Research agreements great scientists will they finally fix it?

[apocalypse105]

Am I the only person who thinx this feature should be fixed?


I thinx its a broken game mechanic; you can get any technology in the game for some gold .
It basicly removes the focus on raw science.

I enjoy multiplayer hotseat game a lot becaue you actually have to grow you're population and build the right buildings to keep ahead in technology however sometimes you have to empachise on production and not build buildings and not grow because you're at war ...

Now you just get gold from the AI and let them tech for you through research agreements..

I liked the Idea of the Vanilla enchanched mod where you get a percentage of the other player's research when signing the research agreement instead of a amount of beakers...
This is how it should have been or just no research agreement


A other thing I thinx is broken is great scientists At higher diffuclties you basicly ignore all the other great people (except great artist if you are going for a culture victory) otherwise you only focus on great scientist and getting instant technologies.
Did anybody use great merchants? But thats not my point. Its just that the scientist can give you any technology for free no matter how expansive just game breaking..


As soon as you master these things the higher diffulties aren't that diffuclt the game falls appart .


That's not how it should been it should be a challenge growing you're population civilization to increase science


I really liked the concept of population is rough science and modifiers because you have to invest into it and make decissions now I am going to grow and now I
am going to war and so on. It just feels right

I rarely see myself teching through the late game its just bulbing after bulbing and research agreement after agreement doesn't make any sence

 

[turingmachine]

Great Scientists are ridiculously overpowered in that they instant discover a tech. They should function like Great Scientists in past games or the Great Engineer to hammers in V; early techs they can instant discover but they would only provide a percentage of the beakers for later game techs. It's ridiculous now how people just horde scientists and skip the whole end of the tech tree in a turn.

Research agreements have gotten better since release, but they're still overpowered.

I would like to see end game science based on scientific infrastructure you built throughout the game, not just abusing scientists and research agreements.

 

[apocalypse105]

Great Scientists are ridiculously overpowered in that they instant discover a tech. They should function like Great Scientists in past games or the Great Engineer to hammers in V; early techs they can instant discover but they would only provide a percentage of the beakers for later game techs. It's ridiculous now how people just horde scientists and skip the whole end of the tech tree in a turn.

Research agreements have gotten better since release, but they're still overpowered.

I would like to see end game science based on scientific infrastructure you built throughout the game, not just abusing scientists and research agreements.

Research agreements hav e been indead been fixed by patches I am happy about that

One thing I would like to see patch are great scientist they are just overpowered

 

[Gucumatz]

Research agreements hav e been indead been fixed by patches I am happy about that

One thing I would like to see patch are great scientist they are just overpowered

RAs have not been fixed by patches, you are probably playing mods.

 

[Gamewizard]

I think he meant that they were improved with patches...but yes, they still need to be tweaked.

 

[seasnake]

RAs are better but still need work.

I would say they should be more expensive, take a few more turns to complete and adjust a little lower for the amount of beakers, then they will be more balanced.

GS fix is obvious, 1 free tech early and a number of beakers later, useful but not OP.

Academies would be better that way too, early in the game the Academy makes the most sense but later it's all about the free tech.

Artists should lose the useless culture bomb and contribute a free social policy early on and a number of culture after the medieval era.

Citadels should have the ability to stack a limited number of planes.

 

[apocalypse105]

RAs have not been fixed by patches, you are probably playing mods.

I ment they aren't that overpowered anymore wich they will give you a instant tech you now just get a amount of beakers.

The thing I want to see patch is the great scientist

 

[apocalypse105]

RAs are better but still need work.

I would say they should be more expensive, take a few more turns to complete and adjust a little lower for the amount of beakers, then they will be more balanced.

GS fix is obvious, 1 free tech early and a number of beakers later, useful but not OP.

Academies would be better that way too, early in the game the Academy makes the most sense but later it's all about the free tech.

Artists should lose the useless culture bomb and contribute a free social policy early on and a number of culture after the medieval era.

Citadels should have the ability to stack a limited number of planes.

Making it more expensive and taking longer would fix it however if it takes longer that means you have more time to get most out of it

As scientist they should provide a certain amount of beakers wich can bulb early technologies and mid and late technologies only half way


Free policy seems a little b it overpowered instead the culture bomb should basicly be a ability that gives you a certain amount of culture points towards you're social policy spending

End a citadel is allready powerfull and if you can stack planes on it whats the drawback of it in cities they die if captured but whats the rule with tile improvement?

