civmademepoor
Chieftain
If y'all like this, the correct spelling is halberdier.
RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread
- Thread starter st.lucifer
- Start date
If y'all like this, the correct spelling is halberdier.
sedna17
Emperor
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- Mar 12, 2008
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In my opinion, we have space for 3 pole-arm units in our mod. I agree that "Swiss Pike" is unwieldy, and somewhat breaks the Civ convention of calling early units by weapon.
1) Early/cheap spear. The spear was a common default weapon for medieval infantry because it was cheap, and required little iron. I'm going to change the default appearance of these guys to look less like Greek hoplites, drop the metal requirement altogether, and make them a weak/cheap unit. I think the best name for this unit is "Spear".
2) High-to-late-medieval spear/pike. Charlemange mod gives us a nice medieval model with a big kite shield and a spear or half-pike. I'm not sure what to call him. Currently I think he's in as "Pike", but he could be "Heavy Spear" (though the whole "heavy" designator is boring) or "Half-pike". Alternatively, I could easily reskin his weapon to make it a "Guisarme" or some other slightly exotic polearm.
3) Early renaissance pike. This is the pike of the "pike and shot" era, popularized by the Swiss. The unit art pictured here is carrying a pike, although they did often carry halberds in addition for close combat. The German unique unit, the landsknecht, is depicted with a halberd, so that weapon "slot" is sort of already full.
So here are a couple suggestions:
Spear -> Half-pike -> Pike (no-reskinning work)
Spear -> Guisarme -> Pike (1 reskin)
Spear -> Pike -> Halberd (1? reskin)
Pitchfork -> Spear -> Pike (this definitely makes the early spear into more of a peasant levy, but art is available for the pitchfork-warrior already).
1) Early/cheap spear. The spear was a common default weapon for medieval infantry because it was cheap, and required little iron. I'm going to change the default appearance of these guys to look less like Greek hoplites, drop the metal requirement altogether, and make them a weak/cheap unit. I think the best name for this unit is "Spear".
2) High-to-late-medieval spear/pike. Charlemange mod gives us a nice medieval model with a big kite shield and a spear or half-pike. I'm not sure what to call him. Currently I think he's in as "Pike", but he could be "Heavy Spear" (though the whole "heavy" designator is boring) or "Half-pike". Alternatively, I could easily reskin his weapon to make it a "Guisarme" or some other slightly exotic polearm.
3) Early renaissance pike. This is the pike of the "pike and shot" era, popularized by the Swiss. The unit art pictured here is carrying a pike, although they did often carry halberds in addition for close combat. The German unique unit, the landsknecht, is depicted with a halberd, so that weapon "slot" is sort of already full.
So here are a couple suggestions:
Spear -> Half-pike -> Pike (no-reskinning work)
Spear -> Guisarme -> Pike (1 reskin)
Spear -> Pike -> Halberd (1? reskin)
Pitchfork -> Spear -> Pike (this definitely makes the early spear into more of a peasant levy, but art is available for the pitchfork-warrior already).
The download for RFC Europe, you mean? Or this map? Where did you find that link?
If you mean the latest test version of this mod, see RFC Europe Files thread, post 2. for the Jan.3 download.
downloaded the jan 15th one and the colony files and overwrote them onto my RaFoC mod , went to upload it and all i get is a load of XML faults while it loads before it CTD
sedna17
Emperor
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- Mar 12, 2008
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- 1,091
downloaded the jan 15th one and the colony files and overwrote them onto my RaFoC mod , went to upload it and all i get is a load of XML faults while it loads before it CTD
Yes, if you would read the posted information there you would see that the colony/wonder files I included are not finished work. If you just added in the colonies files with the wonders you'll get lots of XML errors. Generally people should only use complete test versions, or they will get errors.
Edit: Also, this really isn't a add-on mod to RFC. It is a stand-alone mod that borrows much of its framework from RFC. You should NOT attempt to install it by merging it into RFC.
jessiecat
Divine Monarch
I think sedna's advising you not to put them anywhere just yet because they are not finished. Right?
