Replay #5 A history of heroes!

[Zx Zero Zx]

I'll chalk that up as my "new Civ4 mechanic learned for the day." Had no idea that it was harder to get techs in peace deals on slower game speeds. Does this really also apply to war bribes - you only need give them 1/3 as much effective tech to start a war?

Wow me too. I had no idea the AI needed less tech to go to war on slower speeds.

 

[Pangaea]

Very surprising to me too, but now I understand why it seems so easy to bribe people into war on marathon while it costs a fortune on normal, and the AI is very reluctant to hand over techs when capitulating (at least in my limited experience).

Great start so far. As others mentioned, it's incredible you can do everything simultaneously. It's one thing to have the capability via being the Incans, but actually pulling it off.... Wow.

 

[Choggy]

Great read so far Seraiel...I'm loving the ongoing rage battles you're having with those PRO archers

 

[Seraiel]

Episode 3
BigBossPlayer is dead! Long live BigBossPlayer!​

The new episode starts with an awesome victory, the Checkers in Washington, led by BigBossPlayer, are able to wipe out the roaming english Barbarians:

It starts with the foundation of city #14 in a great coastal site, the city's name is "Vilcas":

And it starts with great Tragedy. Here is the scene: BigBossPlayer was looking for mushrooms in the woods near Washington again, when a sole Archer of Churchill approaches him:

Now just a little Math about this: BigBossPlayer is a Checker, so has +100% against Archers and Combat I, he's a Great General I promoted to Tactics, giving him 30% Withdrawl-chance, and he is in the Woods, giving him additional 50% defense bonus. The strength of a Checker is that of a Warrior, it's 2, so BigBossPlayer has a strength of 2*2.6 = 5.2 in this case. The Archer has Combat I and Drill I, giving him 1.5 Firststrikes, so to keep it easy, let's say he has almost Combat II, so a strength of 3.5.

Now 3.5 against 5+ is already a heavily weighted fight, one would expect the STR 5 units to have great winning odds of at least 70%. Now this STR 5 unit is no normal unit though, it's a Tactics-GG, having 30% Withdrawl, so he should have a survival chance of 100%, right? (If someone can find out the real odds of this, plz tell me, I think my calculations are quite near the truth. )

But we forgot one thing: This is BigBossPlayer and he's not paying attention, never! Now look what happens when the sole Archer notices this and attacks him! (To the defense of BigBossPlayer: He's so good, that he actually wins Deity without ever paying attention.

BIGBOSSPLAYER LETS HIMSELF GET FARMED IN A 100% FIGHT !

Omg -.- . I couldn't believe this, when I saw it. I didn't expect Churchill to even have the courage to attack a Checker in the woods, but winning against a Tatcics-promoted unit that itself is aleady a lot stronger than the attacker? I have absolutely no words for this.

Darius though has heard of the loss and knows the Incan empire is severely weakend, here he goes, taking his chances...

... to get my middle finger again !

660 ? Is AI kidding me? I have twice the power of the 2nd, ok, my military is paper-thin, but demanding my complete treasury? He must have been really desperate to try this. It's one of the things where I just hate Civilzation for being so unrealistic, just imagine the Incans in this game, they're known to be a terrifying Civilization that wiped out the Americans, the Germans and the English, the Incan empire is huge, it's like the old UDSSR (USSR in english? I mean the old Russia from the cold war. ), it has constructed some of the most impressive World Wonders, and Darius? He's the smallest empire in this world, he got about 1/3 as many cities as the Incans have, what does he think his Warriors am, Immortal?

Still have no words for this chain of events, lets just continue with the Incan empire being in a state of grief about the loss of one of their heros.


Still in 1360 BC, the Heroic Epic (York) and the Great Library (Berlin) go into construction, now that I have Marble. The National Epic is already queued for after the GL.

1340 BC: Foundation of Vilcabamba.

The AIs keep bugging me, now that one of my cities has Islam, they want to show me how much of a pain in the neck they really can be, they're making a contest out of it:

Anyhow, I now got Iron connected, "wait until my numberless Swordsmen will swarm the earth!"

Another clearview, showing basically what's going on atm. I won the Musicrace in 1320 BC, nothing too surprising. I have to say something to that because WastinTime will get annoyed if I don't: I decided for Music instead of directly going for Civil Service / Paper because Lizzy had CoL, and I normally don't research techs that AI already has. I presumed that someone would go Theology, and that I would be able to trade it from him somehow, Mansa often goes Theology. Anyhow, the waiting took longer than I'd have expected. On the screen you see me researching Construction very late, something I was absolutely against at that point of the game, AI always researched Construction for me, but I needed those Catapults to get rid of Churchill now, and didn't have more advanced research-options. Basically a poor decision that I had to make because I didn't beeline Civil Service / Paper ignoring that AI has the pre-techs already, but anyhow, with Music I got great Tradegood should they change their mind and be willing to trade now, and I got a Great Artist, something I like very much because I don't push Great Person production so hard in the beginning and have a GLH-polluted GS-Pool in Berlin, should I get a GM instead of a GS for an Academy, I would be able to use the GA for an early GA and easily create a GS in a short amount of time.


