RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[yogiebere]

hmm..... I usually don't play till that late in the game, but in "a perfect world"/"perfect game", civilizations which historically converted to Lutheranism have a greater chance of going ahead with it, like Germany, the Dutch (well thats automatic now), English and the Nordic countries (Norway and Sweden), while you should hardly EVER see a Huguenot controlled France (actually that would be cool to see) or a Protestant Spain or Austria.

And yes Hockeysam, I was talking about the Teutonic Knights, I don't know how I forgot their name
But I'm sure there is already some sort of unit graphic for them, so adding them should be easy and really cool at the same time

Also I continue to urge the makers of this mod, to add more unique units to RFC Europe, as unlike the Middle East or East Asia finding unique units is/was relatively hard, while for Europe, there must be a huge cache of cool unique European unit graphics.

yeah i noticed this too. Almost everyone does: notibly austria and france more often than not. I'm talking England, Dutch, France, Burgundy, Poland, Germany, Norse, Sweden, Lithuania, Austria, Hungary. Usually about 7 of those. I'm thinking it should be like preferable religions. France and Austria would have some chance like 30% as a ballpark whereas more plausible protestant nations like poland have 60% or something. Idk, but there are lots of protestants and no good benefits for catholics (check out that discussion about jesuits, that could be a good new implementation)

 

[civ_king]

yeah i noticed this too. Almost everyone does: notibly austria and france more often than not. I'm talking England, Dutch, France, Burgundy, Poland, Germany, Norse, Sweden, Lithuania, Austria, Hungary. Usually about 7 of those. I'm thinking it should be like preferable religions. France and Austria would have some chance like 30% as a ballpark whereas more plausible protestant nations like poland have 60% or something. Idk, but there are lots of protestants and no good benefits for catholics (check out that discussion about jesuits, that could be a good new implementation)

Honestly, by 1500 AD what are the benefits of Catholicism? Crusades are over, religious buildings are finished and money is secure. Which leaves the religious bonus with a handful of countries...

 

[Veshta]

The religious change should be governed the same way it was in history, through possible gain.

Germany, England and France represented vast economic and military power which facilitated the wider spread of protestantism .. do you really think that it would even have been a blip on the radar had it been 'discovered' in a small influential state?
Had the big dogs not been the instigators, the 30 Year War would be known as the 30 Second War

In RFC:E the AI tend to flip if neighbours flip or if a flipper is significantly more powerful than the best the Papal lapdogs can do ..
Example: The games where Spain knocks out Cordoba early for instance leaves them as the strongest power in Europe which means that the Reformation never really gets going.

It is actually very realistic as it is now, may not be historically accurate but it would be rather boring if it was just a history lesson

 

[Panopticon]

How is Saint Patrick's Day?

The apartment next door has playing Desi music all day to the people in the plaza below wearing leprechaun hats so, yeah, good.

 

[Panopticon]

The religious change should be governed the same way it was in history, through possible gain.

Germany, England and France represented vast economic and military power which facilitated the wider spread of protestantism .. do you really think that it would even have been a blip on the radar had it been 'discovered' in a small influential state?
Had the big dogs not been the instigators, the 30 Year War would be known as the 30 Second War

Well it was discovered in the Electorate of Saxony - hardly a great empire!

 

[Veshta]

Well it was discovered in the Electorate of Saxony - hardly a great empire!

Not that simple, unless you buy into the idea of Luther being the one and only

The idea of protestantism came about in Austria (or Switzerland) at approximately the same time, with only slight variations to the 'theme', plus you had the whole bit about the English King not being struck down for giving Rome the finger ..
Even if you go with the Lutheran version, the alliances and sympathies between all the various states and parishes of the area constituted a force to be reckoned with and it grew in strength as Rome tried to tighten its grip.

 

[kochman]

The point is, while "Germany" wasn't united, the German speaking areas within which it was spreading through was widespread.

It is actually interesting that the divided "Germany" took on the major power of Austria at the time and survived unlike the Protestants in France! Thank the Swedes.

 

[The Turk]

The point is, while "Germany" wasn't united, the German speaking areas within which it was spreading through was widespread.

It is actually interesting that the divided "Germany" took on the major power of Austria at the time and survived unlike the Protestants in France! Thank the Swedes.

