Resource tiles re-balancing.

[Funak]

There is a balance-discussion where I have proposed some changes to the yields from the plantation-resources in order to make them feel more interesting and less samey.
The discussion is going on in a thread in the General Balance Subforum, but since no one seems to find their way there I've been asked to re-post it here. I am however not going to do that, because I really don't like disorder, and that's a topic that is supposed to go into general balance. So I'm just going to give you a link to it instead.


You can find the thread here.

 

[Gazebo]

Sigh. I'll do it then. Links in links will just result in people having a convo in two places.

We still need to work out mine, camp, and fishing luxuries.

Potential Change Balance for Plantation Resources (per Funak)

All values are replacements, not additions to current values.


F = Food
C = Culture
G = Gold
P = Production

Base Tile Yield:

• Citrus: 1F
• Cocoa: 1F 1G
• Coffee: 1F
• Cotton: 1G
• Dyes: 1C
• Incense: 1C
• Olives: 1F 1G
• Perfume: 1C
• Silk: 2G
• Spices: 1G
• Sugar: 1F
• Tea: 1G
• Tobacco: 2G
• Wine: 1F

Improvement Yields

• Citrus: 1F 1G
• Cocoa: 2G
• Coffee: 2G
• Cotton: 1C 1G
• Dyes: 1C 1G
• Incense: 1C 1G
• Olives: 2G
• Perfume: 2G
• Silk: 2G
• Spices: 1F 1G
• Sugar : 1F 1G
• Tea: 1F 1P
• Tobacco: 2G
• Wine: 1F 1G

Buildings
Market:

• Spices: 1F 1P
• Sugar : 1F 1G

Amphitheater:

• Dyes: 1C 1G
• Silk: 1G 1C
• Lapis Lazuli : 2C

Temple:

• Wine: 1C 1G
• Incense: 1C 1G

Bath/Garden:

• Citrus : 2G
• Cocoa: 2G

Colosseum:

• Olives: 1F 1G
• Perfume: 2C

Caravansary:

• Cotton: 1C 1P

Grocer:

• Coffee: 2P 1G
• Tea: 1P 2G
• Tobacco: 3G

 

[Funak]

Sigh. I'll do it then. Links in links will just result in people having a convo in two places.

And reposting things in the wrong place just makes people never actually learn. Honestly, I would have been purposely breaking rule 2 if I had reposted it here.

 

[pandasnail]

Seems delightful to me, every luxury resource being its own thing. Don't really have an opinion on precise balance, I'll just play whatever I draw.

What about the Indonesian resources? (do they even have a building, I don't even know)

 

[Gazebo]

Seems delightful to me, every luxury resource being its own thing. Don't really have an opinion on precise balance, I'll just play whatever I draw.

What about the Indonesian resources? (do they even have a building, I don't even know)

They get 2f/2g right now on improvement, so they have the bonuses built in.
G

 

[Funak]

Seems delightful to me, every luxury resource being its own thing. Don't really have an opinion on precise balance, I'll just play whatever I draw.

There isn't that much balance-thought put into it, I mostly wanted them to feel more unique. In fact some of them are going to be clearly better than others but that's how resources have always worked

What about the Indonesian resources? (do they even have a building, I don't even know)

They used to get a boost from the Indonesian Candi, but that felt kinda weird so now they're just really strong right off the bat instead.

 

[Funak]

I'm going to change my mind slightly and go with this instead.


Bath/Garden:
Citrus : 1F 1G
Cocoa: 1F 1G

The Garden is the building requiring the most tech but still only giving 2 yields, just having it give 2 gold is slightly underwhelming.

 

[ZZMitch]

I don't have too much to input, except that resources such as Spices and Tea seemed very weak in my last game (at least compared to other resources I had). So changes are welcome!

 

[Funak]

I don't have too much to input, except that resources such as Spices and Tea seemed very weak in my last game (at least compared to other resources I had). So changes are welcome!

Honestly, I really don't expect to get it right on the first try, and I seriously expect at least another round of adjustments. I know Gazebo wants it all done in one go, but I'm a realist, things like this is hard.

 

[Funak]

Let's see if we can get some minerals in here.


Base Tile Yield:
Amber: 1C
Copper: 1P
Gems: 1G
Gold: 1G 1C
Jade: 1C
Lapis: 1G
Salt: 1F
Silver: 1G
Marble: 1P

Improvement Yields
Amber: 1P
Copper: 1P
Gems: 1G 1P
Gold: 1P
Jade: 1P
Lapis: 1P
Salt: 1F 1P
Silver: 1G 1P
Marble: 2P

Buildings

Amphitheater:
Lapis Lazuli : 2C

Temple:
Amber: 1G 1C

Stone Works:
Salt: 1P 1G
Jade: 1P 1G
Marble: 1P 1G

Bank:
Silver: 1G 1P 1C
Gold: 3G
Gems: 1G 2C

 

[hokath]

Two things:
1) The Austrian Coffee House replaces the Windmill, but has the Grocer's resource boosts. So if you change that, don't forget that UB.

2) JFD's ExCE Luxuries are compatible with CBP monopolies: they all have their own bonuses. In a recent update he also added building based upgrades to yields for CBP also! He's so dreamy.

 

[Funak]

Two things:
1) The Austrian Coffee House replaces the Windmill, but has the Grocer's resource boosts. So if you change that, don't forget that UB.