I'm babbling, let me focus and tell you about the plans I have:

• Use the Great Prophet from Washington to build a Shrine and ease my Economy.
• Create a GS soonly afterwards in Berlin, found an Academy in Cuzco, basically, develop Research. If I get a GM, start a Golden Age to create a GS.
• REX.
• Build Swordsmen on top of the Checkers that I constructed in the meantime.
• Build Catapults.
• Finally end this war that has been going on for way too long already.
• Build Missionaries and convert Roosevelt, so I can get Calendar from him.
• After that, conquer the MoM, that Roosevelt has constructed some turns ago.
• Get Theology through trade, continue with researching Paper -> Education.
• Convert more Civs to Judaism, using Missionaries, basically, find tradepartners other than Mansa.

Here is how these plans play out:

1280 BC, Roosevelt also researches Construction -.- . Thx AI for always researching what I research (remember Lizzy having researched Asthetics 2 turns after I researched it) .

1220 BC, I get Theology through trade with Mansa:

Research is directed towards Paper.

I have founded the city of Vitcos:

Now prepare for the biggest luck you'll ever see, same turn, I convert Lizzy to Judaism giving her Literature:

One turn later, I get the following random event:

YES! "Of course, announce a national celebration!" This brings Lizzy to friendly instantly, so I can conduct some an extremely valuable trade:

I get Metalcasting and CoL, both being Monopoly techs of Lizzy.


1200 BC: I've spread Judaism enough to Roosevelt to convert him to it again.

This gets him to friendly, so I can trade Calendar from him in exchange for Theology:

Because having gotten 2 techs nobody but Lizzy has, I'm able to also trade Feudalism from Mansa:

The tech-screen looks very good after those trades:

So I ain't really got a tech-lead over anybody, having a monopoly tech, but I have everything except HBR which I don't need, and I have something to trade with everyone.

I also found the city of Andahuaylas:

So I'm up to 17 cities now. Biggest empire behind me is Ramesses with 11 cities.

1180 BC, Washington joins the war around Churchill. Hatty leaves it though, but with Washington having joined, I'm still getting Diplopoints with 5 Civs for it.

I also order all Swords, Checkers and Catapults that I can barely spare towards Churchill, the time for his extinction has come .

1160 BC, Willem is the 2nd to settle behind my Borders. You could see Lizzy's city in the south of my empire already on one of the first screens, now it's Willem who takes a spot I'd really like to have had, but I don't mind, there are still some spots in the Jungle to settle, this is only to show that space is getting rare.

1100 BC, a Great Prophet arises!

He founds the Temple of Salomon, giving an amazing +43 GPT, allowing me to raise Research from 40% to 60%!

1070 BC, Hatty builds the Colossus. I don't mind that she has it, she is my friend and I can need strong researching friends. I'm also not working a lot coastal tiles atm. , so it wouldn't have benefitted me anyway.


1050 BC is the end of this post. It ends with having completed the Research of Paper, and it ends with a view at the worldmap:

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Will the Incans finally succeed with their conquest over the english Barbarians? Will I get the Mausoleum of Maussollos? When will I finally start a Golden Age? Read more about that in the next episode of Replay #5 A History of Heroes! Till then

Seraiel

 

[Seraiel]

I'll chalk that up as my "new Civ4 mechanic learned for the day." Had no idea that it was harder to get techs in peace deals on slower game speeds. Does this really also apply to war bribes - you only need give them 1/3 as much effective tech to start a war?

I cannot tell you anything about conversion factors, only about what I heard, and what I see in my games. Techs are a lot more expensive on Huge and on Marathon (it's not only the game-speed, it's also the map-size that matters here) . How much you have to give for a bribe depends on the difference in the power-ratio of the 2 empires. Now if I'm already in war with someone, everybody joining me gets my power-rating on top of his, making a huge power-rating, so cheap bribes. Now if 5 Civs are already in war with one target, it's not only ultimately cheap to bribe others against the poor fella, also the Civs themselves will conduct bribes against him, resulting in everybody against one.

As for techs through a peace-deal: I'm normally able to get between 200 (early) and 800 (middle to late) for a peace-deal. Because the tech-costs are a lot higher on Huge and on Marathon, it's impossible to get a tech in a peace-treaty, 800 (late war) is less than IW is worth on those settings (IW is about 1200 on Huge Marathon) . I wouldn't wonder, if there would exist no scaling at all for this, and that it was just sheer power-ratio-difference.

Wow me too. I had no idea the AI needed less tech to go to war on slower speeds.

This is a difference, it's not necessarily an advantage to the player, because being in war onesself, it also takes the AI a lot less to bribe other AIs against one. For high-lvl-players it's of course only an advantage, because they control everything / make sure nobody can be bribed / declares war because of stupid peace-vassalage / whatsoever.

Very surprising to me too, but now I understand why it seems so easy to bribe people into war on marathon while it costs a fortune on normal, and the AI is very reluctant to hand over techs when capitulating (at least in my limited experience).

Great start so far. As others mentioned, it's incredible you can do everything simultaneously. It's one thing to have the capability via being the Incans, but actually pulling it off.... Wow.

Again, Marathon, and Huge maps, not only Marathon.

And thx . I always ask myself: "What is the most I can get out of this turn" and "what do I want in 5, 10 and 20 turns" . Like that, I maximise everything and plan ahead. Experience helps me to find similar situations and to know how to develop my overall game and to know what will be in 50 turns.

Great read so far Seraiel...I'm loving the ongoing rage battles you're having with those PRO archers

I'm also allowed to have fun sometimes. If I would (or could) only play effective and by what's best, I'd maybe have scored 4M in this game, but then, I'd again would have gotten totally frustrated, and it was already hard to finish this game at all.