Protestant League, thats how they united, while the Huguenots in France were under the suppressive Catholic Regime. And following with that idea about the Swedes and King Gustav, the 30 Years War really should be represented by some sort of event, which pits all Catholics vs Protestants. I just think that that would be pretty cool. And with that, you could have a few Austrian cities go into chaos due to the defenestration of Prague.

 

[Veshta]

Poland is fairly easy, just continues expansion and turtling really. Stability doesn't really come into play until you hit the eastern lands for the UHV and tech-wise it is possible to stay in "touch" with the bulk of the pack (FRA still a runaway).

But sweet Goddess, it is booooring. Hundreds of years with nothing to do but hit end turn .. end turn .. end turn .. *shudder*. Needs more spice

 

[fireclaw722]

I still want to say that the Reformation is broken, as I have never seen any country(AI, I don't count) adopt it, with the exception of Holland, naturally.

 

[Panopticon]

Played Cordobans. I don't think I won it, but it was just a matter of waiting for 1492. The win is not as trivial as Netherlands, but still straightforward and I would classify it as "Easy". Cordoba as largest city in the world was a marginal win against the usual strong contenders in the Middle East. I didn't encounter any particular difficulty in getting the three wonders well in time, even while taking other research paths to wait out the early-research penalty. Building eight of the unique units is enough to smash Castille, even in the midgame, and Portugal is a similar story. It's even easier to build the UUs because of the ease with which Cordoba acquires Faith Points, which speed up unit construction for Muslims, and because of the overpowered +3 hammers from the unique building.

As regards balance, the UU and UB are too good. Maybe 1 first strike for the UU instead of 2, and +1 hammer from the UB instead of +3? Portugal should get more anti-cavalry units at the start to defend against a "surgical strike" strategy.

 

[ezzlar]

Honestly, by 1500 AD what are the benefits of Catholicism? Crusades are over, religious buildings are finished and money is secure. Which leaves the religious bonus with a handful of countries...

I think the reformation event should change the catholic faith point bonus.

How about: The counter reformation: +X% attack against protestant civs?

 

[civ_king]

Poland is fairly easy, just continues expansion and turtling really. Stability doesn't really come into play until you hit the eastern lands for the UHV and tech-wise it is possible to stay in "touch" with the bulk of the pack (FRA still a runaway).

But sweet Goddess, it is booooring. Hundreds of years with nothing to do but hit end turn .. end turn .. end turn .. *shudder*. Needs more spice

What are the good city locations? The places look so crappy (I like to optimize cities).

 

[Veshta]

Started out with 2 cities on the baltic coast, both with rivers+food, capital in place and a happiness farm above the honey SW of Krakow .. awfully close to Hungary, but he is a docile beast and Silver+Gold is huge when forges are applied, good spot to hem in Austria when they come into play.

Hard to truly optimize. I went for river locations as first priority (better coin/health) and food source as second priority as I expanded east. Overlap is unavoidable so don't worry about it.
Arm up in anticipation of the Lithuanian spawn (minimize cities in his area), knock him out and steal his stuff!, errr land ... I had Chivalry faster than I can with the English, gotta love river farms with manorilism/serfdom

 

[mathl33t]

I'm mostly enjoying this mod. I've won as the Arabs, Germans, and Dutch. I like the religion system because all of the religions provide different benefits: Orthodoxy is great for large empires, Catholicism for crusades, Protestantism for colonizing and research, Islam for making troops quickly. (I'm not sure why you would want to stay Catholic after the Reformation though.) I like the province system, but I have a couple of minor nitpicks: As the Germans, I conquered a city in the province of Lithuania, which is unstable, and the city name became Konigsberg. Konigsberg is very much a German city, and I don't think it should be unstable. Also, Franconia is a very small province. If you make the mistake, as I did, of moving your initial settlers as Germany, you won't control Franconia for your UHV. I just ended up making a non-optimally placed city, but really, if you control all the tiles of a province with your culture, it should count. But overall, I really like the province system.

