The Flame8
Prince
It's ok, I would like to help and use svn once I can get the download done. Love the idea!
RFC Classical World
- Thread starter srpt
- Start date
Tigranes
Armenian
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2008
- Messages
- 10,410
Very happy with my first Alexander the Great victory (2/3 was done 9 turns before the deadline). By the way 2 UHV says "by" but it checks "in" instead. I have razed the biggest of two Chu's cities and used Slaves and UP to rush the Terracotta Army.
Great Wall did not appear graphically when I built it, please fix it, it is nice to see the only man-made feature visible from the space. It is very realistic that Great Wall allows barbarians to harass you -- that's what happened in the real life. Deploying UUs in the key border locations is the only way to fight the nasty Horseman. I even lost my capital after my boys managed to loose to the barbarian invaders with 90% winning odds without even scratching them
(check out my combat log!).Overall nice game, good synergy between UP, UB, UU and UHVs. You can consider Qin complete. Perhaps one could ask for 10 provinces instead of 8 in 50 BC. And capital better be named Xianyang (rename to Changan if Han captures it).
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excellent work!
I have also been playing the Qin lately and having a lot of fun with them. I agree that they seem well balanced. was fighting off the Han a challenge?
I'm changing the Satavahana conquest goal to "control 2 shrines in 50AD" (year could be changed depending on difficulty). I played them a couple of times and was spending too long researching Elephant Training (don't want to start them with it). with this shrine goal they have some options since there are 3 holy cities within reach and they need the priests from Caste System to get the Prophets. I'd like to give them a Kshatriya type UU that counters elephants. maybe an archer? still looking for cool looking unit to use. a 4 str archer with +100% attack vs elephants maybe.
I have also been playing the Qin lately and having a lot of fun with them. I agree that they seem well balanced. was fighting off the Han a challenge?
I'm changing the Satavahana conquest goal to "control 2 shrines in 50AD" (year could be changed depending on difficulty). I played them a couple of times and was spending too long researching Elephant Training (don't want to start them with it). with this shrine goal they have some options since there are 3 holy cities within reach and they need the priests from Caste System to get the Prophets. I'd like to give them a Kshatriya type UU that counters elephants. maybe an archer? still looking for cool looking unit to use. a 4 str archer with +100% attack vs elephants maybe.
thrash4ever
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 12, 2012
- Messages
- 20
I've been enjoying this mod very much, very nice graphics and civs..., it's an awesome mod!
Anyway I feel the graphic in China can be further improved, and some cities can be added to make it more realistic and fun.
Please see the attached RAR, the pics in it more or less can say everything but I still want to explain a little bit:
1, More rivers:
Some of the major rivers like the river of Han, Huai are missing. That is disappointing, because the river of Han is important for the Han Dynasty, the dynasty got its name from this river, also did the nation of Han Chinese; the river of Huai is more or less the boundry between North and South China.
I also added some "small" rivers like Luo, it's culturally important for it lies south of the ancient capital Luoyang; also like the river of Mudan, it flows through Sanggeong, the capital of Balhae Kingdom... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanggyeong
The biggest inland river in China: Tarim river, should be placed back, because it nurished most of the silk road oasis towns in Tarim basin. I also put on Khotan river because I feel Khotan should be added, I tell you why in 2, More cities.
2, More cities:
China Proper:
Dunhuang (Shazhou in Tang Dynasty) SHOULD be allowed: when I was playing as Tang, I went to the spot only to find the place inhabitable!! I think we can put some oasis 1 tile west to allow it, it's too important a town along the silk road. If you look at the Mogao Caves you'll know it was Hong Kong of the time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogao_Caves
Guzang (Wuwei in Han, Liangzhou in Tang) could pop up as an independent city around 410 AD, it was the capital of Northern Liang after Jin Dynasty fled to the south. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Liang
Pingcheng SHOULD pop up as an independent city around 398 AD, it was the capital of the Northern Wei built by Xianbei people, who played a role to China like the Germanic tribes did to Roman Empire. Pingcheng was the centre of North China from 398 to 493. In 938 AD the Khitans took the city and made it its western capital: Datong.
Jinyang SHOULD be an independent city from the start of this game. One error in the senario is that a city called "Tai-yuan" popped up in a totally not related place
! "Tai-yuan" and "Jinyang" are two names of one city, and the proper spot of it is stated in the pic attached.
Liaodong (Xiangping can also do) in South Manchuria should be a must build city for Qin, Han and all dynasties. It's been traditionally a Chinese dominated place, which fell to Goguryeo in 404 AD, renamed to Yodong. Tang Dynasty fought some nasty wars to get Liaodong back: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goguryeo-Tang_Wars. It should be one of the goals of all Chinese Dynasties to control Liaodong.
