Resources Placed in an Order?

[wolf_brother]

Hey All,

I've spent the past few days wracking my head and searching the forums looking for an answer to my question and I can't find it. I'm just about to go crazy here

IIRC, isn't there a very specific order in which resources have to be organized when you add new ones, or are starting a mod from scratch, in order to make the appearance and disappearance ratios continue to work correctly? I could have sworn that I had read that several years ago when I first started lurking the forums, but it seems I can't find the thread anymore, and none of my IRL civ friends seem to remember what the exact order was either. Again, IIRC I believe its something along the lines of eight bonus resources, then lux's, then strategic, then all other bonuses, however I don't remember if that's correct or not and I'd really hate to place a bunch of resources on a map only to have to delete them later as I re-arrange things from not having it right the first time around.

If anyone has the answer, or could direct me to the appropriate thread, that would be awesome

 

[WildWeazel]

You're thinking of the ghost resource bug, which only applies if you have more than 32 total resources.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=200402

 

[wolf_brother]

Thank you very much!
---

EDITED. See Post below.

 

[The Guardian]

You create your mod, and when your finished, you can use steph's editor to place the resources in the proper order.

 

[wolf_brother]

I hate to bump my own thread, but it seems like editing my past statement killed the conversation

So not to beat a dead horse here but am I understanding things correctly in saying that for scenarios that;

• have over thirty-two resources,
• are on pre-placed maps,
• are trying to reduce turn-times via the 'El Justo' method

the solution is to place bonus resources in places 1-11 and 33-43, while strategic and luxuries in places 12-32. Correct?
Am I missing anything?

 

[embryodead]

There's something wrong with it, e.g. resource 32 will ghost resource 21 (32+32-43) etc.

If you're doing the mod from scratch and want max. resources you can just use blocks of 32 w/dummies for later: exactly 32 strat/lux + 32/64/96 bonuses, in that order. You can't have more than 32 strat/lux without hitting the bug.

 

[wolf_brother]

Is there any way to get around it without the dummy blocks, ie by strategically placing the lux/strats in a certain order?

 

[Balthasar]

Now I'm a little confused. How should this be set up?

a block of 8 strategic resources
followed by a block of 8 luxury resources
followed by 16 bonus resources

then a row of blank? Does it matter?

Then a new block of 32 resources as described above? Does an alternate mix of, say, 12 strategic, 4 luxury work?

In other words is it a question of arrangement on the resource pcx, or just the number or resources total, the arrangement of those resources in the biq, or all of the above?

 

[embryodead]

PCX is irrelevant, it's the BIQ position that counts, though having them matched gives you visual cues in case you run into problems.

Yes, you can mix strategic & luxury.

You don't have to do this if you have < 32 resources (incl. bonus).

You can do many different combinations, the goal is to make sure that every strategic/luxury resource +32, +64, +96... and so on points only to bonus resources or itself. Note that if the counting goes off the list, it starts from the start. Therefore it's best to keep all strategic/luxury at the beginning and have your total number of resource at 32, or 64... and so on. <- EDITED

Just putting stuff in order is not enough as the whole thing depends on the total number of resources you have. Dummies are a must if you have less resources to get to next block of 32... (edited as well, duh)

 

[embryodead]

Looking back at CornPlanter's post, here's the cliff notes version:

1. put all your strat/lux stuff at the beginning
2. have the total number of resources at any multiplication of 32.

 

[Goldfool]

Looking back at CornPlanter's post, here's the cliff notes version:

1. put all your strat/lux stuff at the beginning
2. have the total number of resources at any multiplication of 32.

Yes, I currently have 64 resources, I have the 32 strat/lux at the beginning and then add only bonus from there on.

The total number must be in multiples of 32 or you risk ghosting, so make dummies (add resources but don't assign terrain type).

I had a ghosting problem, getting resources I didn't have, this cleared it up nicely.

 

[Gojira54]

Realistically, there is no reason to bother with land-based bonus resources anyway, might as well make them strategic or luxury.

With this in mind, would it work to have 32 land-based Strat\Lux, then 32 more water-based bonus resources - without any dummy resources? This way, they can never overlap as the first 32 are on land, the next 32 on water.....

 

[WildWeazel]

Whoah, Ames! You're.... not you!