Cya all, Sera

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

This is a difference, it's not necessarily an advantage to the player, because being in war onesself, it also takes the AI a lot less to bribe other AIs against one. For high-level-players it's of course only an advantage, because they control everything / make sure nobody can be bribed / declares war because of stupid peace-vassalage / whatsoever.

It's huge. I could have the world at war while still maintaining a large tech lead. This is just another reason Maranoob is easier!

 

[BornInCantaloup]

@ Marathon Bribres:
Don't overreact
Churchill is kept artificially alive in this game and dwells in the mire of the scoreboard.

How much would it take to bribe against Mansa/Willem ?

 

[Seraiel]

Special Cast: Incans vs Egyptians​

Two empires compared at 1000 BC!​

This is something I always wanted to do, because I myself find it extremely interesting: I'm going to compare the Egyptians I played in Replay #4 with the Incans I played in this game. It's also gonna be a clearview of the Incan empire at 1000 BC and a comparison between two totally different maps.


First, a general clearview:

Incan empire:

Basic information: 17 cities, putting out 400 GNP, 130 Mfg and 230 Crop yield. Incans scoring almost 800 points (non-normalized) , and clearly the #1 on the map.

Egyptian empire:

Basic information: 13 cities, putting out 200 GNP, 70 Mfg and 140 Crop Yield. Egyptians scoring about 600 points (non-normalized) , and while being the #1 in land area owned, being clearly behind various AIs in the other stats.

Comparison: So both are number one when it gets to the land owned, but the Incan cities must be a lot stronger than the Egyptian cities, GNP, Mfg. and Food clearly point this out. While the Incans have already defeated various Civs and are clearly the #1 of the map, the Egyptians have to do a lot of catching up, basically lacking a lot of Growth. Interesting fact to notice: Both empires are researching Education, so are basically similar advanced in tech. And: The egyptian empire has almost no Forrests left, the Incan empire still has a noticable number of those.

To understand how this big gap is produced, you have to get a closer look at the cities:


Second, the capital:

Cuzco:

Basic information: Cuzco is size 11 and produces 75 Beakers at 100% Research. It has a Granary, a Library, a Forge, an Aqueduct, a Monestary, the Hanging Gardens and the Pyramids.
It's running an Engineer Specialist, because this city shall produce a Great Engineer for Mining Inc. It is also working Cottages, which have grown to Hamlets already.

Now Thebes:

Basic information: Thebes is size 9 and produces 65 Beakers at 100% Research. It has a Granary, a Library, a Forge, a Barracks and the Oracle.
It's not running any Specialists and working Cottages that have also already grown to Hamlets, one is even a Village already.

Comparison: I'm astonished about this myself. First, I'd have expected Thebes to be a lot smaller than Cuzco, but it isn't. Thebes had 3 Slave-Revolts in that round, Cuzco had none, having that in mind, Thebes would be even larger than Cuzco if those hadn't occured. I'm not only astonished because of the Slave-Revolts, but also because Thebes was whipped a lot more often than Cuzco, being the main-producer of troops in the beginning. Anyhow, this shows only little about the Civilizations, it show, that Thebes is simply in a lot stronger site than Cuzco, having double wet Corn as sources of Food. Just imagine, that's +3 Food that Thebes has over Cuzco, it's not really that much because Cuzco has 2 Floodplains and catches up by those, but I can be sure to say that Cuzco, would it have had the Food of Thebes, would be at least size 13 to 14 atm. The main advantage of the Incans is, that they get to a lot of cities a lot earlier and that their troops are cheaper / as effective given the timeframe, this allows to not whip the Capital. Another big advantage of the Incans is the FIN-Trait, Cuzco produces more Beakers than Thebes does, even though having 1 Gold less.


Third, the GP Farm:

Berlin:

Basic Information: Berlin is size 11 and has a Granary and a Library.

Pataliputra:

Basic information: Pataliputra is size 6 and has a Granary, a Forge and a Library.

Comparison: Here, the real advantage of the Incans starts to show. First, one has to see, that Berlin is just a lot stronger city site than Pataliputra is. This is, because Berlin was an AIs Capital, while Pataliputra was just a normal, non-Capital site. Berlin could grow on tripple Food, while Pataliputra only had Banana's, which could be improved a lot later. There is no way that Pataliputra is ever going to catch up to Berlin, not even with the possibility enabled by the SPI-Trait to run PAC and by that enhance GP-production. In addition, Pataliputra suffers from having to generate a GE, something an Incan empire can do in a city of its own, and, you start to see a tendency: While the Incans have the necessary Hammers to build early World Wonders (The Mids, the HGs, the GLH, etc. ) , the Egyptians don't.


Fourth, the HE-city:

York:

Basic information: York is size 8 and puts out 47 Hammers. It has a Granary, a Barracks, a Forge and the Heroic Epic, the only necessary building this city needs at some time is a Courthouse, but other than that, it can be regarded as "complete" .

Ahmedabad:

Basic information: Ahmedabad is size 4 and puts out 13 Hammers. Like York, it has all necessary buildings.