If you can wait for the next test version the new wonders and colonies will be included AFAIK.
Kalimakhus
Emperor
- Joined
- May 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,249
First of all I am so pleased to see this project thriving. I've been part of the early discussions of an RFC for Europe and I appreciate the massive load of work you guys have accomplished as I have a good idea how difficult it is to get this job done.
I've downloaded the latest test version and started a game with the Franks. So far (around 1000AD), I've encountered no problems.
I haven't yet gone through the different threads so I am not sure if this was brought around before. For a third UHV for the franks I am thinking of initiating a Crusade to the holyland and capturing Jerusalem. I think the early crusaders were mainly franks. The player shouldn't continue controling the city but instead a Jerusalem Kingdom spawns.
Now I have a question regarding the UHV of controlling France's historic lands. Do lands controlled by vassals count toward this objective? If not do you think they should? I mean up to renaissance times kings of France held nominal sovereignty over most of what is now France through vassals including the king of England, and the Duke of Burgundy who were in many instances more powerful and owned larger areas of land.
I've downloaded the latest test version and started a game with the Franks. So far (around 1000AD), I've encountered no problems.
I haven't yet gone through the different threads so I am not sure if this was brought around before. For a third UHV for the franks I am thinking of initiating a Crusade to the holyland and capturing Jerusalem. I think the early crusaders were mainly franks. The player shouldn't continue controling the city but instead a Jerusalem Kingdom spawns.
Now I have a question regarding the UHV of controlling France's historic lands. Do lands controlled by vassals count toward this objective? If not do you think they should? I mean up to renaissance times kings of France held nominal sovereignty over most of what is now France through vassals including the king of England, and the Duke of Burgundy who were in many instances more powerful and owned larger areas of land.
st.lucifer
King
Good to have you back.
As far as the crusades idea goes - it would be good to have at least one civ have a crusading UHV, and France is as good as any.
As for the crusaders being Franks, that's sort of true and sort of confused. The Arabs referred to all of the crusaders as Franj, meaning Franks; while a majority of the crusaders (I assume we're talking about the first crusade) were Frankish, many of those would have come from modern-day Germany, and there were sizeable contingents from England and some of the stronger German states.
Still, this is a pretty good UHV suggestion, especially if we're trying to spread out the French UHVs.
On vassalage: while France controlled much of its modern territory through vassalage, there aren't really many competitors for it. If this were like EU3, that would be a necessary hedge, but the only civs likely to hold French territory are independents, Burgundy, and possibly Spain, none of which are likely to vassalize. I'd rather see France get there by conquest.
civmademepoor
Chieftain
Pursuant to one of my more recent posts on the topic of control of the modern French territory, Genoa will almost certainly hold a slice of modern France (sans Corsica) in this mod, namely Nice.
Kalimakhus
Emperor
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- May 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,249
@st.lucifer
In my game once I researched Vassalage Burgundy asked to become my vassal. I accepted the offer oblivious to the fact that I will need their cities for my UHV. Spain has go a city in the south but this is not really a problem as I can declare on them and take the city.
It may have something to do with playing on the lowest difficulty. I mean it is not quite likely to have Burgundy make such an offer unless their UHVs don't need waging war. I think if they accomplish their first UHV in the early expansion phase they would seek the protection of a powerful neighbor (also to keep him from attacking them himself).
Anyway, I agree with you that it is better be through conquest. It makes things more exciting.
In my game once I researched Vassalage Burgundy asked to become my vassal. I accepted the offer oblivious to the fact that I will need their cities for my UHV. Spain has go a city in the south but this is not really a problem as I can declare on them and take the city.
It may have something to do with playing on the lowest difficulty. I mean it is not quite likely to have Burgundy make such an offer unless their UHVs don't need waging war. I think if they accomplish their first UHV in the early expansion phase they would seek the protection of a powerful neighbor (also to keep him from attacking them himself).
