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Resource tiles re-balancing.

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Funak, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    There is a balance-discussion where I have proposed some changes to the yields from the plantation-resources in order to make them feel more interesting and less samey.
    The discussion is going on in a thread in the General Balance Subforum, but since no one seems to find their way there I've been asked to re-post it here. I am however not going to do that, because I really don't like disorder, and that's a topic that is supposed to go into general balance. So I'm just going to give you a link to it instead.


    You can find the thread here.
     
  2. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Sigh. I'll do it then. Links in links will just result in people having a convo in two places.

    We still need to work out mine, camp, and fishing luxuries.

    Potential Change Balance for Plantation Resources (per Funak)

    All values are replacements, not additions to current values.


    F = Food
    C = Culture
    G = Gold
    P = Production

    Base Tile Yield:
    • Citrus: 1F
    • Cocoa: 1F 1G
    • Coffee: 1F
    • Cotton: 1G
    • Dyes: 1C
    • Incense: 1C
    • Olives: 1F 1G
    • Perfume: 1C
    • Silk: 2G
    • Spices: 1G
    • Sugar: 1F
    • Tea: 1G
    • Tobacco: 2G
    • Wine: 1F

    Improvement Yields
    • Citrus: 1F 1G
    • Cocoa: 2G
    • Coffee: 2G
    • Cotton: 1C 1G
    • Dyes: 1C 1G
    • Incense: 1C 1G
    • Olives: 2G
    • Perfume: 2G
    • Silk: 2G
    • Spices: 1F 1G
    • Sugar : 1F 1G
    • Tea: 1F 1P
    • Tobacco: 2G
    • Wine: 1F 1G

    Buildings
    Market:
    • Spices: 1F 1P
    • Sugar : 1F 1G

    Amphitheater:
    • Dyes: 1C 1G
    • Silk: 1G 1C
    • Lapis Lazuli : 2C

    Temple:
    • Wine: 1C 1G
    • Incense: 1C 1G

    Bath/Garden:
    • Citrus : 2G
    • Cocoa: 2G

    Colosseum:
    • Olives: 1F 1G
    • Perfume: 2C

    Caravansary:
    • Cotton: 1C 1P

    Grocer:
    • Coffee: 2P 1G
    • Tea: 1P 2G
    • Tobacco: 3G
     
  3. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    And reposting things in the wrong place just makes people never actually learn. Honestly, I would have been purposely breaking rule 2 if I had reposted it here.
     
  4. pandasnail

    pandasnail Prince

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    Seems delightful to me, every luxury resource being its own thing. Don't really have an opinion on precise balance, I'll just play whatever I draw.

    What about the Indonesian resources? (do they even have a building, I don't even know)
     
  5. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    They get 2f/2g right now on improvement, so they have the bonuses built in.
    G
     
  6. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    There isn't that much balance-thought put into it, I mostly wanted them to feel more unique. In fact some of them are going to be clearly better than others but that's how resources have always worked :D

    They used to get a boost from the Indonesian Candi, but that felt kinda weird so now they're just really strong right off the bat instead.
     
  7. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I'm going to change my mind slightly and go with this instead.


    Bath/Garden:
    Citrus : 1F 1G
    Cocoa: 1F 1G

    The Garden is the building requiring the most tech but still only giving 2 yields, just having it give 2 gold is slightly underwhelming.
     
  8. ZZMitch

    ZZMitch Chieftain

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    I don't have too much to input, except that resources such as Spices and Tea seemed very weak in my last game (at least compared to other resources I had). So changes are welcome!
     
  9. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Honestly, I really don't expect to get it right on the first try, and I seriously expect at least another round of adjustments. I know Gazebo wants it all done in one go, but I'm a realist, things like this is hard.
     
  10. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Let's see if we can get some minerals in here.


    Base Tile Yield:
    Amber: 1C
    Copper: 1P
    Gems: 1G
    Gold: 1G 1C
    Jade: 1C
    Lapis: 1G
    Salt: 1F
    Silver: 1G
    Marble: 1P

    Improvement Yields
    Amber: 1P
    Copper: 1P
    Gems: 1G 1P
    Gold: 1P
    Jade: 1P
    Lapis: 1P
    Salt: 1F 1P
    Silver: 1G 1P
    Marble: 2P

    Buildings

    Amphitheater:
    Lapis Lazuli : 2C

    Temple:
    Amber: 1G 1C

    Stone Works:
    Salt: 1P 1G
    Jade: 1P 1G
    Marble: 1P 1G

    Bank:
    Silver: 1G 1P 1C
    Gold: 3G
    Gems: 1G 2C
     
  11. hokath

    hokath King

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    Two things:
    1) The Austrian Coffee House replaces the Windmill, but has the Grocer's resource boosts. So if you change that, don't forget that UB.

    2) JFD's ExCE Luxuries are compatible with CBP monopolies: they all have their own bonuses. In a recent update he also added building based upgrades to yields for CBP also! He's so dreamy.
     
