming. Now I know, that maybe it would have been right to whip at least the Universities for Oxford as they would take almost until they weren't needed anymore, but I didn't calculate that at that time.
Also: Inflation has begun! I just write this here, because it'll make up a large part of the Empires expenses at the end and I simply just noticed.
500 BC: Next Wonder that goes to Viccy, she builds the Hagia Sophia. I'd never build that, it's a pity I couldn't build it for Failgold, but Universities, Banks, Settlers, Notre Dame, Knights... There simply is no place for Failgold atm, but that doesn't matter, Research is at 100% again because I did some big trades of doom, the Education block is still holding, everything is good.
Here are some additional Screens for you to have a better clear view:
Finances:
Score, Religions and Diplomacy:
Graphs:
Demographics:
This time, I've attached a Save for you, if you wanna have a look at the Incan Empire at the time of 500 BC! Make sure to follow the next part of the Writeup, that will go online in the next hours, too!
630 BC: Foundation of Chuito, city #25.
Spoiler :
Also: I'm able to trade Guilds for PP from Darius. It's lucky that he researched it, without it, I would have had a full stop in research, because I have to wait for the Engineering trade to continue with Chemistry. Now I can research Economics very early, which will also give me the awesome Free Market Civic.
And: I break through the sonic wall of 1000
/ turn!Btw.: It's too early for you to notice, but it's early enough to mention it: I don't trade away Education to the AI. This is one of the backbones (is that correct english? ;D) of the Liberalism -> Medicine Slingshot, not trading Education. It's what I call: "The Education Block" . I found out, that AI has very little chance of researching it, as it will prefer other Techs first, see, how they're all teching the war-techs, Engineering, Guilds, Nationalism, Astronomy... By denying the AI the access to Education, one can stall Liberalism for some centuries, and this is one part allowing such huge things like the Slingshot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen this in at least 5 games now.
620 BC: The first University, the one in Cuzco completes! A little bit of Micro, aaaaand: 1060
/ turn ;D It's time for a picture of this great city, which should be working an Engineer since the beginning of the GA, but regrettably it doesn't .
610 BC: I trade PP vs DR with MM ;D
I don't need it, but as I've traded PP to Darius already, I can now also trade it to everyone for anything, Mansa would have gotten it either way, the others also, better I get something for it, even if it's "only" DR. Though, the Versaille Wonder isn't that bad with my settings, as you're going to see.
Next turn, so 600 BC, I trade DR vs Engineering with Sabrina:
Same turn, I get a demand from Darius, he wants to have Gunpowder :lol . Go and die plz Darius. Btw, this has been the first demand, I've gotten for a long long time, Tachywaxons help on choosing my Opponents is really starting to pay out. But there is one thing I noticed: For getting these few demands, AIs have to be at peace with each other, because the "AI demands to join their war" has a very high chance with every AI, meaning, once AIs are in war, they will come to you and beg and demand the hell out of you. So it's really good, that the war from Cyrus, Saladin & Suleiman vs little Mansa is the only one.
Btw.: Viccy has finished Optics, and has continued with researching Nationalism. AI is really working as a team to help me now, and the Education block doesn't break yet. I don't trade Optics with Viccy, as she sits landlocked, and Mansa or the others are more behind in tech, so I can wait a little longer.
Aaaaaaaand, it's time for the next GP: Guess what, it's a GE from Kyoto ;D This again is ultra lucky, but any other GP would also have been ok, chances were like 5% or so. I decide, to save him for the meantime, there aren't any wonders that I fear not to get. Cuzco has started on Notre Dame instantly after the Engineering trade, and Cuzco is a Buro Capital and I'm running a GA, there is no way I'm gonna miss that wonder, unless some AI burns a GE, but then, I'm gonna conquer it. +2
is very very nice in a Sushi-game, you can imagine that, cities will be Size 30+ later, and will become very important.Next GP comes from Bombay, chances are 20% for a great Prophet, will I finally get one? Last time, chances were 50%, I know one cannot add this, but chances are there, and 38% of the World are Hinduists, I've never had that in a game, could you imagine the
generated by a Shrine this influential?590 BC: Mansa goes Crazy, and bribes Viccy against the three Invaders, and what did he use for the bribe? PP!!! Thx Mansa, I wanted to trade Nationalism for that, "§$%&/()=) !111
580 BC: Lizzy gets a great Prophet and constructs the Church of Nativity, too bad I cannot invade her easily...
Same turn, I finally run out of
and have to lower the Research to 70% . I have to look back on how long I've been doing deficit Research now, and it is: 970 BC! So by Failgold and by trades, the Incan Empire ran on 100% for almost 400y!!!560 BC: The next, and the last (for this GA) GP arises. 20% chance on a Prophet, 20% chance on a GE and 60% chances for a GM, and guess what I get? Of course, another GE
. I begged for a great Prophet, I cannot imagine how much the Shrine would have created, but well, whatever, 2 GEs aren't so bad, are they? ;D Question is: On what will I use them, atm, I'm thinking about instant-constructing the TM and the WS, maybe instead of the WS, build the Kremlin? Or gamble and not instant build TM? Does anyone know if AI pushes towards TM? I don't know, because I've always pushed so hard to it, that AI never had a chance to get it in any game, normally I have 10 pre-chopped Forrests saved only for that wonder, but in this game, there simply were too few Forrests, so waste a GE? You tell me if this idea is / was nonsense and if AI pushes to it.Btw.: I've spied enough, to see what Roosevelt is researching. He is #4 on the list of AIs of which I see the research, it gets easier and easier.