Comparison: These two cities again show the big difference that is between the Incan empire and the Egyptian empire. While the Incan empire's troops are extremely cheap and get produced in all cities in a time where there is little else to produce, the Egyptians are in constant need for more. In general, Ahmedabad (like Thebes) is a stronger site, even though York was a Capital and Ahmedabad not, but the constant need to produce more and more troops led to whipping Ahemdabad down over and over, it led to chopping all trees around it, while York still has its Forrests and is twice as large. These are pictures showing that Incans allow for completely different approache than "normal" Civs. The Incans can let their cities grow, because they have the necessary numbers to support this play and by this come out a lot better later, the Egyptians can't do this.


We know that both empires are on a similar tech-lvl, why is that so?

Anybody understanding the concept of maintenance in Civ undertand this. Larger empires have a way higher maintenance than smaller empires. Have a look at the two Financial Advisors:

Incans:

Egyptians:

Notice the huge difference in the worked tiles? The Incans are working almost twice as many tiles as the Egyptians! With the larger cities, not only the value of the Traderoutes increases significantly, the maintenance is also almost twice as high! Now the amount of money that can be gotten through trade is about the same, leading to the Egyptian empire having loads and loads of Gold, again leading to the possibility of 100% deficit Research, while the Incans have barely no money at all, having to pay for that huge empire. Anyhow, should the Egyptians stop tech-trading at some point, or should the Incans find some money, the Incans will have a power in Research that's from another dimension, so be prepared .


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Hope you liked this Special cast, the next post will continue with the 3.6M Incan game, and is going online within the hours! Cya,

Seraiel

 

[Seraiel]

It's huge. I could have the world at war while still maintaining a large tech lead. This is just another reason Maranoob is easier!

If you aren't able to maintain a tech-lead from some point onwards, you have to work on your trading skills. And what is easy depends on the aims you have, if you wanna beat 3.2M, that's impossible on normal game-speed, but it's difficult on Marathon. If you wanna just win, that's possible on every game-speed but more difficult if you wanna win over someone else. If you wanna be as intelligent and funny as me though, I'd say impossible again, even if you'd play on Marathon and me on Lightspeed, Zero .

@ Marathon Bribres:
Don't overreact
Churchill is kept artificially alive in this game and dwells in the mire of the scoreboard.

How much would it take to bribe against Mansa/Willem ?

I took a save where I had a lot of money:

So I'd say, besides power-ratio, also the diplomacy matters, because Louis definately is stronger than Lizzy, but what this generally says, you have to say that BiC!

Sera

 

[Choggy]

17 Cities at 1100BC?! I'm missing something here...how on earth can you support that many cities so early? I don't get it!? Your finance screen shows a healthy ecomomy, although a closer glance shows that nearly 50% of your commerce comes from foreign trades. That's astonishing! How do you do that?

Regarding your BigBossPlayer GG death. I believe that withdrawal% only applies if you're the attacking unit although i8f I'm wrong then please say so. That said, it was still a 3.3 str unit against what I think is a 5.6 unit (2 base str + .2 for combat 1 + 2 for attack vs archers + (2*.5) for forest defence + (2*.25 fortify bonus). Somebody might want to check that though as my head is full of hayfever and isn't working very well at all...

Now, ordinarily the AI would never attack against those odds. Except it was a GG unit. In my experience yhe AI seem to go for GG units at all odds though - had that unit been a normal checker with cover promo I doubt it would have been attacked.

I'm also allowed to have fun sometimes. If I would (or could) only play effective and by what's best, I'd maybe have scored 4M in this game, but then, I'd again would have gotten totally frustrated, and it was already hard to finish this game at all.

I'm getting that feeling already from your game. I hope you took my comment in good faith, your frustration and 'what the hell, I'm going to beat these guys no matter what' attitude is making this story come to life.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

If you aren't able to maintain a tech-lead from some point onwards, you have to work on your trading skills. And what is easy depends on the aims you have, if you wanna beat 3.2M, that's impossible on normal game-speed, but it's difficult on Marathon. If you wanna just win, that's possible on every game-speed but more difficult if you wanna win over someone else. If you wanna be as intelligent and funny as me though, I'd say impossible again, even if you'd play on Marathon and me on Lightspeed, Zero .

Tech brokering for a tech lead is easy if you don't want a world war on Normal. But once you start making wars happen you are advancing the AI to slow them down. The simple fact that it takes 3 techs compared to 1 is massive. To do what you do on normal you would have the world at war, but the would be near equal with you in tech. There are many reasons Maranoob is Maranoob! Just think about it this way, the first world war I start usually involves giving the AI any 3 of this techs: Aesthetics, Math, Alpha, Iron Working, Currency, Calender, or Metal Casting. Now I just advanced the AI by a bunch in order to stagnate them. While on Maranoob all you have to do is give them one of those techs. How does that not make staying very far ahead easier?

 

[WelshGandalf]

About BigBadBoss losing. I think you misunderstand withdrawal chance. Firstly, the 30% withdrawal chance is irrelevant, as you were attacked. You can't withdraw from a fight that they initiate.

Secondly, the 30% withdrawal chance is 30% of your percentage chance to lose. EG If you have 60% chance to win, then you will have 0.4*0.3 = 12% chance to withdraw, and 28% chance to lose.

You could've checked the combat log perhaps. I think that would show it was STR 3.0 vs 5.0, so something roundabout 20% chance for the archer to win.

@ CHoggy.... the percentages modifiers are "added together" and then applied to one of the troops. So the archer is just strength 3. The quecha would have a modifier of 100% (vs archers) + 50% (forest) + 10% (combat 1) -10% (the archer's combat 1) = 150%, so 2 *(1 + 150%) = 5. No fortify bonus applicable as you can see from the screenshot that he only just moved into the forest.