Ba (Yuzhou in Tang, Chongqing after Song Dynasty), could be an independent city along with Shu when the game starts.
Ying (Jiangling in Qin, Han, Jingzhou in Tang), should be an independent city when the game starts. It was the capital of Chu state 680-278 BC.
Wuchang could be added near 220 AD, along with Jianye (later Jiankang, current Nanjing), they were the 2 important capitals of Eastern Wu in the Three Kingdoms Period, after the fall of Han Dynasty. It would be realistic if when Han collapses, the city of Jiangdu be auto destroyed, to allow Jianye be built (only one tile southwest).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Wu
Wu should be an independent city since the game starts. It was the capital of Wu state 12th century BC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_(state). After being captured by Qin, it served more or less as the centre of Southeast China, until the fall of Han Dynasty.
Hangzhou is optional. I add this because it was the capital of Southern Song 11271279 AD, when it was named Lin'an. However this game doesn't have a civ Song so it could be omitted.
And also, when I hover over the places near Luoyang and Jiankang, all the way down to Changsha, the tile info always calls it "Chu". It's true that in Warring States period these places were all occupied or vassalized by Chu state, it will be too obscure to call all these places "Chu". Please go to "Tile Info" for my suggestion based on Spring and Autumn states and Prefectures set up by bigger states in the Warring States period.
Manchuria:
It's a pity that we don't have Balhaes, Khitans, Jurchens, Manchus in the game. But I think you can have some independent cities popped up with some strong knights to simulate the situation.
Sanggeong poppes up in 756 AD, it was the Balhae capital. The Balhae was most of the time a vassal of Tang, so it should be in peace with Tang when it appears.
Linhuang in 918 AD, the "upper capital" of Khitan Liao Dynasty. At war with Song Empire from the start, it should be hostile to any Chinese Dynasties in the game.
Huining, poppes up 1115, capital of Jin Dynasty (11151234, the empire built by Jurchens, not to be confused with the Jin 265420 by the Han Chinese Sima Clan).
In 1644, Liaodong auto destroyed, to allow Mukden (Shenyang when captured by Chinese), Sanggeong to become Ninguta, Jilin, Mergen, Aigun, Boli, Kijimi Wai, Fuyori appear at the same time. This is to make a base for the Manchus to conquer China Proper.
East Turkistan:
There should be more resources like grain or sheep near these settlements to enable the growth, and maybe some commodities like SPICES, GRAPES, which were not found in China until Han Dynasty took them from the newly conquered West Region.
Kumul (Yiwu by Han, Yizhou by Tang, Hami now), important silk road town, should auto appear 206 BCE, when Han Dynasty beginns.
Kara Khoja (Gaochang by Han, Xizhou by Tang, Turfan now), appears also along with Kumul, a busy town famous for its great heat. It was an independent state since 439 AD though overrun by different forces, until it was taken by Tang 640 AD.
Beshbalik, the Uyghur ancient southern capital, appears 713 AD, Tang annexd it and named it Tingzhou or Bei Ting.
Kucha, a rich, Buddhist city state near the Tarim River, some flood plain can be added on the river bank nearby. Should appear along with Kumul. Kucha was the largest of the 'Thirty-six kingdoms of the Western Regions,' according to Book of Han.
Khotan SHOULD be there when the game starts. Its jade trade history was longer than any historians thought, because in a Shang Dynasty (16001046 BCE) tomb, Nephrite Jade from Khotan was found by archeologists. Thoughout ancient China Khotan has been the main source of this kind of jade, that's why I say it's a must have city. And off cource some sources of JADE should be added nearby to reflect this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khotan
Almarikh, Ile in later times, around 1221 AD, a city built by Mongols. Optional.
I hope this helps! Looking forward for an even more interesting Mod!
Anyway I feel the graphic in China can be further improved, and some cities can be added to make it more realistic and fun.
Please see the attached RAR, the pics in it more or less can say everything but I still want to explain a little bit:
1, More rivers:
Some of the major rivers like the river of Han, Huai are missing. That is disappointing, because the river of Han is important for the Han Dynasty, the dynasty got its name from this river, also did the nation of Han Chinese; the river of Huai is more or less the boundry between North and South China.
I also added some "small" rivers like Luo, it's culturally important for it lies south of the ancient capital Luoyang; also like the river of Mudan, it flows through Sanggeong, the capital of Balhae Kingdom... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanggyeong
The biggest inland river in China: Tarim river, should be placed back, because it nurished most of the silk road oasis towns in Tarim basin. I also put on Khotan river because I feel Khotan should be added, I tell you why in 2, More cities.