And: Washington researched Optics! Time to get a nice trade with him, Engineering vs Optics:
I upgrade the Trireme to a Caravelle and there goes my beauty, on her way to circumnavigate the World :>
Also same turn: I cue Banks in all
cities. Problem: Universities still haven't finished! No problem till now, but maybe... Well, lets see later. This was all in 560 BC.550 BC: This is awesome: Cyrus has gone all out with his troops, so Viccy is able to capture an undefended city from him
. Also, Suleiman calls off his status as a Vassal, and gets to be a free independent state again. I conduct "the trade of ueberdoom #2": Optics vs 300g + a Revolution to CS + Pacifism (no Slavery during war!) + peace with Viccy! Now he has lost a city, cannot whip any units, and Sulei can't vassal back . "trade of ueberdoom #1" was convincing Mansa to revolutionize to CS and Pacifism too, now he cannot whip any units in war aswell .I look if Suleiman, who is a little bit backwards, has the necessary techs and ressources to fight against high developed Viccy, but he has, if he hadn't, I would have traded them to him.
Also: GP #5 is born, it's another GS from Hamburg! I save him for the moment, and think about using him for bulbing part of Chemistry, would be nice to finally have some really powerful Workshops, especially while running all the GAs in CS!
If you have questions to which tech you can bulb with a specific great Person, here is a link with Great People Tech Preferences!
550 BC: As Viccy is not in war with Cyrus anymore, Mansa having lost a city approaches me and demands that I join war with Cyrus
. This is something, that is really rediculous, I'm friendly with Cyrus, AI shouldn't be able to even ask me, but I won't start complaining now as I've done that already in all extent.It's also the last turn of the GA. Now I could use a GS and a GE to chain the next one, but I don't want that. The Education block is still holding very well, Mansa researches Astronomy, I try to trade Education for
to every Civ every turn to see if someone is short before finishing it, but nobody isn't. I revolutionize back to Slavery and OR which will come in handy with all the Universities still to finish and all the Banks that must be built, although, I don't wanna whip a lot, as the next GA with TM is only few turns away.In the meantime, Pericles, Mansa, Frederick and Hatty have settled on some of the islands near Cuzco not enough to really make me mad, but enough so I decide to push Settlers again.
[End of GA #1]
540 BC: Even without the GA, the Incan Empire is performaing an amazing 1000
/ turn at 100% of Research. Now, the CE really starts to develop. A big part still derives from working the Colossus coast, but I'm slowly and steadily building more and more Cottages. I also whip very lightly in the cities, some Barracks, some Terraces that were destroyed by Roosevelts spies or bad random events, a forge, nothing big, I want to keep the Population high for the chain of GAs that's coming. Now I know, that maybe it would have been right to whip at least the Universities for Oxford as they would take almost until they weren't needed anymore, but I didn't calculate that at that time.Also: Inflation has begun! I just write this here, because it'll make up a large part of the Empires expenses at the end and I simply just noticed.
500 BC: Next Wonder that goes to Viccy, she builds the Hagia Sophia. I'd never build that, it's a pity I couldn't build it for Failgold, but Universities, Banks, Settlers, Notre Dame, Knights... There simply is no place for Failgold atm, but that doesn't matter, Research is at 100% again because I did some big trades of doom, the Education block is still holding, everything is good.
Here are some additional Screens for you to have a better clear view:
Finances:
Score, Religions and Diplomacy:
Graphs:
Demographics:
This time, I've attached a Save for you, if you wanna have a look at the Incan Empire at the time of 500 BC! Make sure to follow the next part of the Writeup, that will go online in the next hours, too!
Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
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200 turns of GA
... I should read the patchnotes some time, would be really interesting to know what they did with which patch. Actually I find it a pity, that all the games with prior patch-versions than 3.19 still compete with the ones from 3.19 in the HoF, as 3.19 seems to be more difficult (don't know that for sure, but one thing I know i. e. is that with prior patches, tanks could be promoted to do collateral dmg and similar) . Anyway, it's ok.Ah, thx for the explanation. I thought about trading Astronomy very late, but for another reason: If one has Astronomy, one cannot bulb Bio as the GS will prefer Physics! Therefor, I didn't trade for it until after the Lib -> Med Slingshot.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Nice!
Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
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Now I told you this would be a lot of work for me, and a lot to read for you, so here is the next part of the Liberalism -> Medicine Slingshot! If it gets tl and you dl anymore, stick to the bold parts again.
490 BC: Berlin has finished on the GT and is fully functional. It has so much that it can whip a Knight every 2 turns. I didn't notice it when I played, but now that the round is over, I know: The GT is OP! Berlin will actually produce more troops than the HE city will! ZZZ will laugh at me that I didn't knew how powerful the GT was, and that I only found out by accident, because I actually built the GT just because I needed so many theaters against the pressure of Frederick and Hatty, and then thought "hey, why not make a GT Whip / Draft city some people talked of" . I really think, that a Food-rich city with the GT is an underestimated tactic, I haven't found it mentioned often in this forum, that's why I write this paragraph about it.
All in the same turn:
Someone bribes Roosevelt against Suleiman, I guess it was Viccy.
I win the Economics race. Nothing you wouldn't have expected from me, after having seen how well the Education Block functions. I get a GM and:
Start another golden Age using the latest GS! Actually, this was too early imho, I should have waited for Viccy to complete Nationalism and build the TM, but I was afraid that the Education Block could brake at some point, and that I woulnd't be able to at least Lib -> Bio. It is / was a decent decision though, as the Free Market Civic is very very powerful:
The Incan Empire does 1000 / turn before starting the GA.
After activation of the GA, it does 1185 / turn.
When switching to the Free Market Civic, / turn rises to 1275!