 

[seasnake]

Making it more expensive and taking longer would fix it however if it takes longer that means you have more time to get most out of it

As scientist they should provide a certain amount of beakers wich can bulb early technologies and mid and late technologies only half way


Free policy seems a little b it overpowered instead the culture bomb should basicly be a ability that gives you a certain amount of culture points towards you're social policy spending

End a citadel is allready powerfull and if you can stack planes on it whats the drawback of it in cities they die if captured but whats the rule with tile improvement?

If it gives you culture points than you could get two or three policies if you get an early Great Artist. My thought was like the great scientist, a certain number of beakers or culture, but if it completes a tech or gains a social policy than it's capped there.

 

[MkLh]

I ment they aren't that overpowered anymore wich they will give you a instant tech you now just get a amount of beakers.

If you have Porcelain Tower and Rationalism branch opened and you plan things right, you can have beakers equal to most expensive techs available to you. This means you can get multiple cheaper techs from one RA. That was't possible initially.

 

[anandus]

GS fix is obvious, 1 free tech early and a number of beakers later, useful but not OP.

I also hope they fix GE's. They are also overpowered as they can hurry a wonder instantly (unless it's really late in the game).

If they'd change it to, say 75% of the beakers (up to a max amount) or something, then it'd fix the infamous Hagia Sophia-slingshot. Especially for multiplayer that could make a lot of difference.

 

[FeiLing]

The GS fix actually obviously is:
Make him work like the GA, where he can only culture bomb/discover a free tech every x turns.
(cb is 10 turns afaik, I'd make 'get a free tech' even be blocked for 15 turns).

No more chaining, no more saving up 5-10 GS for rushing completely trough industrial, modern and future era at once.

 

[JtW]

The GS fix actually obviously is:
Make him work like the GA, where he can only culture bomb/discover a free tech every x turns.
(cb is 10 turns afaik, I'd make 'get a free tech' even be blocked for 15 turns).

No more chaining, no more saving up 5-10 GS for rushing completely trough industrial, modern and future era at once.

Love this idea!

 

[wobuffet]

The "lock out for x turns" mechanic would definitely work, but is a bit kludge-y. I think the more elegant solution is to simply make burning the GS generate a finite amount of beakers, depending either on empire-wide per-turn Science production over the last few turns or simply turn number (as done in CivUP/VEM).

I really hope Firaxis does a balance pass for all Great People: for example, the vanilla game would be more interesting if Great Merchants were ever worth producing. On the other hand, I'm not too worried, because Thal and the other people behind Vanilla Enhanced will make it so anyway.

 

[apocalypse105]

I also hope they fix GE's. They are also overpowered as they can hurry a wonder instantly (unless it's really late in the game).

If they'd change it to, say 75% of the beakers (up to a max amount) or something, then it'd fix the infamous Hagia Sophia-slingshot. Especially for multiplayer that could make a lot of difference.

Great engineer is not overpowered its prety difficult to get a great engineer you only have 1 slot in the early game(workshop)

and in the lategame you get a windmill and a factory so ..

What is overpowered is the free great person at liberty thats how people abuse the game

 

[Louis XXIV]

I think my proposal for balancing GS is to make it something like 200 beakers plus the average cost of all techs you can research. Early techs are instant, but you can't use them to beeline because, eventually, your average will be too low.

 

[Ellye]

Great Scientists should give a number of Beakers relative to the cost of the current available technologies. Kinda like RAs, but not as high as they currently give.

Research Agreements themselves should be completely remade, I think. The tech tree of both civilizations should be taken in consideration, at least.

 

[triheptyl]

This is probably a stupid idea, I haven't put too much thought into it, but why not kill two birds with one stone?

Make it so that the GS special ability is that you can sign an RA. Makes it so that you can only sign a limited number of RAs, instead of being able to have one going with all the AIs all the time. It would greatly limit your RAs, and would eliminate the "instant tech" that the GS gives. Now you use your GS, and 30 turns later you get a tech boost. No more instant techs, no more RA spamming.

 

[Buccaneer]

I think my proposal for balancing GS is to make it something like 200 beakers plus the average cost of all techs you can research. Early techs are instant, but you can't use them to beeline because, eventually, your average will be too low.

I like this idea.

 

[apocalypse105]

I think my proposal for balancing GS is to make it something like 200 beakers plus the average cost of all techs you can research. Early techs are instant, but you can't use them to beeline because, eventually, your average will be too low.

yeah and you shoud olso limit it per turn so you can't save scientist for massive bulbs