2, More cities:
China Proper:
Dunhuang (Shazhou in Tang Dynasty) SHOULD be allowed: when I was playing as Tang, I went to the spot only to find the place inhabitable!! I think we can put some oasis 1 tile west to allow it, it's too important a town along the silk road. If you look at the Mogao Caves you'll know it was Hong Kong of the time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogao_Caves
Guzang (Wuwei in Han, Liangzhou in Tang) could pop up as an independent city around 410 AD, it was the capital of Northern Liang after Jin Dynasty fled to the south. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Liang
Pingcheng SHOULD pop up as an independent city around 398 AD, it was the capital of the Northern Wei built by Xianbei people, who played a role to China like the Germanic tribes did to Roman Empire. Pingcheng was the centre of North China from 398 to 493. In 938 AD the Khitans took the city and made it its western capital: Datong.
Jinyang SHOULD be an independent city from the start of this game. One error in the senario is that a city called "Tai-yuan" popped up in a totally not related place
! "Tai-yuan" and "Jinyang" are two names of one city, and the proper spot of it is stated in the pic attached.Liaodong (Xiangping can also do) in South Manchuria should be a must build city for Qin, Han and all dynasties. It's been traditionally a Chinese dominated place, which fell to Goguryeo in 404 AD, renamed to Yodong. Tang Dynasty fought some nasty wars to get Liaodong back: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goguryeo-Tang_Wars. It should be one of the goals of all Chinese Dynasties to control Liaodong.
Ba (Yuzhou in Tang, Chongqing after Song Dynasty), could be an independent city along with Shu when the game starts.
Ying (Jiangling in Qin, Han, Jingzhou in Tang), should be an independent city when the game starts. It was the capital of Chu state 680-278 BC.
Wuchang could be added near 220 AD, along with Jianye (later Jiankang, current Nanjing), they were the 2 important capitals of Eastern Wu in the Three Kingdoms Period, after the fall of Han Dynasty. It would be realistic if when Han collapses, the city of Jiangdu be auto destroyed, to allow Jianye be built (only one tile southwest).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Wu
Wu should be an independent city since the game starts. It was the capital of Wu state 12th century BC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_(state). After being captured by Qin, it served more or less as the centre of Southeast China, until the fall of Han Dynasty.
Hangzhou is optional. I add this because it was the capital of Southern Song 11271279 AD, when it was named Lin'an. However this game doesn't have a civ Song so it could be omitted.
And also, when I hover over the places near Luoyang and Jiankang, all the way down to Changsha, the tile info always calls it "Chu". It's true that in Warring States period these places were all occupied or vassalized by Chu state, it will be too obscure to call all these places "Chu". Please go to "Tile Info" for my suggestion based on Spring and Autumn states and Prefectures set up by bigger states in the Warring States period.
Manchuria:
It's a pity that we don't have Balhaes, Khitans, Jurchens, Manchus in the game. But I think you can have some independent cities popped up with some strong knights to simulate the situation.
Sanggeong poppes up in 756 AD, it was the Balhae capital. The Balhae was most of the time a vassal of Tang, so it should be in peace with Tang when it appears.
Linhuang in 918 AD, the "upper capital" of Khitan Liao Dynasty. At war with Song Empire from the start, it should be hostile to any Chinese Dynasties in the game.
Huining, poppes up 1115, capital of Jin Dynasty (11151234, the empire built by Jurchens, not to be confused with the Jin 265420 by the Han Chinese Sima Clan).
In 1644, Liaodong auto destroyed, to allow Mukden (Shenyang when captured by Chinese), Sanggeong to become Ninguta, Jilin, Mergen, Aigun, Boli, Kijimi Wai, Fuyori appear at the same time. This is to make a base for the Manchus to conquer China Proper.
East Turkistan:
There should be more resources like grain or sheep near these settlements to enable the growth, and maybe some commodities like SPICES, GRAPES, which were not found in China until Han Dynasty took them from the newly conquered West Region.
Kumul (Yiwu by Han, Yizhou by Tang, Hami now), important silk road town, should auto appear 206 BCE, when Han Dynasty beginns.
Kara Khoja (Gaochang by Han, Xizhou by Tang, Turfan now), appears also along with Kumul, a busy town famous for its great heat. It was an independent state since 439 AD though overrun by different forces, until it was taken by Tang 640 AD.
