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Restart?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by adsin15, Apr 9, 2016.

  1. adsin15

    adsin15 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    Charlton MA
    OK at the beginning of the game you get the option to reroll your map while keeping the same faction. I love this option. Sometimes you get a truly tragic start.

    However this got me thinking of Master of Orion. In MOO a guy came up with a clear formula for judging the quality of your starting location based on the number of stars within range, their exact ranges from you and the stars color. Then you could judge whether your start was "statistically" awesome or terrible. You had a actual number to look at.

    Do you guys restart your games when your start is just "meh", like only 2 Luxes? Do you only restart if you are surrounded by snow and ice in all directions 2 spaces beyond your Capitol? Are you hardcore and NEVER restart no matter what?

    Do you count luxes/bonus resources and hammers/food etc when deciding whether or not to restart? How important is your starting city to you? Do you have a certain trick, formula or other "signal" to let you know that this location is PARTICULARLY strong for a starting city?
     
  2. SoonerJBD

    SoonerJBD Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Messages:
    142
    I don't necessarily count resources, but I know an awful start when I see it. If there isn't good workable dirt, I'm likely to re-roll. I don't have to have four salts and a natural wonder, but I need something I can work with. Sometimes you get a just OK start but a close expo site with incredible potential. I love having a close expansion site with good desert that gives me a chance at rushing Petra with a GE when I finish Liberty. I love a couple of good coastal sites with a couple of workable sea resources that guarantee the option to send cargo ship food routes to your Capitol.

    I just need something to work with. If half the dirt in my three rings is tundra, I'm out.
     
  3. Dushku

    Dushku Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2015
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    515
    I restart often. Not too often on turn 0, but within the first 20 turns, I usually have an idea if the start is whack or not.
     
  4. KingKong76

    KingKong76 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
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    240
    I'm making a lot of reroll lately, because I actualy trying to make the step up to Diety and I really need a great start to have a shot.

    I look for several things.
    1. I like to have minng ressources that will give me prod and a faith pantheon. Only chance to get a religion on diety... for me at least. So I like to have multiple copies of silver, copper, gold or salt. Gems do it aswel, but its knd of rare to have it as a regional ressource.

    2. I really like to have at least 3X 2foods+1prod tiles (before improvement) in my 1st circle around capital, especaly if I'm not on a hill.

    3. I need to have at least 5 tiles that will provide more than 1 hammer (pretty fats)

    4. I like to have at least 5 tiles that will provide at least 4 foods or 3 foods+1hammer at least when Ill get civil service.

    5. of course, 2 different lux ressources

    Its pretty picky, I was not even that picky when playing lower level, but for now ts that or I reroll.
     
  5. sunbeam

    sunbeam Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2012
    Messages:
    283
    If you plan on doing anything with religion you need something that will generate faith around the capitol.

    All the different pantheon beliefs - and you can't take any of them like Sun God, Goddess of the Hunt, or Sacred Path because if you don't found a religion it only benefits you for a brief while, because someone is always going down the piety path and spamming missionaries. So you can't really take anything but a faith generating pantheon, and you need the right kind of resources to make that work.

    Well unless you have another way to do it. In my experience Ethiopia has by far the easiest time founding a religion. Not sure about Shoshone if you are really angling that way, but I've had plenty of Celt starts without forests.

    So if I am trying to use religion, or playing Byzantium, I restart often.
     
  6. sixty4half

    sixty4half Prince

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    Apr 12, 2015
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    I restart 4 or more Salt Starts. I restart when I have 5 or more of a combination of Gold/Silver/Copper. Hell, even 5 Quarry resources is close to a restart for me. I also restart if I'm in Medival Era and am already steamrolling the AI. I'm still working on a full transition to Immortal and then hopefully Diety. I don't need awesome sauce starts making my game super easy and giving me an inflated sense of achievement.