I do the usual tactics (switching to heavy tiles, run 3 GP Farms, I run Merchants this time btw., etc. ) and / turn goes down to 1100, but I need to finish those Universities somehow. I really should have whipped them, but that again would have ment the loss of a lot of Population, and if I had, I couldn't show you this:
Again, the Empire doubles its production with the GA.
480 BC: Circumnavigation!11
Also: I reduce Research to 70% to save some money, I wanna stall SM as lots of my Wonders will become obsolete then, and I wanna research Biology with 100%.
470 BC: Foundation of Chuquiapo, city #26:
Again, securin 2 times Seafood. I will later notice, how tremendously important it is on a huge map to get as much of the Seafood onesself, as trading for it is... well... Let's talk about that later XD
430 BC: I have an interesting Picture for you:
Now tell me: How is it possible, that Cologne stole the in the inner ring of Duesseldorf? How is it possible, that Macchu Picchu, one of the first cities I've founded, still doesn't get the Pigs which are in the outer ring of Stuttgart? I cannot explain it.
Funny to see: Darius cities getting crushed from the of Cuzco and Kyoto.
Seeing the research of the Civs is also interesting. It cannot be just by chance, that they're all researching Astronomy and Nationalism, those must be techs prioritized by the AI. By denying them Education, one can really hold them off from getting to Lib, I really think that!
Btw.: Now that the wars have broken out, diplomacy has become much more nerving. They all try to drag me into their wars, but I don't want to! I do not even have an army, what are they thinking, that I shall invade them with the Checkers that are guarding my cities? I'm on the last place in military at demographics, why are they coming to me? 
Last thing you can see on the Screen is, that next turn, I will be getting this:
Yay . Best thing: Roosevelt was building it too, he's got over 1000 ! I trade Guilds to him, and get another 1000 Gold by other trades and begging, I highten the Research to 80% again. This is better than Failgold Economy, I'm getting the Wonder and the Gold too XD
I trade and trade, get for small techs and make Civs revolutionize to crappy Pacifism, and 390 BC, a conduct a big trade with Viccy: DR + Banking + 2000 Gold vs Nationalism!
I didn't wanna give her Gunpowder, as I still hold the monopoly on that, and of course, I didn't wanna give her Education. This slows down my Research again, but it's a good trade nevertheless, as you'll know that I need Nationalism on the way to Corporations for which I'll need Constitution.
I use one of the GEs to build the TM in Kyoto, so this Screen is from 380 BC:
Now on the same turn, another GP is born, and it's a GS: I hoped that it would be a GM, I've used the one from Economics at the beginning of the post, I need one for Sushi, only way to use him is to bulb SM. I cannot bulb Biology, as I got Optics (I needed to trade it as I wanted Circumnavigation, remember) and that enables Astronomy! Now the GL and the Parthenon will become obsolete a little earlier, but as I will find out, those Wonders aren't that strong like I believed they'd be. Much later I will find out, that the best use of this GS would have been to bulb Physics, but I didn't knew that back then.
340 BC: More than 100 / turn through trade of Ressources. Just to keep you informed.
Mansa and Sulei conduct peace.
330 BC: A long hard war finds it's end, Cyrus and Mansa conduct peace. Cyrus has lost quite some units and now owns a size 1 city that is crushed under at the other end of the continent, well done Cyrus! XD
320 BC: Economy is really well, 1300 / turn. I need that, because Pericles has started on researching Education! It's too late for him though, next turn I'll get SM and after that, it's only 13 turns to Biology!
280 BC: Cyrus & Saladin vs Viccy! Also, Sulei conducts peace with Roosevelt! I don't notice, that they are sharing exactly the same wars now, so I don't anticipate what happens next:
Suleiman vassalizes to Cyrus again in 270 BC.
My He-City is pumping out Knights every 3 turns now, wow, that really took a long time for it to be set up!
260 BC: Viccy bribes Roosevelt against Cyrus, Saladin & Suleiman.
Cyrus and Viccy have lost quite some troops in the war, as I can see their power-ratio, I can take a picture of the graph to show you:
230 BC: Caesar constructs the sixtine Chappel. That was a wonder I was building aswell as Cuzco had nothing better to do, 1700 additional Gold and I'm swimming in it, 100% Research till Communism is secured!
220 BC: Foundation of Huanco Pampa, city #27. I'll post a picture of it for reasons I don't know, it's beginning to be so many cities, that they don't matter anymore but as numbers.
Same turn: The Education Block brakes!!! Frederick, someone I didn't spy on reached Education! It doesn't matter though, as I'm only 3 turns away from reaching Biology, and I don't think that Frederick can research Liberalism in 4 turns. But what has held for nearly a Millenium is now over.
190 BC: Biology
180 BC: Liberalism
Medicine:
OMFG!
I'm through with writing for the moment, I've written since last night, I guess at least 12h, excuse me now. The completition of the Writeup until Sushi shall follow today still.
Sera
490 BC: Berlin has finished on the GT and is fully functional. It has so much
that it can whip a Knight every 2 turns. I didn't notice it when I played, but now that the round is over, I know: The GT is OP! Berlin will actually produce more troops than the HE city will! ZZZ will laugh at me that I didn't knew how powerful the GT was, and that I only found out by accident, because I actually built the GT just because I needed so many theaters against the pressure of Frederick and Hatty, and then thought "hey, why not make a GT Whip / Draft city some people talked of" . I really think, that a Food-rich city with the GT is an underestimated tactic, I haven't found it mentioned often in this forum, that's why I write this paragraph about it.All in the same turn:
Someone bribes Roosevelt against Suleiman, I guess it was Viccy.