  12. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Already working on my plan to nuke the Coffee-House, I mean it honestly makes no sense anyways. You can't have a civ benefiting twice from some specific luxuries
     
  13. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Finally noticed what your last change with the pearls and coral actually did, thought they added a yield but they only moved a gold to a culture, should probably adjust it a bit as well.


    Base Tile Yield:
    Coral: 1G 1C (currently 1G)
    Pearls: 2G (currently 1G)


    Improvement Yields:
    Coral: 1P 1C (Same as it currently is)
    Pearls: 1P 1C (Same as it currently is)
     
  14. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Don't worry about it, gonna switch coffee house and tea pavilion location, and move tea pavilion to Opera House.

    G
     
  15. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    That makes a lot more sense, but it still needs to be brought up in the balancing thread. I mean currently (if you strip the coffee/tea/tobacco thing that's already on the grocer) all that's on the coffee house is 33% GPP, no yields no nothing. Might be powerful but it isn't very interesting.
     
  16. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    It's getting +100 Gold when you expend a GP (scaling) as well.

    G
     
  17. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    That's something but it could be discussed instead :D
     
  18. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I think it works fine.

    Also, question: in your rebalance above, did you take into consideration the 'improvement' yields intrinsic to plantations/pastures etc.? For example, plantations (right now) add +1 gold to all resources innately. I'm planning on removing that in favor of the balance above, but I wanted to make sure that we were on the same page.

    G
     
  19. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    What I wrote above is including the 1g that's always on plantation and the 1p that's always on the mines.

    This is how I understand it, please tell me if I'm wrong.

    A resource, for example Citrus.

    The Resource itself adds 1F to the ground, that's what I called base-tile-yield or something like that.

    Meaning if you find an unimproved citrus on a grassland (which doesn't exist, so that's a bad example) it would have 3 food (2 from grassland 1 from the base-tile-yield).

    Improving the Citrus adds 1F 1G, this bonus is split, with the 1F being dependent on the actual resource and the 1G being yield from the Plantation.
    The 1G from the plantation I did not modify at all (with the exception of on the tea, which I noticed now, I'll fix it.) I just switched the bonus that's not from the plantation.

    I actually had the Tea listed correctly in my notes, but I swapped two yield around when I wrote it here. I'll write another full summary so you don't have it spread out.
     
  20. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    F = Food
    C = Culture
    G = Gold
    P = Production

    Base Tile Yield:

    Plantation:

    Citrus: 1F
    Cocoa: 1F 1G
    Coffee: 1F
    Cotton: 1G
    Dyes: 1C
    Incense: 1C
    Olives: 1F 1G
    Perfume: 1C
    Silk: 2G
    Spices: 1G
    Sugar: 1F
    Tea: 1P
    Tobacco: 2G
    Wine: 1F

    Mine/quarry

    Amber: 1C
    Copper: 1P
    Gems: 1G
    Gold: 1G 1C
    Jade: 1C
    Lapis: 1G
    Salt: 1F
    Silver: 1G
    Marble: 1P

    Fishingboats:
    Coral: 1G 1C
    Pearls: 2G

    Improvement Yields

    Plantation:
    Citrus: 1F 1G
    Cocoa: 2G
    Coffee: 2G
    Cotton: 1C 1G
    Dyes: 1C 1G
    Incense: 1C 1G
    Olives: 2G
    Perfume: 2G
    Silk: 2G
    Spices: 1F 1G
    Sugar : 1F 1G
    Tea: 1F 1G
    Tobacco: 2G
    Wine: 1F 1G

    Mine/quarry:

    Amber: 1P
    Copper: 1P
    Gems: 1G 1P
    Gold: 1P
    Jade: 1P
    Lapis: 1P
    Salt: 1F 1P
    Silver: 1G 1P
    Marble: 2P

    Fishingboats:

    Coral: 1P 1C
    Pearls: 1P 1C


    Buildings

    Market:
    Spices: 1F 1P
    Sugar : 1F 1G

    Amphitheater:
    Dyes: 1C 1G
    Silk: 1G 1C
    Lapis Lazuli : 2C

    Temple:
    Wine: 1C 1G
    Incense: 1C 1G
    Amber: 1G 1C

    Bath/Garden:
    Citrus : 1F 1G
    Cocoa: 1F 1G

    Colosseum:
    Olives: 1F 1G
    Perfume: 2C

    Stone Works: (with this production-reduction the base +1 Hammer could be added back to it imho)
    Salt: 1P 1G
    Jade: 1P 1G
    Marble: 1P 1G

    Forge: (the same deal as the stone works)
    Copper: 1P 1G
    Iron: 1P 1G

    Caravansary:
    Cotton: 1C 1P
    Truffles: 2G
    Furs: 1G 1P

    Grocer:
    Coffee: 2P 1G
    Tea: 1P 2G
    Tobacco: 3G

    Bank:
    Silver: 1G 1P 1C
    Gold: 3G
    Gems: 1G 2C
     

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