Anyway, I agree with you that it is better be through conquest. It makes things more exciting.
BurnEmDown
Emperor
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- Jul 18, 2008
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- 1,718
I also got an offer from Burgundy to be my vassal playing as France, it happened pretty early too, as Vassalage was the first tech I researched (unless I'm forgetting some pre-req tech for it, maybe Manorism?). It happened due to barbarians being very close to their only city and it was guarded with only one archer, they did survive tho so I had to stop the game after I realized I need to conquer them later.
On the subject of Jerusalem, I think a Civ spawning after a Christian (or maybe only Catholic?) Civ captures Jerusalem is a good Idea, it could then be possible to code the new Civ as a Vassal for the civ that initally captured Jerusalem, and the master civ will also get some bonus (troops, gold, happiness, something to do with religion or pope). That civ should ofc get instant bonus relations to other Catholic civs, to show how many Catholic countries helped the crusades.
On the subject of Jerusalem, I think a Civ spawning after a Christian (or maybe only Catholic?) Civ captures Jerusalem is a good Idea, it could then be possible to code the new Civ as a Vassal for the civ that initally captured Jerusalem, and the master civ will also get some bonus (troops, gold, happiness, something to do with religion or pope). That civ should ofc get instant bonus relations to other Catholic civs, to show how many Catholic countries helped the crusades.
Corm
Prince
...there were lots of Scots Crusaders too! Plenty in the 5th Crusade for example (12somethingAD?)...not that im saying add Scotland or anything, nope not saying that, Alan fitz Walter High Stewart of Scotland being responsible for the Knights Templars in Scotland isnt all that important and neither is Scotland, no, honest...
Anyway that gives you a good option for the English UHV surely? To be part of a crusade say to capture at least Antioch or Acre or something by a certain date.
Anyway that gives you a good option for the English UHV surely? To be part of a crusade say to capture at least Antioch or Acre or something by a certain date.
civmademepoor
Chieftain
Two more cities for the French map:
Antwerp=Anvers
Coblenz=Coblence.
Antwerp=Anvers
Coblenz=Coblence.
micbic
Optimistic Pessimist
Wessel V1
Emperor
I've just won my very first RFCEurope game. Some final observations:
- Rome should't become someone's vassal.
- Venice likes to give techs to their vassals (usually Genoa and Rome), who also become very advanced.
- Cordoba and Spain seem to be in balance. Neither of them rules Iberia, so they stay fairly small. The result is that Spain has a low tech rate (they are two levels* behind)
- Overall tech rates are too high. In 1500 AD, the advanced civs like Moscow, England, Poland, Germany can research techs like SM, Liberalism and Biology, if they haven't already. Frankia and Cordoba are a level behind.
- I think the problem of the all solid civs is the foreign stability. Even with more enemies than friends (east Europe is orthodox, west Europe is catholic), my stability rating was +40.
- Moscow is, defended by it's master, a powerhouse. 18 cities, 459000 square km land, a solid tech rate, huge cities (over 50 million population). Probably the AI is going to win it's designed UHV goals, as barbarians weren't a real threat, although I haven't given them a single unit.
- Portugal is also rather weak. 2 close cities in Portugal, 1 colony. Vassalized to Spain very early, destimulating it's own development.
That's it I think. Now, should I start playing a really weak civ like Austria, or Venice, to see it's potential?
Some final observations:- Rome should't become someone's vassal.
- Venice likes to give techs to their vassals (usually Genoa and Rome), who also become very advanced.
- Cordoba and Spain seem to be in balance. Neither of them rules Iberia, so they stay fairly small. The result is that Spain has a low tech rate (they are two levels* behind)
- Overall tech rates are too high. In 1500 AD, the advanced civs like Moscow, England, Poland, Germany can research techs like SM, Liberalism and Biology, if they haven't already. Frankia and Cordoba are a level behind.