Already working on my plan to nuke the Coffee-House, I mean it honestly makes no sense anyways. You can't have a civ benefiting twice from some specific luxuries

 

[Funak]

Finally noticed what your last change with the pearls and coral actually did, thought they added a yield but they only moved a gold to a culture, should probably adjust it a bit as well.


Base Tile Yield:
Coral: 1G 1C (currently 1G)
Pearls: 2G (currently 1G)


Improvement Yields:
Coral: 1P 1C (Same as it currently is)
Pearls: 1P 1C (Same as it currently is)

 

[Gazebo]

Already working on my plan to nuke the Coffee-House, I mean it honestly makes no sense anyways. You can't have a civ benefiting twice from some specific luxuries

Don't worry about it, gonna switch coffee house and tea pavilion location, and move tea pavilion to Opera House.

G

 

[Funak]

Don't worry about it, gonna switch coffee house and tea pavilion location, and move tea pavilion to Opera House.

That makes a lot more sense, but it still needs to be brought up in the balancing thread. I mean currently (if you strip the coffee/tea/tobacco thing that's already on the grocer) all that's on the coffee house is 33% GPP, no yields no nothing. Might be powerful but it isn't very interesting.

 

[Gazebo]

That makes a lot more sense, but it still needs to be brought up in the balancing thread. I mean currently (if you strip the coffee/tea/tobacco thing that's already on the grocer) all that's on the coffee house is 33% GPP, no yields no nothing. Might be powerful but it isn't very interesting.

It's getting +100 Gold when you expend a GP (scaling) as well.

G

 

[Funak]

It's getting +100 Gold when you expend a GP (scaling) as well.

That's something but it could be discussed instead

 

[Gazebo]

That's something but it could be discussed instead

I think it works fine.

Also, question: in your rebalance above, did you take into consideration the 'improvement' yields intrinsic to plantations/pastures etc.? For example, plantations (right now) add +1 gold to all resources innately. I'm planning on removing that in favor of the balance above, but I wanted to make sure that we were on the same page.

G

 

[Funak]

I think it works fine.

Also, question: in your rebalance above, did you take into consideration the 'improvement' yields intrinsic to plantations/pastures etc.? For example, plantations (right now) add +1 gold to all resources innately. I'm planning on removing that in favor of the balance above, but I wanted to make sure that we were on the same page

What I wrote above is including the 1g that's always on plantation and the 1p that's always on the mines.

This is how I understand it, please tell me if I'm wrong.

A resource, for example Citrus.

The Resource itself adds 1F to the ground, that's what I called base-tile-yield or something like that.

Meaning if you find an unimproved citrus on a grassland (which doesn't exist, so that's a bad example) it would have 3 food (2 from grassland 1 from the base-tile-yield).

Improving the Citrus adds 1F 1G, this bonus is split, with the 1F being dependent on the actual resource and the 1G being yield from the Plantation.
The 1G from the plantation I did not modify at all (with the exception of on the tea, which I noticed now, I'll fix it.) I just switched the bonus that's not from the plantation.

I actually had the Tea listed correctly in my notes, but I swapped two yield around when I wrote it here. I'll write another full summary so you don't have it spread out.

 

[Funak]

F = Food
C = Culture
G = Gold
P = Production

Base Tile Yield:

Plantation:

Citrus: 1F
Cocoa: 1F 1G
Coffee: 1F
Cotton: 1G
Dyes: 1C
Incense: 1C
Olives: 1F 1G
Perfume: 1C
Silk: 2G
Spices: 1G
Sugar: 1F
Tea: 1P
Tobacco: 2G
Wine: 1F

Mine/quarry

Amber: 1C
Copper: 1P
Gems: 1G
Gold: 1G 1C
Jade: 1C
Lapis: 1G
Salt: 1F
Silver: 1G
Marble: 1P

Fishingboats:
Coral: 1G 1C
Pearls: 2G

Improvement Yields

Plantation:
Citrus: 1F 1G
Cocoa: 2G
Coffee: 2G
Cotton: 1C 1G
Dyes: 1C 1G
Incense: 1C 1G
Olives: 2G
Perfume: 2G
Silk: 2G
Spices: 1F 1G
Sugar : 1F 1G
Tea: 1F 1G
Tobacco: 2G
Wine: 1F 1G

Mine/quarry:

Amber: 1P
Copper: 1P
Gems: 1G 1P
Gold: 1P
Jade: 1P
Lapis: 1P
Salt: 1F 1P
Silver: 1G 1P
Marble: 2P

Fishingboats:
Coral: 1P 1C
Pearls: 1P 1C


Buildings

Market:
Spices: 1F 1P
Sugar : 1F 1G

Amphitheater:
Dyes: 1C 1G
Silk: 1G 1C
Lapis Lazuli : 2C

Temple:
Wine: 1C 1G
Incense: 1C 1G
Amber: 1G 1C

Bath/Garden:
Citrus : 1F 1G
Cocoa: 1F 1G

Colosseum:
Olives: 1F 1G
Perfume: 2C

Stone Works: (with this production-reduction the base +1 Hammer could be added back to it imho)
Salt: 1P 1G
Jade: 1P 1G
Marble: 1P 1G

Forge: (the same deal as the stone works)
Copper: 1P 1G
Iron: 1P 1G

Caravansary:
Cotton: 1C 1P
Truffles: 2G
Furs: 1G 1P

Grocer:
Coffee: 2P 1G
Tea: 1P 2G
Tobacco: 3G

Bank:
Silver: 1G 1P 1C
Gold: 3G
Gems: 1G 2C