Beshbalik, the Uyghur ancient southern capital, appears 713 AD, Tang annexd it and named it Tingzhou or Bei Ting.
Kucha, a rich, Buddhist city state near the Tarim River, some flood plain can be added on the river bank nearby. Should appear along with Kumul. Kucha was the largest of the 'Thirty-six kingdoms of the Western Regions,' according to Book of Han.
Khotan SHOULD be there when the game starts. Its jade trade history was longer than any historians thought, because in a Shang Dynasty (16001046 BCE) tomb, Nephrite Jade from Khotan was found by archeologists. Thoughout ancient China Khotan has been the main source of this kind of jade, that's why I say it's a must have city. And off cource some sources of JADE should be added nearby to reflect this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khotan
Almarikh, Ile in later times, around 1221 AD, a city built by Mongols. Optional.
I hope this helps! Looking forward for an even more interesting Mod!
Attachments
cannot thank you enough for all this detail and effort. I'm sure I will implement most or all of this in one way or another. some cities might not make it due to crowding, but we can talk about that as we go.
1 thing though, the mod ends in 850AD, can't go any further, there's already 38 civs.
1 thing though, the mod ends in 850AD, can't go any further, there's already 38 civs.
new UP for Yamato/Japan: 1/2 research cost on techs known to your neighbors
I am going to start them out behind in tech and give them 2 well defended (ie promoted up to date units and walls) indy/barb cities to deal with. it should still be necessary for them to steal techs to succeed.
I am going to start them out behind in tech and give them 2 well defended (ie promoted up to date units and walls) indy/barb cities to deal with. it should still be necessary for them to steal techs to succeed.
also happy to announce I have the Pilgrim unit working. as described above, he turns into a missionary at the Holy City. not sure if he should be able to cross foreign borders or not.
the Pilgrim is in the svn now, available with Priesthood, does pass foreign borders for now, limited to 1 unit at a time. there is a C++ exception that occurs if you use it in a double Holy City which actually crashes the game, but for the East Asian civs grabbing Buddhism it works fine.
edit: fixed the double holy city problem. I have to say I'm a little bit impressed with myself for having done so. I knew it would be a problem in Jerusalem if nowhere else.
to make the effect more interesting, could do this: 100% chance of pilgrimage success if the city is holy or has a reliquary, lesser chance if it just has the religion, with religious buildings adding to the chance. so say you're a pilgrim from Goguryeo in Samarkand, which has Buddhism, but just a Temple, giving you a middling chance of success. do you risk it or move on to India, where success is assured?
the Pilgrim is in the svn now, available with Priesthood, does pass foreign borders for now, limited to 1 unit at a time. there is a C++ exception that occurs if you use it in a double Holy City which actually crashes the game, but for the East Asian civs grabbing Buddhism it works fine.
edit: fixed the double holy city problem. I have to say I'm a little bit impressed with myself for having done so. I knew it would be a problem in Jerusalem if nowhere else.
to make the effect more interesting, could do this: 100% chance of pilgrimage success if the city is holy or has a reliquary, lesser chance if it just has the religion, with religious buildings adding to the chance. so say you're a pilgrim from Goguryeo in Samarkand, which has Buddhism, but just a Temple, giving you a middling chance of success. do you risk it or move on to India, where success is assured?
thrash4ever
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 12, 2012
- Messages
- 20
No problem man
Yeah, the cities do get crowded. Off course some of them shouldn't appear at the same time, and trust me I've already omitted a lot
Still playtesting this MOD, will tell you more when I have more ideas. Cheers!
Yeah, the cities do get crowded. Off course some of them shouldn't appear at the same time, and trust me I've already omitted a lot
Still playtesting this MOD, will tell you more when I have more ideas. Cheers!
Wessel V1
Emperor
Sounds good to me. I didn't do much playtesting last week, usually only in weekends and and a sometimes spare game on Tuesday. However, this time I forgot to take a mouse home so I have to play civ on the touch pad. It annoys the crap out of me so no results from me until I find a solution...
merijn_v1
Black Belt
I don't know for sure, but IIRC, I searched for it in google. It was very hard to find anything about the Satavahana military. I could only find something about the Dakshnapatha Cavalry, so I decided to use it. Back then, I wanted to give every civ an UU and UB. Some of them were placeholders. The Dakshnapatha Cavalry is one of these.
I tried, but I can't. There isn't a button that makes me able to upload the files. See screenshot. (It also shows how it looks like in RFCE) If you change some settings I might be able to upload the files.
DC123456789
Deity
Any plans to have the religion screen showing holy cities?