 

[Choggy]

@ CHoggy.... the percentages modifiers are "added together" and then applied to one of the troops. So the archer is just strength 3. The quecha would have a modifier of 100% (vs archers) + 50% (forest) + 10% (combat 1) -10% (the archer's combat 1) = 150%, so 2 *(1 + 150%) = 5. No fortify bonus applicable as you can see from the screenshot that he only just moved into the forest.

You're right, forgot that the attacker's modifier is subtracted from the defending unit. The fortification bonus was a guess based on Seraiel's narrative - I don't get how you know that the checker hadn't been fortified?

 

[Seraiel]

Episode 3 - Part II​

BigBossPlayer is dead! Long live BigBossPlayer!​

After the special cast, it's time to continue the Writeup of the Incan round. In the last episode, you experienced that I was extremely lucky getting the +3 relations event with Lizzy. Here are the aims I've had in that episode again:

• Use the Great Prophet from Washington to build a Shrine and ease my Economy. complete
• Create a GS soonly afterwards in Berlin, found an Academy in Cuzco, basically, develop Research. If I get a GM, start a Golden Age to create a GS. in progress
• REX. not complete for a loooooooooong time
• Build Swordsmen on top of the Checkers that I constructed in the meantime. complete
• Build Catapults. in progress
• Finally end this war that has been going on for way too long already. in progress
• Build Missionaries and convert Roosevelt, so I can get Calendar from him. complete
• After that, conquer the MoM, that Roosevelt has constructed some turns ago. incomplete
• Get Theology through trade, continue with researching Paper -> Education. complete
• Convert more Civs to Judaism, using Missionaries, basically, find tradepartners other than Mansa. in progress

Here is one thing that fell under the table: In 1120 BC I got the Great Library:

And these are the things happening next:

1010 BC, Willem builds the Statue of Zeus. Thankfully it's not on my continent, I hate fighting against it.

1000 BC: Lizzy beelined Machinery after Metalcasting. She has it complete now, and I must trade it against Feudalism from her in this turn, otherwise, she might convert to her stupid other Religion again. I sell techs at a loss, but manage to get the necessary 1000 gold I need for the Feudalism vs Machinery trade with Lizzy. You'll notice how scarce this is, as I have to put my Worldmap on top of the trade, and that one is worth at least 150 gold.

1000 BC, so only 1 turn later, I'm lucky again. Mansa researched Civil Service, so I can trade it from him against the newly aquired Machinery and CoL:

990 BC: My SoD has arrived at Curchill's walls-city "Coventry" (again ^^) , look at the crazy defenses he has brought up in the meantime:

This happens when an AI is left in war and Archer-build-mode for about 1000y .

Coventry's walls are made out of steel. It takes until 950 BC till the bombardement is complete, and the forces may finally attack:

Still angry about the death of BigBossPlayer the Incan forces have a tremendous will to win, they take the city with the loss of one Catapult! It has Food, so I keep it.

940, I can aquire Drama from Hatty in exchange for Music: I'm already looking forward to the Globe Theater.

And again on the next turn, I trade Calendar vs HBR with Peter:

Hatty continues with researching Philosphy, this is nice because she seems to stick to Judaism and because of that, she's friendly to me, so I'll also get that tech. It's also the time, where the AIs are having more and more gold they're willing to trade. This allows me to trade some techs to them for it, again fueling my Research, which goes up to 100% for the moment, making 500 BPT even without having an Academy having switched to Buro yet!


880 BC is a big year for the Incans. After a GS had been born with something like 70ish chances, Cuzco gets an Academy:

This raises my Research less than I'd have expected, but I'm not running Burocracy yet. That has to change! I don't wanna go through Anarchy though, and Education is also almost complete. Therefor, as in most of my rounds, it's time to start he first Golden Age to fasten up the process of building the Universities, and, of course, to finally switch to the extremely powerful Burocracy!
I don't have Philosophy yet, that's why I think the GA might have been a little early, but everything else is in place, the NE and the GL are set up, I got Buro and need to switch, Education is the best time for the 1st GA in a Sushi-round because Universities are so expensive... Enough factors to let me forget a little about the missing Pacifism.

Like that, my Research goes up to a crazy 700 BPT at 880 BC!

One turn later, so 870 BC, Peter liberates some of his overseas cities, his designated colony-leader is Kublai Khan. This is something I didn't think about when choosing the leaders, but Kublai's favourite Civic is Burocracy, so I'll be able to get nice diplo-bonuses with him also.

860 BC, Darius builds the Shwedagon Paya. This is only important because the AIs have some Failgold after that, which I trade from them with a pleasure.

850 BC, Hatty builds the Parthenon, again had no intention on building that.

840 BC, the Incan empire reaches Education! 8 cities get chosen to get Universities. Big advantage of the Incans over the Egyptians again: Because having a lot more cities a lot earlier, I don't have to build Universities in non-Commerce-cities, I can choose the locations they fit best, not the locations that can construct them at all.
Research goes Gunpowder after this.

I also trade Machinery vs Compass with friendly Roosevelt:

Not the best trade having in mind that I want to invade him, but better than giving him Civil Service or Paper. Anyhow, I'm not there yet, the troops still have to finish off Churchill, atm. they're bombarding his Capital Nottingham.