I win the Economics race. Nothing you wouldn't have expected from me, after having seen how well the Education Block functions. I get a GM and:
Start another golden Age using the latest GS! Actually, this was too early imho, I should have waited for Viccy to complete Nationalism and build the TM, but I was afraid that the Education Block could brake at some point, and that I woulnd't be able to at least Lib -> Bio. It is / was a decent decision though, as the Free Market Civic is very very powerful:
The Incan Empire does 1000
/ turn before starting the GA.After activation of the GA, it does 1185
/ turn.When switching to the Free Market Civic,
/ turn rises to 1275!I do the usual tactics (switching to
heavy tiles, run 3 GP Farms, I run Merchants this time btw., etc. ) and / turn goes down to 1100, but I need to finish those Universities somehow. I really should have whipped them, but that again would have ment the loss of a lot of Population, and if I had, I couldn't show you this:
Again, the Empire doubles its production with the GA.
480 BC: Circumnavigation!11
Also: I reduce Research to 70% to save some money, I wanna stall SM as lots of my Wonders will become obsolete then, and I wanna research Biology with 100%.
470 BC: Foundation of Chuquiapo, city #26:
Spoiler :
Again, securin 2 times Seafood. I will later notice, how tremendously important it is on a huge map to get as much of the Seafood onesself, as trading for it is... well... Let's talk about that later XD
430 BC: I have an interesting Picture for you:
Spoiler :
Now tell me: How is it possible, that Cologne stole the
in the inner ring of Duesseldorf? How is it possible, that Macchu Picchu, one of the first cities I've founded, still doesn't get the Pigs which are in the outer ring of Stuttgart? I cannot explain it.Funny to see: Darius cities getting crushed from the
of Cuzco and Kyoto.Seeing the research of the Civs is also interesting. It cannot be just by chance, that they're all researching Astronomy and Nationalism, those must be techs prioritized by the AI. By denying them Education, one can really hold them off from getting to Lib, I really think that!
Btw.: Now that the wars have broken out, diplomacy has become much more nerving. They all try to drag me into their wars, but I don't want to! I do not even have an army, what are they thinking, that I shall invade them with the Checkers that are guarding my cities?
I'm on the last place in military at demographics, why are they coming to me? Last thing you can see on the Screen is, that next turn, I will be getting this:
Yay
. Best thing: Roosevelt was building it too, he's got over 1000 ! I trade Guilds to him, and get another 1000 Gold by other trades and begging, I highten the Research to 80% again. This is better than Failgold Economy, I'm getting the Wonder and the Gold too XDI trade and trade, get
for small techs and make Civs revolutionize to crappy Pacifism, and 390 BC, a conduct a big trade with Viccy: DR + Banking + 2000 Gold vs Nationalism!
I didn't wanna give her Gunpowder, as I still hold the monopoly on that, and of course, I didn't wanna give her Education. This slows down my Research again, but it's a good trade nevertheless, as you'll know that I need Nationalism on the way to Corporations for which I'll need Constitution.
I use one of the GEs to build the TM in Kyoto, so this Screen is from 380 BC:
Now on the same turn, another GP is born, and it's a GS: I hoped that it would be a GM, I've used the one from Economics at the beginning of the post, I need one for Sushi, only way to use him is to bulb SM. I cannot bulb Biology, as I got Optics (I needed to trade it as I wanted Circumnavigation, remember) and that enables Astronomy! Now the GL and the Parthenon will become obsolete a little earlier, but as I will find out, those Wonders aren't that strong like I believed they'd be. Much later I will find out, that the best use of this GS would have been to bulb Physics, but I didn't knew that back then.
340 BC: More than 100
/ turn through trade of Ressources. Just to keep you informed.Mansa and Sulei conduct peace.
330 BC: A long hard war finds it's end, Cyrus and Mansa conduct peace. Cyrus has lost quite some units and now owns a size 1 city that is crushed under
at the other end of the continent, well done Cyrus! XD320 BC: Economy is really well, 1300
/ turn. I need that, because Pericles has started on researching Education! It's too late for him though, next turn I'll get SM and after that, it's only 13 turns to Biology!280 BC: Cyrus & Saladin vs Viccy! Also, Sulei conducts peace with Roosevelt! I don't notice, that they are sharing exactly the same wars now, so I don't anticipate what happens next:
Suleiman vassalizes to Cyrus again in 270 BC.
My He-City is pumping out Knights every 3 turns now, wow, that really took a long time for it to be set up!
260 BC: Viccy bribes Roosevelt against Cyrus, Saladin & Suleiman.
Cyrus and Viccy have lost quite some troops in the war, as I can see their power-ratio, I can take a picture of the graph to show you:
230 BC: Caesar constructs the sixtine Chappel. That was a wonder I was building aswell as Cuzco had nothing better to do, 1700 additional Gold and I'm swimming in it, 100% Research till Communism is secured!
220 BC: Foundation of Huanco Pampa, city #27. I'll post a picture of it for reasons I don't know, it's beginning to be so many cities, that they don't matter anymore but as numbers.
Spoiler :
Same turn: The Education Block brakes!!! Frederick, someone I didn't spy on reached Education! It doesn't matter though, as I'm only 3 turns away from reaching Biology, and I don't think that Frederick can research Liberalism in 4 turns. But what has held for nearly a Millenium is now over.
190 BC: Biology
180 BC: Liberalism
Medicine:
OMFG!
I'm through with writing for the moment, I've written since last night, I guess at least 12h, excuse me now. The completition of the Writeup until Sushi shall follow today still.
Sera
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Uh, that's quite amazing. On lower difficulties the techs which are being researched by you and the AI come thousand fivehundred years later...
Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
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When I first played Civ on Emperor, I was astonished, how well the timeline fitted, but once reaching Deity, I noticed that there was something severely wrong. It didn't feel right to have Tanks in medievil times. The game lost a lot of realism for me there, but the fun of playing didn't take any dmg. Games on Huge / Marathon with playing HC are simply far from the "normal / standart" settings, for which the game was made. Spoiler-Alert: In this game, I'm nearly gonna reach the end of the tech-tree.