There are a couple other annoyances/obstacles to enjoyment. One of them is Atlantic access. I just don't understand it. I played the Portuguese one time and didn't get Atlantic access. My empire included my starting cities, all the Cordoban cities, some of north Africa, the Canary Islands, and the Azores. This game was before my game as the Dutch, and I hadn't seen Atlantic access before, so I may have just missed the little black dot, which is a very non-obvious way to show Atlantic access. I also missed out on Atlantic access as the Germans, even though I conquered France, and hence had cities on the coast of the Atlantic. Afterwards, I played the Dutch to figure out how to make colonies.

Another thing I don't get is what does "richest" mean? How is it determined who gets to buy out a crusade? How does the third Byzantine UHV work? I ought to have just finished a Byzantine game, but I didn't get the third UHV, even though I had quadruple anyone else's GNP and had a couple thousand gold. As for the crusades, Venice seems to require a bit of luck to get their second UHV. Before they get super rich, the crusades need to fail, so that they can buy out a crusade to sack Constantinople. In my attempts at Venice, either someone succeeded in taking Jerusalem, or the Spanish bought out the crusades to fight Cordoba. I haven't gotten past the second UHV yet, but if I did, how would Venice get Atlantic Access?

 

[Ambreville]

Did you use your fishing boats to "activate" Atlantic access improvements? Back when I played this mod, you had to do this...

 

[ezzlar]

Just press the button that shows all the resources and then you will see the atlantic access resource.

 

[Daffy]

I'm mostly enjoying this mod. I've won as the Arabs, Germans, and Dutch. I like the religion system because all of the religions provide different benefits: Orthodoxy is great for large empires, Catholicism for crusades, Protestantism for colonizing and research, Islam for making troops quickly. (I'm not sure why you would want to stay Catholic after the Reformation though.) I like the province system, but I have a couple of minor nitpicks: As the Germans, I conquered a city in the province of Lithuania, which is unstable, and the city name became Konigsberg. Konigsberg is very much a German city, and I don't think it should be unstable. Also, Franconia is a very small province. If you make the mistake, as I did, of moving your initial settlers as Germany, you won't control Franconia for your UHV. I just ended up making a non-optimally placed city, but really, if you control all the tiles of a province with your culture, it should count. But overall, I really like the province system.

There are a couple other annoyances/obstacles to enjoyment. One of them is Atlantic access. I just don't understand it. I played the Portuguese one time and didn't get Atlantic access. My empire included my starting cities, all the Cordoban cities, some of north Africa, the Canary Islands, and the Azores. This game was before my game as the Dutch, and I hadn't seen Atlantic access before, so I may have just missed the little black dot, which is a very non-obvious way to show Atlantic access. I also missed out on Atlantic access as the Germans, even though I conquered France, and hence had cities on the coast of the Atlantic. Afterwards, I played the Dutch to figure out how to make colonies.

Another thing I don't get is what does "richest" mean? How is it determined who gets to buy out a crusade? How does the third Byzantine UHV work? I ought to have just finished a Byzantine game, but I didn't get the third UHV, even though I had quadruple anyone else's GNP and had a couple thousand gold. As for the crusades, Venice seems to require a bit of luck to get their second UHV. Before they get super rich, the crusades need to fail, so that they can buy out a crusade to sack Constantinople. In my attempts at Venice, either someone succeeded in taking Jerusalem, or the Spanish bought out the crusades to fight Cordoba. I haven't gotten past the second UHV yet, but if I did, how would Venice get Atlantic Access?

If you don't have a city in a province that you have to control, you have to have all tiles of that province within your cultural borders(easily done with Franconia)

Atlantic Access usually first shows up when you research Astronomy (I think) Norse are an exception

I've won with Venice in Beta 9 without taking over a crusade, you just have to put an early emphasis on building some troops, especially siege weapons(constantinople only had 2 Guisarmiers in the city, but that nice 225% def bonus)
You get atlantic access from Tanger in north africa (admitted it's not soo visible but once you know about it you tend to notice it more)

 

[mathl33t]

Just press the button that shows all the resources and then you will see the atlantic access resource.

Wow, that's a really good idea.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Wessel V1]

I don't think everyone notices that. Even players like me (I play with maximum interface, tile yields etc.) have a hard time to spot them. Don't know how to improve it though.

By the way, this is the 5000th post of the thread, that's quite a lot.