810 BC is the time of the attack. Churchill has settled some Island having Iron, that's why he's got Swords- and Axemen now making it a little more difficult, but Incan forces can take the city with the loss of 4 Catapults:

Nottingham is an awesome site having quadruple Food and will get even more awesome once it'll get the Moai Statues, this city will get to be the largest city of the Incan empire and it's gonna be the main Shipyard, as it has a settled GG. The ships for the invasion of Churchills island cities? Well, those will be whipped out of Nottinghams population . The english producing what is needed for their own destruction, when I think about that, I actually don't laugh anymore as that is what happened in the 2nd World War to the Jews.

There are some additional Civic-switches to note during the GA: In the beginning of the GA, I switched to Police State. Not because I was building so many troops, but because I really hoped to get the "Charismatic Event" (all troops promoted to March or +2 Happiness in all cities!!!) , and in the end, I switched to Universal Suffrage because it allowed me to rushbuy 2 Universities in production-weak cities.

760 BC: I've researched enough into Philo to easily trade it from Hatty:

But now I'm gonna make you laugh:

This also happened in 760 BC:

Hmm.... A Great Engineer... "Hey Pericles, Pericles my Jewish friend..."

You know where this is leading to :

. Pericles wastes his GE on the AP and I get elected as the Resident . Time to construct AP-temples in all cities.

740 BC, Mansa has researched Engineering. I wait until I'm sure that he's researching Paper until I trade it to him:

It's also the last turn of the GA. I use up the rest of my money to push some cities that are hanging behind in developement, I buy some Granaries but also some Forges and I revolutionize to REP + Slavery + OR again. At the end of the GA, Research is up to 800 BPT! Research itself would be stable at 80%, due to the power of the Super-Shrine and more and more Courthouses going online.

---------------------

This is a very good end for this part of the episode, continuation following soon. I hope I made you laugh like I did in Replay #3, make sure to keep reading, cya

Seraiel

 

[Seraiel]

I just used WelshGandalf's tip to look up the combat-odds of the "BigBossPlayer vs n00b-Archer"-fight in the Combat log (cannot imagine why I didn't have that idea myself except that I'm stupid ) . Here is a screen showing the Combat-abilites of BigBossPlayer:

So chances were below 8% for this .

Btw., what does "Combat +100%" mean?

Tia, Seraiel

 

[Keilah]

The str bonus from combat 1 is different from other modifiers, it is always applied directly to the unit itself, giving the archer 3.3 str (as you can see in the screenshot). This is why combat promotions are often the best choice when your unit has a significant STR advantage, such as in praet vs archer.

The 30% withdrawal chance means that you have a 30% chance to withdraw instead of dying... but that only applies when you attack and lose. So if you have an 80% win chance and 30% withdraw chance, you will:
-win 80%
-lose and withdraw 6% (which is 20%*30%)
-lose and die 14% (which is 20%*70%)

And remember, you can only withdraw when attacking. Defending units have no chance to withdraw.

 

[DMOC]

This is an excellent read so far. I am looking forward to seeing what happens in the ADs.

 

[Seraiel]

Episode 3 - Part III​

BigBossPlayer is dead! Long live BigBossPlayer!​

Last episode featured a Golden Age that fastened up the developement of the empire by quite a bit, but it wasn't one of the Super-GAs you normally know from me (those with running 5 GP-Farms, having the MoM, creating 3-5 GPs, a.s.o. ) . Time to finish of Curchill and finally get that MoM for one of those, agree? Here is how the game continued:

It begins with a Fail: Mansa has Paper now, right? Let me trade maps with all Civs fast now, before he gets the money from it... Hmm, Sury doesn't want to trade is map... Well, whatever Sury, here is mine:

NOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEZ!!! *head -> table*

...
..
.

Ok, back again. It's 700 BC. Gunpowder has finished, I lightbulbed Printing Press so I'm researching that, and it's also the time for anothers city foundation: Here is Ica:

Hmm, nice and cozy city with access to the very rare Silver, but where is that?

MUHAR! At least you now know, what value I assign to Silver. The city is causing 14 as maintenance, that's as much as 3 of the continental cities. It's worth it I find.

Btw.: After only 1500y of having been in WHEOOHRN, Darius declars war on Louis!

In the meantime, Nottingham gets whipped down mercilessly to get some Galleys so I can ship over to Churchills Island: Prepare for Rage-attack:

680 BC, 2 Swordsmen are in attacking position for Manchester, they're having 60%ish odds:

"Hmm... 60% chances to win means if the 1st Swordsman wins, I'm not gonna attack with the 2nd because that would be foolish." (This is how I think. )

*Let's the Swordsman attack, the Swordsman, of course, loses.*

"Damn, why am I so unlucky. Now if the 1st Swordsman lost already with 60% chances, the 2nd one's going to win!" (This is again how I think. )

*2nd Swordsman also loses.*



I tell you something about me. I may have a lot of problems, but there is one, that really stands out, and that is, that I really cannot wait! It drives me mad when I have to wait, if I stand for 2 minutes waiting for the Subway to come, I'm going crazy! This is just like it, because this is what happens 1 turn later:

2 further Swordsmen have arrived at Manchester, I have 80% attacking odds:

"Hmm, 80% odds, everybody attack!"

*loses both Swordsmen on the defending Archers*



But don't worry, this isn't the end yet. 2 turns later I've shipped over another 2 Swordsmen. There is still no chance that I'll take the city in 1 round:

"The last Swordsmen were stupid CR2-losers, now these are CR3, and I have 90% chances, there's no way I'm gonna lose them!"