Have recovered btw., next part of the Writeup going online soon, want to finish until Sushi today!
Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
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Ok, so here is the last part of a long Journey towards the cradle of high scores: Sid's Sushi Inc!
The last part of the writeup ended in 190 BC with reaching Medicine via Liberalism. Now 190 BC is a big turn, this is what also happened:
A GM is born in Hamburg! Just in time. The next GP arrives in 18 turns from Bombay, that'd be at 10 BC, that would be... Well, you'll see.
I conduct a big very important Trade: Nationalism + Education vs Astronomy + Revolution to Pacifism + 500 with Mansa Musa!
A big gain and a big loss. The Colossus Coast was of great use, but settling the islands while spreading Sushi (and conquering the World) are the main objects now, after the completition of the Slingshot. I even delay the Banks a little further and cue more Settlers, this may turn out as a wrong decision.
I research one turn into Constitution and next turn: I conduct another important trade: Astronomy vs Constitution with Viccy!
This trade is very good to analyze the trade-mechanics with Deity-AIs (don't know if this is also true for lower difficulty lvl AIs) : Astronomy is worth 11700 , Constitution is also 11700. You see, that the trade is as good as even with me having put 3600 already in it. 3600 is about 30% of 11700 , so if you want to know, how many you have to put into a tech to get it for a tech of the same worth, multiply the tech you want by 0.7! In this example, 11700 * 0.7 = 8190 . Now you got the value of your tech for the AI, Tech (x) * 0,7 = Tech (x) Value for AI. The Value of the AI Tech towards the player is the normal cost of research, so in this case 11700, now substract 8190 from 11700 (AI Player wants to have - (AI Player offers * 0,7)) and you get the 3600 I've invested into it. So (AI Tech - (Player Tech * 0.7)) = amount of Beakers that have to be researched to break even.
Now all we need further to understand AIs trade-mechanics, is the exchange ratio from to , if one wants "to buy a tech" . This I find out by going back one turn and not researching anything into Constitution. Here is what would have happened in the same round:
Interessting, hm? XD 3600 instead of 3600 means, that the exchange ratio is simply 1:1! So with having Libraries, Universities, Buro, Oxford, whatever, you'll always be better of, if you research the necessary beakers. You can actually gain money but this if done properly. Anyhow, the fastest way of course would be to always buy the techs and in addition research something else with 100%, but there are rare occasions, where one has so much .
This was a little excursion on trade-mechanics! In short: (AI Tech - (Player Tech * 0.7) = x or that are necessary in addition to the tech. I hope this helps you to get better control over your trades in your Civ-future, I does for me :>
Back to the year of 170 BC: I start on Researching Democracy. I want that tech at to revolutionize to US at the end of the GA. In the meantime, I at last enjoy the benefits of Constitution fueled Specialists from 3 cities, which instantly give back the lost by the Colossus.
Same turn, Sabrina builds the Spiral Minaret. As you already have guessed, one of my cities was building that Wonder, so I get 1050 for it. I'm getting richer and richer, but you'll soon see, how fast one can burn so much money with the help of US.
And just to keep you informed: Ressource-Trade brings in 123 / turn atm.
150 BC: Viccy conducts peace with Cyrus, Saladin and Suleiman. A long war, in which no side could gain any advantage, is over again.
130 BC: Foundation of Tambocchocha. city #28.
Same turn: Oxford finally starts on its construction. This is way too late and definately a major flaw in my game.
100 BC: Foundation of Huaras. city #29.
90 BC: I found Riobamba, city #30.
80 BC: Democracy finishes, and I have to make a decision: Research Corps and get Sushi in the BCs, or, trade for Corps (Viccy is researching it), research Communism, and fail this goal. I decide, that I have to go the logical way, I need the Kremlin for rushing all those Banks and Executives, it's lucky that Viccy researches Corps, I cannot play beautifully just to surprise you with a "Sushi in the BCs" . But I could have, if I wanted, just to make that clear. I could have had Sids Sushi Inc in the BCs, something, I don't know if anybody has achieved yet, but maybe next time.
70 BC: After Mansas city Walata has passed from Cyrus to Roosevelt, both conduct peace. The world is ok again, no wars, no AIs getting on my nerves, screwing up my diplomacy.
Same Turn, I found Caxamalca, city #32. I've forgotten to mention one, really doesn't matter, 32 cities now.
60 BC: Foundation of Tambo Colorado, city #33.
Through the whole time, I accumulate more and more money through giving AI the last few turns of their techs. I can see the Research of nearly anybody now, I wait until they have money, then offer the tech to them, often put a Revolution on top of the table, AI always looses, I win. Lots of EPs through Courthouses ftw.
40 BC: Caesar gets the award of "the Dumbest Credible AI" , he researches Liberalism though having the Shwedagon Paya
10 BC: The next great Person arrives from Bombay, and it has a 13% chance of getting a great Prophet, I already had a 50% chance and a 20% chance, will I finally have some deserved luck? No, a GM is born.
It's also the last turn of GA #3 and I do not have the GPs to chain #4 yet, so I have to revolutionize again. I choose US + Slavery + Theocracy!
