Researching Civil Service and Attacking Protective Civs

[futurehermit]

Ok, couple quick questions:

1) When I research CoL, sometimes I cannot immediately research CS. Why is this the case? Then I will lightbulb philosophy and then be able to research CS (not having researched feudalism). I don't get it? It usually happens when I try to research CS very early.

2) I just played a game where I had Toku as a neighbour (protective). I didn't have copper, but had horses. I made an unholy amount of chariots and took his capital (not on hill). Then I went for his next city (on hill) and it had 1 spear and a few archers. I still had an unholy amount of chariots. I lost the majority of them attacking that city and didn't even kill one of the defenders I attacked twice more with huge stacks of chariots, same result (I researched IW, but didn't have iron, the city I was attacking had iron!). No other AIs close by, Mansa and Monty on the continent...Should I have just gone for a construction beeline instead of trying to attack early with chariots? Or, should I have settled for his capital (I would've had to pay Toku for peace!!!) and then gone for construction to finish him off?

EDIT: P.S., Is there ANY way to lightbulb CS anymore (patched warlords)?

Thx

 

[idiot_savant]

To lightbulb CS, you either need to produce multiple priests (not too hard, but time consuming to get Theology) or produce GMs after you get Currency and lightbulb CS with one of these.

 

[gdgrimm]

Ok, couple quick questions:

1) When I research CoL, sometimes I cannot immediately research CS. Why is this the case? Then I will lightbulb philosophy and then be able to research CS (not having researched feudalism). I don't get it? It usually happens when I try to research CS very early.

2) I just played a game where I had Toku as a neighbour (protective). I didn't have copper, but had horses. I made an unholy amount of chariots and took his capital (not on hill). Then I went for his next city (on hill) and it had 1 spear and a few archers. I still had an unholy amount of chariots. I lost the majority of them attacking that city and didn't even kill one of the defenders I attacked twice more with huge stacks of chariots, same result (I researched IW, but didn't have iron, the city I was attacking had iron!). No other AIs close by, Mansa and Monty on the continent...Should I have just gone for a construction beeline instead of trying to attack early with chariots? Or, should I have settled for his capital (I would've had to pay Toku for peace!!!) and then gone for construction to finish him off?

EDIT: P.S., Is there ANY way to lightbulb CS anymore (patched warlords)?

Thx

1) Mathematics is now a pre-req for CS.

2) Hills and high culture are both tough to deal with without Cats. After the first attempt failed miserably, I'd have waited for Cats. Taking a capital and then "suing" for peace is a VERY good deal.

EDIT: there's really no good way to rush pop CS anymore. Theoretically, you can still pop it using any Great Person. But setting it up is now much more difficult.

 

[futurehermit]

^^^AHHHH! Math is a prereq for CS, good to know!

What are the ways I can pop CS? Which gps do I need to use and when? Thanks in adv!

 

[namliaM]

Use a Merchant after currency and Metal Casting (offcourse you need Math + CoL as well)

Or dont research Bronze working or Pottery so Metal Casting stays hidden from the merchant

 

[futurehermit]

Ok, a merchant after currency and MC...that works for patched warlords?

I'm not sure about the timing of it. I run caste system, so the merchants are no problem, but currency and MC aren't on my list of techs to research, so I am depending on the AI to trade them in time for the lightbulb. It may be touch and go.

Is there another way by any chance?

Thx!

 

[notagoodname]

Here's the article i wrote on what techs great people give and when they give them.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140952
It used to be a prophet gave civil service if you avoided masonary, that has now changed.

If i decide to do the civ service rush my favourite way is to build the oracle for theology really early and then pop civil service with a preist after manually researching code of laws. Priests come with the oracle so it isn't too hard to get them.

Still i don't do this strategy often. I find rushing for pyramids and then a specialist economy early to be a far better strategy. And i'd rather get nothing except great scientists and engineers for my great people which is what a specialist economy tends to give.

 

[futurehermit]

Thanks very much!

 

[futurehermit]

Use a Merchant after currency and Metal Casting (offcourse you need Math + CoL as well)

Or dont research Bronze working or Pottery so Metal Casting stays hidden from the merchant

Can't avoid pottery because pottery comes before CS on the preference list, so MC is a must unfortunately

p.s., can anyone confirm that drama actually comes *before* liberalism on the GS tech preferences? on the linked list it is listed as after, but in my games it seems to come before?

 

[namliaM]

I have not seen proof that the list is inacurate.... It is very hard indeed to get to burn a GS on Liberalism...

Just to name drop a few techs that come before Liberalism (OK accoording to this list)
Chemistry, Astronomy, Education, PP, Scientific Method, Optics, paper, Engineering, Philo, Calander

The reason why you may feel that Drama comes before Liberalism is that you only need Alphabet (which you likely pick up earlier than Education), thus trying to bulb could show Drama allready simply because you cannot bulb a tech higher up on the list.

 

[futurehermit]

No, I've had liberalism available to be researched after a beeline (thus didn't research drama) and the lightbulb showed drama.

I know because this was the game after I just printed off the list and I was playing the game to figure out the beeline I wanted to go for. When it showed drama, I doublechecked and was like: "Wth? It says drama comes after liberalism?"

 

[notagoodname]

It's extremely hard to get a scientist to give drama, that tech preferences article is %100 correct.
Try it in worldbuilder and see for yourself.

I'm pretty sure if you look closely the GP giving you drama was an artist.

 

[namliaM]

Is there any (easy) way to (double) check what the preferences are? I mean it must be in some XML or Python someplace?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Is there any (easy) way to (double) check what the preferences are? I mean it must be in some XML or Python someplace?

Civ4TechInfos.xml. Look at the flavor scores of the techs, that's the priority ordering. When there is a tie, it is resolved in favor of the tech which appears first in the xml file.

 

[futurehermit]

It's extremely hard to get a scientist to give drama, that tech preferences article is %100 correct.
Try it in worldbuilder and see for yourself.

I'm pretty sure if you look closely the GP giving you drama was an artist.

no, it was certainly a scientist. i'm not sure what to tell you. i will try and generate the situation again sometime and take a screen.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

I think i've also seen scientist to suggest a study towards Dramatical Arts.. thats why i pushed him in the corner and told him to shut up and waited till his upcoming collegue. Then he could argue about the technical aspects of printing press as long he wanted!

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

I'm pretty sure if you look closely the GP giving you drama was an artist.

Actually, "Fastest to pop drama with a scientist" looks like it could be a fun challenge, really, especially with no tech trading.

Skip Mysticism, skip Pottery. So you are going to Writing via Animal Loving.

So that leaves: Mining, BronzeWorking, Iron Working, Masonry, Fishing, Sailing, Compass, The Wheel, Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, Writing, Mathematics, Calendar, Alphabet.... DRAMA.