*1st Swordsman attacks an dies, 2nd one wins getting heavily wounded*

Churchill gets a GG for this über-stupidity!

*head -> table*

If you don't believe me, view the combat-logs, it's true. I just (for the third time) sacrificed a good part of my troops because I could not wait!

Churchill laughs, just like you probably. Anyhow, as Choggy said, "I'm gonna win this no matter how", in 640 BC, the laughing defenders of Manchester stop laughing when they get overwhelmed by the powerful Incan military:

As you can see on the screens, Research went Chemistry. I also whipped the missing Universities and start on the construction of Oxford in Cuzco. Notre Dame is also being constructed in the "Worker-pump" Vitcos, reason, it still has Forrests left. As does Cuzco, so this Oxford thing will be over real quick. Most of the empire is focusing on the construction of AP-temples after that, the Hammers-bonus from those is just too nice, especially with in a round like this, that's gonna last for quite some time still. Here is a clearview of what the empire is doing for you, to not get totally absorbed by a war that is more stupidity than that it makes any sense.

630 BC is the year where the chopping of Notre Dame is complete:

Hatty gets a GM. Now she's going to research even faster, I hope that I'll get a Liberalism -> Biology Slingshot anyways, but Liberalism -> Medicine like in Replay #3 is impossible this time.

610 BC: Peter / Kublai declare war on Churchill, yer, nice that I'm getting diplo-points with those two. I'm also constructing the Sixtine Chappel for Failgold, and, I get more and more unsure that I'm even going to get Biology via Liberalism. The backup plan is to Lib -> Steel should everything fail.

590 BC, Oxford completes! I'm doing 850 BPT at 100% now, but it's getting difficult to bring up the 150 GPT / turn for deficit research as I have nearly no small techs (everything like Aesthetics or Drama) left. Hatty is researching with lightspeed now, I have to slow her down somehow... I trade every Ressource that Sury doesn't have to him in order to get him to pleased, so I can bribe him against her. Hatty won't mind about that, she loves me so hard because of Religion and shared favourite Civic, she'll still stay friendly.

570 BC, Mansa constructs the Sixtine Chappel. The 400 Failgold I get for it are just at the right time. Also, another GS is born. I'll use him to lightbulb Scientific Method which has just become available to research, because I've finished on Chemistry.

540 BC: Some cities begin on producing Settlers again, the time for an expansion towards the islands has begun.

520 BC is the time of the attack on Churchills last city! OMG! Richmond falls, but causes another loss of a CR3-Swordsman, but I don't care, CHURCHILL IS DOWN!!!

I also got +2 through trading Ressources with Sury now, time to bribe him against Hatty who is definately researching way too fast.

470 BC: I reach the sonic-barrier of 1000 BPT, but I can only operate at 100% Research for one more turn.

460 BC: I have to cut research down to 70%, I've got no money left. Anyhow, I'm still doing 700 BPT, which I find is decent, this is more than I got in Replay #2 500y later.

450 BC: Hatty has completed Education and is now researching Liberalism. She's will reach it in the time of 15 turns, but I'm only 7 turns away from completing SM. There is a trade helping me being a little faster, I trade Educatioin vs Divine Right + 800g with Mansa:

Another 400 Failgold which I get from Hatty having constructed Chicken Pizza, also help raising the Research to 100% again.

440 BC: The Moai statues complete in Nottingham.

400 BC: Scientific Method finishes, and while the Globe Theater is getting constructed in Vilcabamba, a Caravel that's loaded up with a Scout is picking up Goody Huts that are on the islands. Will I get Astronomy through one of them maybe?

390 BC is the big moment, I finish the Research of Liberalism, which I stopped researching one turn before it was complete, and take the tech of Biology with it! If I had been only 9 turns faster, I could have pulled of my Liberalism -> Medicine Slingshot again.

----------------------

Now if you payed attention very well, you'll know what'll be coming up next. In the special cast "Incans vs Egyptians" I already told that the HE-city "York" had a lot of trees left, and in the clearview that I posted above, it said "a lot of Workers chopping out troops in York" . Well, 35 brave soldiers have finished their training and are rdy to finally conquer Roosevelts empire and take what belongs to the Incans, but as Roosevelt has a decent strength through having been in stupid overseas wars where he didn't lose any of his troops, and due to being highly developed, I decide: I need the Hero's for this task:

You see, BigBossPlayer has been revived as a non-GG-Healer, long live BigBossPlayer, and him joined the Heroes, making sure he doesn't let himself get farmed again. You make sure you don't miss the next episode which is all about them, being called: "The Age of Heroes".

You'll better read it, "or I'll go rampage!" Cya,

Seraiel

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

That last stack looks like my favorite kind of stack to war with. :3

 

[Seraiel]

17 Cities at 1100BC?! I'm missing something here...how on earth can you support that many cities so early? I don't get it!? Your finance screen shows a healthy ecomomy, although a closer glance shows that nearly 50% of your commerce comes from foreign trades. That's astonishing! How do you do that?

I think this must have to do with the map size, the oveseas trade and the GLH. As I heard, the maintenance is lower on larger map sizes, because otherwise, it'd be impossible to get enough cities for domination. When there is more space, so more cities, maintenance-limits must be adjusted to that (logical) . My 18 cities are like maybe 12 on a standard sized map.