1 AD: The GA-Chain is finally interrupted and I'm back in Slavery again, for the last time, it's time, to Whip like there is no tomorrow! If you have doughts if this is the right move, just remember that at the end of the round, I have to bring up over 17k of / turn, I desperately need some Infrastructure, mainly Banks but also Grocers and even some Markets. I also need Units, Settlers, and Knights I'm going to Upgrade to Cavs. It's too late for Cuirrassiers, some AIs are already researching MT, and btw, I think that Cuirrs suck! Maybe a little exaguration, but a Cav is imho twice as strong as a Cuirr with it's 30% withdrawl chance. Cuirrs against LBs, I always loose about half of my army, with Cavs + Airships, I maybe loose once ine a while to a Rifleman or an MG, but normally, AI doen't have those at the time I plan to reach Cavs, even with that overly big detour to Sushi!
It can't be described in words, I will only give you pictures of "the Massacre in the Incan Empire" :
Before the Massacre: Nearly 15 Mio happy Incans.
After the Massacre: 12 Mio have survived.
So more than 2 Mio of happily living Incans, slaughtered in the night that Christ was born. This fits very well with the Discovery of Communism *veg* .
Same turn: I rush the Kremlin with the 2nd GE.
10 AD: The Kremlin
Another questionable decision, maybe I should have saved the GE for the Construction of the Wall Street, it's more expensive in means of as it isn't fastened up by any ressource, and atm, I can also whip the Execs and wanna research Physics for the GS to start the last GA, so no money anyway to rush buy a lot of things. Definately another major fault in my game. I'm beginning to show severe weaknesses in my play, I make wrong decisions, but I'm too unexperienced still, so excuse me. This Writeup is also there for me to make it better next time.
Same turn: Foundation of Huaca, city #34.
And: I rush-buy some Terraces and burn my whole that I've left, another wrong decision, as this will delay the GA even further, and I need that 4th GA! Research is still stable at 70%, but you'll see how I will nearly go bankrupt, once I reach Sushi.
20 AD: Oxford completes but it's too late, I'm shortly before a full stop of Research. I also found Tumbes, city #35, but the only good thing atm is Berlin, the GT-city, which really rocks. During the GAs, it has grown to Size 20, you cannot believe how many Knights I whip out of it and how fast it regrows, I believe, that at least half of my Knights-Stack (I'm gonna show you once it is complete) if not more came out of Berlin!
30 AD: Foundation of Chan Chan, city #36, and, finally, the big moment is there: SM vs Corps + 550g + a Revolution with Viccy!
Sooooooooooooo:
Taaaddaaaaaaaaa!
This is the end of the Writeup for today. I could have reached Sids Sushi in the BCs, but trading for Corps with Viccy and getting Communism in the meantime was the better solution, that delayed it until 30 BC, a time, of which I'm still impressed, but I want to beat that in my next game. You've seen some very solid play of mine, and you've seen some major mistakes. Hopefully they'll not cost me the game? Keep reading and keep posting, the next part will follow tomorrow, maybe the day after tomorrow, so stay tuned and cya!
Seraiel
The last part of the writeup ended in 190 BC with reaching Medicine via Liberalism. Now 190 BC is a big turn, this is what also happened:
A GM is born in Hamburg! Just in time. The next GP arrives in 18 turns from Bombay, that'd be at 10 BC, that would be... Well, you'll see.
I conduct a big very important Trade: Nationalism + Education vs Astronomy + Revolution to Pacifism + 500
with Mansa Musa!
A big gain and a big loss. The Colossus Coast was of great use, but settling the islands while spreading Sushi (and conquering the World) are the main objects now, after the completition of the Slingshot. I even delay the Banks a little further and cue more Settlers, this may turn out as a wrong decision.
I research one turn into Constitution and next turn: I conduct another important trade: Astronomy vs Constitution with Viccy!
This trade is very good to analyze the trade-mechanics with Deity-AIs (don't know if this is also true for lower difficulty lvl AIs) : Astronomy is worth 11700
, Constitution is also 11700. You see, that the trade is as good as even with me having put 3600 already in it. 3600 is about 30% of 11700 , so if you want to know, how many you have to put into a tech to get it for a tech of the same worth, multiply the tech you want by 0.7! In this example, 11700 * 0.7 = 8190 . Now you got the value of your tech for the AI, Tech (x) * 0,7 = Tech (x) Value for AI. The Value of the AI Tech towards the player is the normal cost of research, so in this case 11700, now substract 8190 from 11700 (AI Player wants to have - (AI Player offers * 0,7)) and you get the 3600 I've invested into it. So (AI Tech - (Player Tech * 0.7)) = amount of Beakers that have to be researched to break even.Now all we need further to understand AIs trade-mechanics, is the exchange ratio from
to , if one wants "to buy a tech" . This I find out by going back one turn and not researching anything into Constitution. Here is what would have happened in the same round:
Interessting, hm? XD 3600
instead of 3600 means, that the exchange ratio is simply 1:1! So with having Libraries, Universities, Buro, Oxford, whatever, you'll always be better of, if you research the necessary beakers. You can actually gain money but this if done properly. Anyhow, the fastest way of course would be to always buy the techs and in addition research something else with 100%, but there are rare occasions, where one has so much .This was a little excursion on trade-mechanics! In short: (AI Tech - (Player Tech * 0.7) = x
or that are necessary in addition to the tech. I hope this helps you to get better control over your trades in your Civ-future, I does for me :>Back to the year of 170 BC: I start on Researching Democracy. I want that tech at to revolutionize to US at the end of the GA. In the meantime, I at last enjoy the benefits of Constitution fueled Specialists from 3 cities, which instantly give back the
lost by the Colossus.Same turn, Sabrina builds the Spiral Minaret. As you already have guessed, one of my cities was building that Wonder, so I get 1050
for it. I'm getting richer and richer, but you'll soon see, how fast one can burn so much money with the help of US.And just to keep you informed: Ressource-Trade brings in 123
/ turn atm.150 BC: Viccy conducts peace with Cyrus, Saladin and Suleiman. A long war, in which no side could gain any advantage, is over again.