    I'm sure this is completely the opposite of the answer you were looking for, but I think I'm in a different place, in regards to my game, as others are.
     
  7. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,176
    I liked playing on horrible starts in Civ4, because it was fun for some reason. Not really sure why I did that.

    Civ5's horrible starts is just not that fun to play for some strange reason because I liked playing in civ4. Maybe i just got bored of uphill battles.
     
  8. Illianor123

    Illianor123 Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    293
    I sometimes restart, if the game looks to be particularly poor, and expansion opportunities won't make up for it.

    I just wish that if I start a game as a random civ, I get another random civ, not the same civ.
     
  9. docbud

    docbud Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
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    1,518
    I'm glad to see others re-roll or restart. I thought I was the only one by some of the stuff I've read here on the forums.

    I definitely re-roll if I get a start not suited to the civ I chose. For example, if I play as the Aztecs and get a dessert start. Or playing as Arabia and getting a jungle start. Or Incas and I have no hills whatsoever.

    I will restart if I don't have a strategic resource suitable for my civ. Like no horses when playing as Mongolia or Arabia, or iron playing as England or Denmark.

    I hate starting with a ton of incense as I find it useless. Sure--it's gold and nice to trade, but it has no production value. I find that I really suffer early game.

    Salt start is nice, but not necessary; though I have to admit that with a salt start I'm practically guaranteed to win. I have just started playing on Emperor level.

    I'll also restart or re-roll if I'm stuck in tundra. Or if I meet Shaka or Alexander on turn 5 or 6 :(
     
  10. ShakaKhan

    ShakaKhan King

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2015
    Messages:
    857
    I restart frequently, I'd say on average I play 1 out of 3 maps I roll. I have two conflicting thoughts on the matter

    1.) I shouldn't need to restart often because there's not a lot that I need to win on Deity:
    -I don't need to found a religion
    -I don't need an especially high production or growth start, moderate in either is enough
    -I don't need more than three cities, and two is usually enough in a pinch.

    2.)Why play the crummier starts which are inevitably going to lead to more frustration, poorer results, and possibly defeat instead of victory? I realize the extreme level of this logic leads one to conclude "no triple salt = reroll," and that's not what I do nor do I advise. I'm talking more about re-rolling when you have the non-river, tundra start with only trapping resources that aren't even on forests. I say re-roll here, because I have won on deity in this condition. And it was a much, much later victory, less impressive, more headaches, more frustration... I'd rather just re-roll to get you average riverside grass start with plantation resources and have more fun, better results, and less frustration.
     
  11. docbud

    docbud Emperor

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    One out of three?

    Heck--some night I'll keep re-rolling for 15 or 20 minutes.

    I see you point about re-rolling or restarting for a huge salt start. I just prefer a normal start. I re-rolled several times because I had "legendary start" selected and several times in a row I had two stone and one bananna. The last I knew--I can't trade stone or bananna. And I'm serious--no other luxury anywhere in that starting position.

    And I wil confess--I will re-roll a half-dozen times in the hopes of a salt start if the other starts are crap. But if I get gold, silver, gems, or something like that, I'll stick with it.

    But then again--I'm only an Emperor-leve player.
     
  12. KingKong76

    KingKong76 Warlord

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    Use to do that too on emperor. Started with Moroco all down to Wu Zeitan... playing all radom not allowing myself to resart and won most of the games. I could probably do it on Immortal too (with lower succes rate tho), but when it comes to Deity, AI have so many bonus, it's impossible. In fact the gap betwee Deity an Immortal is twice as harsh as any other gap between any other levels.

    In fact when you make it to Deity and hopr to win more than 25% of your games, you will actualy pray for those starts!! loll

    BTW I dont think I ever saw a 6 Quarries start... Would indeed be a bit overkill indeed.
     
  13. sixty4half

    sixty4half Prince

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    Not 6 but I've had a 2 Marble 3 Stone start before. Stone Circles was insane.
     