Spoiler :
Very happy with my first Alexander the Great victory (2/3 was done 9 turns before the deadline). By the way 2 UHV says "by" but it checks "in" instead. I have razed the biggest of two Chu's cities and used Slaves and UP to rush the Terracotta Army.
Great Wall did not appear graphically when I built it, please fix it, it is nice to see the only man-made feature visible from the space. It is very realistic that Great Wall allows barbarians to harass you -- that's what happened in the real life. Deploying UUs in the key border locations is the only way to fight the nasty Horseman. I even lost my capital after my boys managed to loose to the barbarian invaders with 90% winning odds without even scratching them
Overall nice game, good synergy between UP, UB, UU and UHVs. You can consider Qin complete. Perhaps one could ask for 10 provinces instead of 8 in 50 BC. And capital better be named Xianyang (rename to Changan if Han captures it).
Congratulations! This sounds fun, I can't wait to try out the Qin again when I get home.
(Just a small pet peeve of mine: the Great Wall cannot be seen from space. Assuming the closest you can get in low earth orbit at 200 km height (wikipedia says 200-2000 km) and 5 m wide means an angular size of 0.086 minutes of arc, equivalent to a visual acuity of 20/2, ten times better than normal vision and five times better than the best human.)
finally managed to get a new regular download up. link
merijn_v1 you have been added as an admin on sourceforge.
Qin and Satavahana UPs have been moved to the DLL and no longer make use of hidden UUs. this will allow the Qin power to function properly for slaves which are captured workers and allow the Satavahana power to apply to Missionaries aquired from a pilgrim.
the Satavahana will get a new UU, the Kshatriya, 5 str axeman with +50% vs elephants, once the art is in place.
I took the holy city display out of the religion screen because for some reason I wasn't able to shrink the font enough to fit them all. I will try again sometime soon.
merijn_v1 you have been added as an admin on sourceforge.
Qin and Satavahana UPs have been moved to the DLL and no longer make use of hidden UUs. this will allow the Qin power to function properly for slaves which are captured workers and allow the Satavahana power to apply to Missionaries aquired from a pilgrim.
the Satavahana will get a new UU, the Kshatriya, 5 str axeman with +50% vs elephants, once the art is in place.
I took the holy city display out of the religion screen because for some reason I wasn't able to shrink the font enough to fit them all. I will try again sometime soon.
some map changes added. Tarim river and Fen river, Jinyang moved, Guangling out, Wu and Nanjing in, Khotan spawns just after the Tocharians so they don't flip it, site has a bit of food and gems, also moved a bunch of n China resources and added the province of Wu.
thrash4ever
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 12, 2012
- Messages
- 20
Oh my gosh you're so efficient!
Just another suggestion about the site of Luoyang city, I feel it'll be more geographically realistic if this city be moved 1 tile west, (1 tile closer to Chang'an). Because the current site is more or less the site of the modern city of Zhengzhou. See map:
As you can see, Luoyang is really a mountainous region. That makes sense because the city was first bulit as a military post, and you don't build it on an open plain.
Just another suggestion about the site of Luoyang city, I feel it'll be more geographically realistic if this city be moved 1 tile west, (1 tile closer to Chang'an). Because the current site is more or less the site of the modern city of Zhengzhou. See map:
As you can see, Luoyang is really a mountainous region. That makes sense because the city was first bulit as a military post, and you don't build it on an open plain.
That's a myth..
merijn_v1
Black Belt
It's indeed a myth.
The reason why it isn't shown is that srpt doesn't like the art of the GW, so he gave it a dummy (monument) art.
The reason why it isn't shown is that srpt doesn't like the art of the GW, so he gave it a dummy (monument) art.
sorry I haven't had much time lately (again). I've actaully been trying to wrap my head around brand new style of music (for me) for a gig tonight. a rush job but an opportunity I couldn't pass up.
about the great wall, I don't mind putting the graphic back in. I find it sometimes immersion-breaking when the state of the player's cultural borders make the placement on the map look goofy. I'd actually like to make it appear as it should, in the north only, from Gansu to the sea. on a fixed map that should be possible, so I'll look into it sometime. I want to keep the game effect as it is though. if it blocks barbs completely it will just cause central asia and india to get crushed.
about the great wall, I don't mind putting the graphic back in. I find it sometimes immersion-breaking when the state of the player's cultural borders make the placement on the map look goofy. I'd actually like to make it appear as it should, in the north only, from Gansu to the sea. on a fixed map that should be possible, so I'll look into it sometime. I want to keep the game effect as it is though. if it blocks barbs completely it will just cause central asia and india to get crushed.
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