130 BC: Foundation of Tambocchocha. city #28.
Same turn: Oxford finally starts on its construction. This is way too late and definately a major flaw in my game.
100 BC: Foundation of Huaras. city #29.
90 BC: I found Riobamba, city #30.
80 BC: Democracy finishes, and I have to make a decision: Research Corps and get Sushi in the BCs, or, trade for Corps (Viccy is researching it), research Communism, and fail this goal. I decide, that I have to go the logical way, I need the Kremlin for rushing all those Banks and Executives, it's lucky that Viccy researches Corps, I cannot play beautifully just to surprise you with a "Sushi in the BCs" . But I could have, if I wanted, just to make that clear. I could have had Sids Sushi Inc in the BCs, something, I don't know if anybody has achieved yet, but maybe next time.
70 BC: After Mansas city Walata has passed from Cyrus to Roosevelt, both conduct peace. The world is ok again, no wars, no AIs getting on my nerves, screwing up my diplomacy.
Same Turn, I found Caxamalca, city #32. I've forgotten to mention one, really doesn't matter, 32 cities now.
60 BC: Foundation of Tambo Colorado, city #33.
Through the whole time, I accumulate more and more money through giving AI the last few turns of their techs. I can see the Research of nearly anybody now, I wait until they have money, then offer the tech to them, often put a Revolution on top of the table, AI always looses, I win. Lots of EPs through Courthouses ftw.
40 BC: Caesar gets the award of "the Dumbest Credible AI" , he researches Liberalism though having the Shwedagon Paya
10 BC: The next great Person arrives from Bombay, and it has a 13% chance of getting a great Prophet, I already had a 50% chance and a 20% chance, will I finally have some deserved luck? No, a GM is born.
It's also the last turn of GA #3 and I do not have the GPs to chain #4 yet, so I have to revolutionize again. I choose US + Slavery + Theocracy!
1 AD: The GA-Chain is finally interrupted and I'm back in Slavery again, for the last time, it's time, to Whip like there is no tomorrow! If you have doughts if this is the right move, just remember that at the end of the round, I have to bring up over 17k of
/ turn, I desperately need some Infrastructure, mainly Banks but also Grocers and even some Markets. I also need Units, Settlers, and Knights I'm going to Upgrade to Cavs. It's too late for Cuirrassiers, some AIs are already researching MT, and btw, I think that Cuirrs suck! Maybe a little exaguration, but a Cav is imho twice as strong as a Cuirr with it's 30% withdrawl chance. Cuirrs against LBs, I always loose about half of my army, with Cavs + Airships, I maybe loose once ine a while to a Rifleman or an MG, but normally, AI doen't have those at the time I plan to reach Cavs, even with that overly big detour to Sushi!It can't be described in words, I will only give you pictures of "the Massacre in the Incan Empire" :
Before the Massacre: Nearly 15 Mio happy Incans.
After the Massacre: 12 Mio have survived.
So more than 2 Mio of happily living Incans, slaughtered in the night that Christ was born. This fits very well with the Discovery of Communism *veg* .
Same turn: I rush the Kremlin with the 2nd GE.
10 AD: The Kremlin
Another questionable decision, maybe I should have saved the GE for the Construction of the Wall Street, it's more expensive in means of
as it isn't fastened up by any ressource, and atm, I can also whip the Execs and wanna research Physics for the GS to start the last GA, so no money anyway to rush buy a lot of things. Definately another major fault in my game. I'm beginning to show severe weaknesses in my play, I make wrong decisions, but I'm too unexperienced still, so excuse me. This Writeup is also there for me to make it better next time.Same turn: Foundation of Huaca, city #34.
And: I rush-buy some Terraces and burn my whole
that I've left, another wrong decision, as this will delay the GA even further, and I need that 4th GA! Research is still stable at 70%, but you'll see how I will nearly go bankrupt, once I reach Sushi.20 AD: Oxford completes but it's too late, I'm shortly before a full stop of Research. I also found Tumbes, city #35, but the only good thing atm is Berlin, the GT-city, which really rocks. During the GAs, it has grown to Size 20, you cannot believe how many Knights I whip out of it and how fast it regrows, I believe, that at least half of my Knights-Stack (I'm gonna show you once it is complete) if not more came out of Berlin!
30 AD: Foundation of Chan Chan, city #36, and, finally, the big moment is there: SM vs Corps + 550g + a Revolution with Viccy!
Sooooooooooooo:
Taaaddaaaaaaaaa!
This is the end of the Writeup for today. I could have reached Sids Sushi in the BCs, but trading for Corps with Viccy and getting Communism in the meantime was the better solution, that delayed it until 30 BC, a time, of which I'm still impressed, but I want to beat that in my next game. You've seen some very solid play of mine, and you've seen some major mistakes. Hopefully they'll not cost me the game? Keep reading and keep posting, the next part will follow tomorrow, maybe the day after tomorrow, so stay tuned and cya!
Seraiel
need to change your BC to AD.
Still 30 AD sushi is pretty good. I thought your CS, paper, Edu was very late, but you made up time by investing in a huge productive empire (and trading a lot)
Still 30 AD sushi is pretty good. I thought your CS, paper, Edu was very late, but you made up time by investing in a huge productive empire (and trading a lot)
MarigoldRan
WARLORD
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2011
- Messages
- 2,349
I'll get back to civ IV as soon as I find my game....
In the meantime, enjoying your posts. Keep it up.
In the meantime, enjoying your posts. Keep it up.
So, if you had to rank your opponents, how would you? or if not ranking, at least group them into "must haves", "like to have", etc.
....and why for each.
Mansa is the obvious must have and you must not kill him.