Realistically, there is no reason to bother with land-based bonus resources anyway, might as well make them strategic or luxury.

Except it just makes it that much harder to avoid side effects of the bug...

With this in mind, would it work to have 32 land-based Strat\Lux, then 32 more water-based bonus resources - without any dummy resources? This way, they can never overlap as the first 32 are on land, the next 32 on water.....

You'll still get them, because it has nothing to do with where they "can" actually appear. Of course, getting sea-based resources shouldn't really be a problem because they wouldn't be required for building something anyway. The problem isn't with the resource appearing in the city per se, it's that you can use it to build things that shouldn't be buildable there.

 

[wolf_brother]

So, does it even matter what order your put in the resources then, as long as you have the block of 32 'dummy' resources in slots 32-64?

 

[embryodead]

The only order is all strats/luxuries first, bonuses second. They don't have to be dummies, I'm sure you can find some use for them.

It doesn't have to be 32 S/L + 32 B, can be 20 S/L + 44 B etc. as well, as long you have 64 total.

 

[Gojira54]

The only order is all strats/luxuries first, bonuses second. They don't have to be dummies, I'm sure you can find some use for them.

It doesn't have to be 32 S/L + 32 B, can be 20 S/L + 44 B etc. as well, as long you have 64 total.

Max 32 Strat/lux, too, right?

I was wondering if the following would work, too, though I am sure no one has tried this:

Civs A, B, and C start off with Tech A, which allows resources Strat\Lux 1-32 and bonus 65 - 96. Civs D, E, & F start off with Tech B, which allows resources Strat\Lux 33-64 and bonus 97 - 128. The techs are not tradable. Would this cause any issues?

Yes, this in relation to Modzilla, where the human civs will have completely different resources from the Kaiju. Most likely I will have resource groups of 16, not 32, but I wonder if anyone has taken their testing this far?

 

[Vuldacon]

The only order is all strats/luxuries first, bonuses second. They don't have to be dummies, I'm sure you can find some use for them.

It doesn't have to be 32 S/L + 32 B, can be 20 S/L + 44 B etc. as well, as long you have 64 total.

Embrydead... If there are less than 32 Strategic and Luxury Resources such as 20 then there need not be 44 manditory Bonus Resources. The Bonus Resources could be more or less as desired unless I am missing something.

 

[Balthasar]

Okay, I think I've got it now; correct me if I'm wrong about any of the following -

1. The Resource pcx can have all the images it wants. It doesn't matter.

2. in the biq, however:

- Under 32 total resources - no problem, carry on.

- more than 32 total resources:

1. the total must be a multiple of 32.

2. As long as the total is a multiple of 32 the ratio of S/L/B doesn't matter, except

3. the S/L resources should all come first on the list

4. you can't have more than 32 S/L resources or you get "ghosts"

5. within that 32 S/L, the ratio is variable.

If all of the above is true, then I have just one last question: does that mean that a mod could have 31 S, one L, and 44 bonus resources? Or one S and 31 L resources?

 

[embryodead]

Max 32 Strat/lux, too, right?

Yes.

Civs A, B, and C start off with Tech A, which allows resources Strat\Lux 1-32 and bonus 65 - 96. Civs D, E, & F start off with Tech B, which allows resources Strat\Lux 33-64 and bonus 97 - 128. The techs are not tradable. Would this cause any issues?

This simply doesn't work - ghost resources appear even if you don't have the tech required to see them.

Embrydead... If there are less than 32 Strategic and Luxury Resources such as 20 then there need not be 44 manditory Bonus Resources. The Bonus Resources could be more or less as desired unless I am missing something.

But that's exactly the case where there IS need for extra bonuses - the whole point of putting them there is to prevent the bug from appearing "If there are less than 32 Strategic and Luxury Resources". If there are more than 32, you cannot prevent the bug at all - unless you pre-place airports everywhere etc.

There is no need for extra bonuses, or anything at all, if you have less than 32 resources *total*, incl. bonuses.

up to 32 total resources

Nooooo... up to 32 total strategic/luxury resources

+ any number of bonus resources, as long as the total number of all resources is less than 32 or exactly 32, 64, 96, 128 etc.

 

[Gojira54]

This simply doesn't work - ghost resources appear even if you don't have the tech required to see them.

Thanks, was planning for the grouping by 16 anyway, this confirms it.