The value of the TRs seems normal to me, at least it didn't differ that much in the egyptian game, there the TRs generated even more Commerce than the worked tiles. This is why I always say, early Commerce comes from TRs and Ressources, not from Cottages. The first Cottages in my games go online at 1500 BC, but they really start to kick in at about 1 AD when many of them have grown to Villages and get the PP bonus, before that, it's first Mining, then Calendar Ressources and TRs.

Don't forget, that this game has multiple Continents, value of TRs on a Pangea-like map is a lot lower because of the lacking +100% bonus to overseas TRs.

Regarding your BigBossPlayer GG death. I believe that withdrawal% only applies if you're the attacking unit although i8f I'm wrong then please say so. That said, it was still a 3.3 str unit against what I think is a 5.6 unit (2 base str + .2 for combat 1 + 2 for attack vs archers + (2*.5) for forest defence + (2*.25 fortify bonus). Somebody might want to check that though as my head is full of hayfever and isn't working very well at all...

Against hayfever you should have Mometason ("Nasonex") and Desloratadin ("Aerius") . Ask your doctor.

Now, ordinarily the AI would never attack against those odds. Except it was a GG unit. In my experience yhe AI seem to go for GG units at all odds though - had that unit been a normal checker with cover promo I doubt it would have been attacked.

This is interesting, thx .

I'm getting that feeling already from your game. I hope you took my comment in good faith, your frustration and 'what the hell, I'm going to beat these guys no matter what' attitude is making this story come to life.

All taken in the best possible faith, the "I may also have some fun sometime" is morely said to myself, because I got drilled on success and rational thinking so much.

Tech brokering for a tech lead is easy if you don't want a world war on Normal. But once you start making wars happen you are advancing the AI to slow them down. The simple fact that it takes 3 techs compared to 1 is massive. To do what you do on normal you would have the world at war, but the would be near equal with you in tech. There are many reasons Maranoob is Maranoob! Just think about it this way, the first world war I start usually involves giving the AI any 3 of this techs: Aesthetics, Math, Alpha, Iron Working, Currency, Calender, or Metal Casting. Now I just advanced the AI by a bunch in order to stagnate them. While on Maranoob all you have to do is give them one of those techs. How does that not make staying very far ahead easier?

There are other factors playing into this, and I'm not arguing against you, but getting 3 techs for a bribe must not necessarily be more difficult than getting 1 tech. Giving AI 3 techs though, I don't know if I'd do that. You see me in my game getting a growing tech-lead without bribing, maybe you're advancing the AI more than slowing it down. And don't forget, bribing gets cheaper when you're in war with someone, best bribes are triangle bribes where you bribe a vs b and c vs a. But tell me, you see the numbers for normal-Civs (Civs I'm not at war with) on the screens, how much do your bribes really cost you on normal at that time? Also 1200-1400 or less?

About BigBadBoss losing. I think you misunderstand withdrawal chance. Firstly, the 30% withdrawal chance is irrelevant, as you were attacked. You can't withdraw from a fight that they initiate.

Secondly, the 30% withdrawal chance is 30% of your percentage chance to lose. EG If you have 60% chance to win, then you will have 0.4*0.3 = 12% chance to withdraw, and 28% chance to lose.

You could've checked the combat log perhaps. I think that would show it was STR 3.0 vs 5.0, so something roundabout 20% chance for the archer to win.

@ CHoggy.... the percentages modifiers are "added together" and then applied to one of the troops. So the archer is just strength 3. The quecha would have a modifier of 100% (vs archers) + 50% (forest) + 10% (combat 1) -10% (the archer's combat 1) = 150%, so 2 *(1 + 150%) = 5. No fortify bonus applicable as you can see from the screenshot that he only just moved into the forest.

Understood how the Withdrawl gets calculated, and thx for the tip with the Combatlog again!

You're right, forgot that the attacker's modifier is subtracted from the defending unit. The fortification bonus was a guess based on Seraiel's narrative - I don't get how you know that the checker hadn't been fortified?

He said he could see on the screens, so he combined the dates with the movement of the troops. Between some screens I said, that only 1 turn has passed and you see that a unit has moved exactly 1 tile far, this must have been the case there.

The str bonus from combat 1 is different from other modifiers, it is always applied directly to the unit itself, giving the archer 3.3 str (as you can see in the screenshot). This is why combat promotions are often the best choice when your unit has a significant STR advantage, such as in praet vs archer.

The 30% withdrawal chance means that you have a 30% chance to withdraw instead of dying... but that only applies when you attack and lose. So if you have an 80% win chance and 30% withdraw chance, you will:
-win 80%
-lose and withdraw 6% (which is 20%*30%)
-lose and die 14% (which is 20%*70%)

And remember, you can only withdraw when attacking. Defending units have no chance to withdraw.

I thought Tactics somehow was different to Flanking, I'm about 50% sure I read something about that, but I'm probably wrong.

This is an excellent read so far. I am looking forward to seeing what happens in the ADs.

Thx DMOC . I havn't looked into the savegames to get confirmation on that, but I think, the ADs included extreme Sushi madness, the craziest REX you'll ever see done in any Civ game, and some really nice wars with the Heros . There are some events I remember, that I won't tell though, because those are a secret .

That last stack looks like my favorite kind of stack to war with. :3

Hrhrh . I must say, that stack was already hillariously good, but when I got Cannons, it became olololololol.

Sera