I never play with the Toku type. Sure it would be nice to have someone for everyone to hate, but in your game, you don't have that because you ended up killing him early. He is not an easy first kill, so do you regret including him at all? Seems like your game would have been better off without a Toku-like opponent.
Other than him, I usually include the same bunch, but not Willem. What's the reasoning there? and how did he work out for you in this game? I don't recall hearing his name, and I've read the whole thread.
Any other personalities clash? or work well?
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
He was one of the AIs isolated on an island (like Viccy).
And could you explain why you don't like him? I thought he was like Mansa, but in lesser proportions.
What I don't get is why Cyrus is in here. Isn't he quite likely to start a war?
Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2011
- Messages
- 8,165
Thx first. I was impressed myself how early I was actually able to not only reach Sushi but also Democracy + Communism which is needed for my Kremlin + US Tactic. Trading is one of my absolut specialties, I could have even written more about it, as I really spend a lot of thoughts to that, it's amazing how one can constrain the AIs by what I call "trades of doom" (i. e. convincing Mansa and Cyrus to got for CS / Pacifism while in war, the general concept of getting Revolitions on top short before they're reaching a tech and by that slowing them down, etc.) and VoU pointed another thing out to me:
What I describe as "the Education Block" maybe only worked so well, because I research MC so early, enabling the AI to research Military Techs, which it prefers, instead of the Liberalism Route. Maybe, one has to pay further attention to this point and always enable every AI to research something of greater importance than Education -> Lib.
And at last, I think, there are various styles to play the game. Many people here tell to go with small empires, especially on Deity, I think, if playing Huge, one has to think Huge and get as much as possible, otherwise Domination will be to difficult. Building all Cottage cities is something, that will turn out as a "necessity" in the end, when I will have to bring up the insane 17k of
, though, what I always underestimate, are pure cities, as they get productive so much earlier and need a lot less buildings to produce money via Wealth at some time.Welcome back, and nice your in the boat too
Looking forward to a replay about you playing Rome .Toku imho is a must-have, and it was extremely unlucky in this round, that he started next to me. I've already played further games till now, and it really works very well that everybody hates him. On the other side, one can get him as a friend, by gifting him cities. One only has to make sure, that one does this via the domestic advisor, as otherwise, the other AIs will get mad for "trading with WE" .
Another good thing about toku is, that he really seldomly asks for anything, otoh it's bad, that one always gets -2 for denying his demands. Maybe someone like GK, who screwed up in all my games till now, is better. This is basically of having 1 AI in the game as a meatshield and hateguy.
The -2 modifier also shows up with Ghandi when attacking his enemies, but I guess Ghandi is someone, that even if one is his WE, gets not to be dangerous, and he always founds Hinduism and often Judaism in my games, meaning he always goes the religious route, that's something good because it makes him easily conquerable in the beginning and later on, his cities are very worthy as he understands the mechanic of building Shrines.
Getting Shrines which can be conquered early and founding Religions is also something I notice about Mansa and especially Hatty, so I would always take them in my games too, Mansa in addition of course for the obvious "trade-whoring" but Hatty is one to open up the route to paper via Theology very early with her great Prophet lightbulbs, and it's easy to get her as a friend because she always gives +2 - +4 for the Civics.
Willem is someone who Tachywaxon already said may be a wrong choice, because he can declare at pleased, so he's a Backstabber. I chose him, because he seldomly gets on ones nerves with values of 250 - 1000 for demanding anything, and another good thing about him is, that he is willing to trade ressources at annoyed, something that will help me in the end of the round, when I got massive maluses for having so many vassals. So one has to watch out for him, but I think, he's a good choice.
Any "don't take these" leaders are of course Catherine and the bunch of IMP leaders (with the exception of GK) as they expand to fast, and Cathy is fearsome. Hannibal is also one of the worst choices one can make, I had him in my first game, and he warmongered like there was no tomorrow, and his Numidians are really strong. Suleiman is also fearsome but I usually still take him and make friends with him, he doesn't tech so badly, so it's normally easy, and he can be a strong pet. Of course, there is absolutely no thinking about taking more than one AGG leader in the game, as those can really screw ones diplomacy as "demand to join war" is 25 with all leaders, for a Sushi-Diplomacy, one wants as little wars as possible, and of course, PRO leaders are also a no-go as they can screw up the Checker-Rush, that's the main reason why I decided against Burger King, even though his values are really good.
Viccy and Lizzy always make good Tradepartners as they tech fast and are not as op as Zara, who I had in some rounds before this, and he was so strong, that I had to give my all to defeat him.
Good choices for weak leaders are of course the american AIs, though Washington can be a pain in the ass with his demands, because he goes to WHEOORHN with a value of 100 if denying him.
Btw.: I decided against Asoka, because he has only a 100 when asking for help, all the leaders I took, have 250 or more, and that's a big difference. Asking for help is one of the most annnoying things imho. Augustus btw is an incredibly good choice imho, he turned out to be so weak, he's nothing against Julius, and Bismarck also turned out to be so weak again, he should learn from Frederick, who isn't so strong either but definately the better german AI.
I think, the leaders I took for this round are really well chosen, that's why I'm going to continue to play with them. I have to do some more code-reading though, I think my choices were something like 90% perfect, so there's still room for developement.
Any tipps you can give me? Any favourites of yours?
See above, Willem is a Backstabber, that's why people don't like him, he can declare at pleased.
And Cyrus has a good "Base Attitude", so it's easy to make friends with him. He is likely to declare war, but I had to go for some compromises because of the large number of opponents. Cyrus is good, because he always goes AH in the beginning (meaning not BW -> Slavery) so he's easy to conquer, and later on, it's easy to make friends with him, so one doesn't have to fear his strenght.
TY, and I will
Sera