  14. KingKong76

    KingKong76 Warlord

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    indeed!! Thats ridiculous!!
     
  15. sixty4half

    sixty4half Prince

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    Yeah, and that's why I don't take those starts any more. At least on the difficulty I'm on. Once I get to Diety I'm sure I'll be clamoring for those. But having a passive +10 Faith just because of where you settled is pretty OP.


    You know what is the only start I don't think I've ever seen is a Gems based start. Those are Jungle Biased right? I always seem to see Gem/Hills in the Jungle IIRC. I've taken Tears of the Gods because of Pearls, but never Gems. Is getting 2 Gems in your Capital a good start? I'd imagine it's similar to Gold/Silver starts but without the Mint bonus. I guess the major early inconvenience would be Bronze working to chop Jungles and Jungle chops not giving +hammers.
     
  16. lemonfreshness

    lemonfreshness Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
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    Location:
    Colorado
    I'll actually reroll if I get a start with the same resources as the start of my previous game. Otherwise I seem to get the late-game humdrum early on.

    But I'm a habitual reroller anyway.
     
  17. Alkaid

    Alkaid Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
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    Same here. I restart a lot and felt like an oddball here.

    Honestly, I'm not trying to get a super good start or anything, but rather a "not boring" one. I just like to get something that looks like it'll be interesting, at least. If I get tundra or bad desert I don't think "man, no way I'll win with a start like this." It's more of a, "well this is gonna be a boring slog to play with". Same with starts covered in tons of jungle or forest without a lot of resources/luxuries to make up for it.
     
  18. danaphanous

    danaphanous religious fanatic

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    I'm tempted to reroll if I'm playing Deity if the start is particularly awful, but I don't seek out an amazing start, just a non-awful one. You don't need an amazing start to win. On any other level I usually just play the first map I get. I define "awful starts" as production-poor grassland with gold-giving luxes and resources that can't be buffed much by a religion and lack of any 3-food tiles prior workers. It's even slightly worse if you are also land-locked or on water with few riverside tiles. There are also some pretty bad tundra-river starts if you are denied significant forest or many food tiles like deer but I rarely see things this bad. Plus tundra is at least interesting due to pantheons.

    I don't expect others to play this way though, whatever makes the game interesting for you. :) Personally I find tougher starts a bit more interesting. I'm passing the AI in science and winning far too quickly if the start is good. I recently played a Deity Maya game that had bison, deer, AND truffles about start and forest-covered plains. The early growth was pretty bad but I picked goddess of the hunt, religious community, tithes, and +2 happiness from temples to support early growth. Now my growth and production is phenomenal. I'm passing the AI tech leader already by turn 120 and can already wonder-spam. Imagine if I'd rerolled for something really OP? Probably gonna be a boring game unless shaka rushes me soon. My favorite games are ones which have the potential to play well but only if you pull off a risky strategy or rush a religion to help you like this one.

    It's fun to dominate but not unless there are challenges to overcome along the way imho.
     
  19. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

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    Reroll if:
    1. One or fewer luxes
    2. No hills or foreseeable production options
    3. No hill to settle
    4. No immediate growth in your first ring; 3 :c5food: or 2 :c5food: 1 :c5production:, or more.
    5. No mid growth; river, ocean resources, good granary resources

    That's about it. Any one of the above can be easily dealt with, but once you're reaching two or three of the above you need to reroll. Ideally, there'll be something like ~6 bonus resources, ~4 total luxuries (not necessarily unique) and ~5 hills. However non ideal starts can be easily overcome. I'd say the only surefire reason to reroll is if ~30+ % of your tiles are dead. Dead tiles= flat, no-forest tundra, flat, no-river, no-forest plains, flat, no river, no forest grassland, flat desert, mountains, and no-resource water tiles.
     
  20. Sherlock

    Sherlock Just one more turn...

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    How do you do a restart in the first turn?
     

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