- I think the problem of the all solid civs is the foreign stability. Even with more enemies than friends (east Europe is orthodox, west Europe is catholic), my stability rating was +40.
- Moscow is, defended by it's master, a powerhouse. 18 cities, 459000 square km land, a solid tech rate, huge cities (over 50 million population). Probably the AI is going to win it's designed UHV goals, as barbarians weren't a real threat, although I haven't given them a single unit.
- Portugal is also rather weak. 2 close cities in Portugal, 1 colony. Vassalized to Spain very early, destimulating it's own development.
That's it I think. Now, should I start playing a really weak civ like Austria, or Venice, to see it's potential?
jessiecat
Divine Monarch
I've just won my very first RFCEurope game.
- Rome should't become someone's vassal.
- Venice likes to give techs to their vassals (usually Genoa and Rome), who also become very advanced.
- Cordoba and Spain seem to be in balance. Neither of them rules Iberia, so they stay fairly small. The result is that Spain has a low tech rate (they are two levels* behind)
- Overall tech rates are too high. In 1500 AD, the advanced civs like Moscow, England, Poland, Germany can research techs like SM, Liberalism and Biology, if they haven't already. Frankia and Cordoba are a level behind.
- I think the problem of the all solid civs is the foreign stability. Even with more enemies than friends (east Europe is orthodox, west Europe is catholic), my stability rating was +40.
- Moscow is, defended by it's master, a powerhouse. 18 cities, 459000 square km land, a solid tech rate, huge cities (over 50 million population). Probably the AI is going to win it's designed UHV goals, as barbarians weren't a real threat, although I haven't given them a single unit.
- Portugal is also rather weak. 2 close cities in Portugal, 1 colony. Vassalized to Spain very early, destimulating it's own development.
That's it I think. Now, should I start playing a really weak civ like Austria, or Venice, to see it's potential?
I agree. Rome shouldn't be anyone's vassal or be conquered so easily. In my game as Venice it offered to be my vassal soon after I conquered Firenze. Later it was conquered by indys then again by me. In the meantime it somehow conquered Tunis??? That can't be right.
In my recent games the tech leaders and top of the scoreboard have been Poland or Moscow. Portugal is always too weak. Its spawn area should take in the whole west coast of Iberia as I suggested in the small fixes thread.
You think Venice is a weak civ.? Its always one of the tech leaders. In my present game as Venice I easily had the first two UHV conditions before 1400 and have been messing about for 200 years without a 3rd. UHV goal. As you can see I control Italy, the Dalmatian coast and part of Greece. I even gave away Athens, Rhodes and Cyprus to gain peace. And I've got 3 vassals too. Nothing to do but tech or try for a score win until 1800 but I'll probably just abandon this as boring.
Wessel V1
Emperor
Sorry, I actually meant that Venice is the most powerful civ. Now I've seen them resisting the mighty Bulgarian force, I want to know their true power.
Hangly Man
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2006
- Messages
- 247
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but Byzantium is an absolute pushover. Playing Bulgaria I took Constantinople (defended by only one archer) and all three of their Greek cities with just my starting units. Thessalonica and Athens didn't have any garrison whatsoever.
Ajidica
High Quality Person
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 22,482
Thats due most likely to them getting decimated by the plauge and not having enough units in constantinople. Constantinople should start with the Theodesian Walls, built around 365 and later expanded and resrengthened under Anastasius.
An idea to prevent stuff like this from occuring where the AI looses their capital easily, could they get a 'Palace Guard' type unit that is a relativly strong, immobile unit that guards whatever city is the capital?
An idea to prevent stuff like this from occuring where the AI looses their capital easily, could they get a 'Palace Guard' type unit that is a relativly strong, immobile unit that guards whatever city is the capital?
micbic
Optimistic Pessimist
Another proposal: Since the Bulgarians start their invasion with mounted UU (Konnik?), may we give in the most important Byzantine cities one or two spearmen?
