Nah, I'm not really objecting, just pointing out that it worked this way and not the other way. My thinking, though, is that having them in 1500 might be harder than in 1150? It depends on the Byzantines I suppose. I don't know, I haven't played that far.
RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread
- Thread starter st.lucifer
- Start date
Wessel V1
Emperor
jessiecat
Divine Monarch
That's a known bug. I've had it too. Something carried over from RFC I expect.
A couple of questions though.
1. If you're playing as Cordoba how can you be building a Great Bombard? Is Turkey your vassal and you've built the Topkapi Palace?
2. Why does your screenshot look so different? OK, you're showing all resources. I find that distracting. But why has your info bar on the top-right got the turn number and minutes played? Also the type-face is totally different. Check my screenshots (post 351). They don't have any of that.
Wessel V1
Emperor
That's a known bug. I've had it too. Something carried over from RFC I expect.
A couple of questions though.
1. If you're playing as Cordoba how can you be building a Great Bombard? Is Turkey your vassal and you've built the Topkapi Palace?
2. Why does your screenshot look so different? OK, you're showing all resources. I find that distracting. But why has your info bar on the top-right got the turn number and minutes played? Also the type-face is totally different. Check my screenshots (post 351). They don't have any of that.
1. True. In fact, I only noticed it after I took the screenshot, it's absolutely fenomenal. That wonder rocks!
2. I forgot to turn that off, sorry for that. Sometimes all that info is distracting, though it can be very useful, because it works as a guide for economic development. It even improved my understanding of stability. And undeveloped tiles are easier to find, as they produce far less than they should. The interface is different because I installed blue marble. That also affects my farms and desert. Time display can be turned on in the options menu -> other.
jessiecat
Divine Monarch
Thanks for that. I've always left settings on default. Blue marble looks good. It's compatible
with our mod, I take it? No problems with our terrain etc.? Maybe we should use it.
st.lucifer
King
This seems like a reasonable suggestion, although I've never managed to figure out how to reveal only part of the map to one civ without adding/subtracting units through WB. That's conceivably an option, and there's probably a better way of doing it.
What would you suggest revealing? Certainly the Mediterranean; N. Africa, Gaul, and Britain?
We're trying to cut down on the independents, although I believe we still have to re-add Syracuse.
What do people think about the reconquest of Italy suggestion? Is there a way to increase the likelihood that those cities declare independence upon instability?
While this idea makes sense from a historical perspective, it doesn't work for gameplay. Most units will be built in a few core cities; if they're immune to flipping, that defeats the whole purpose. It's also an easy exploit for a human player.
We'd have no trouble filling the eastern side of the map with Byzantine cities, but chose to reduce the count to those we felt were most important. (We did leave out Trebizond, which belongs on the important list.) While the Byzantine empire should effectively be a superpower at the beginning of the game, it's difficult to reflect both the empire's power and its weaknesses. The more cities the Byzantines hold, the less likely the Bulgarians, Arabs, and Ottomans are to attack them, and the better prepared they become to ward off such attacks. When combined with their strong UP and relative tech advancement, it's difficult to justify strengthening the Byzantine position in any way. While your point about the Theodosian walls is certainly true, giving Byzantine cities that increased defense bonus from the beginning of the game onwards would make early conquest of Byzantine cities by other civs impossible.
The Persian idea is a good one, although the Arabs spawn rather quickly. It does make sense to have barbarian invasions periodically appear in that area.
Agreed. We'll look at it.
Thanks for the suggestions.
3Miro
Deity
There is an option on the top right corner that reads something like: reveal map tiles. IMO a lot of civs should start with a lot of revealed territory, it would help the AI.
Ajidica
High Quality Person
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 22,482
Thanks for the response. A way to show the reconquest would be just to give the Byzantines some of the cities and have a bunch of Goths/Lombards spawn. The reconquest of North Africa and parts of Spain isnt needed.
You might want to shift the places of knights and heavy cavalry. Currently they come way to close together (knights with next tech). It may just be me, but I view the classical 'knight' as comming around with the 3rd Crusade at earliest while the 'Heavy Cavalry' seems to represent the Carolingian and early normans.
I realize you dont want to make byzantium a superpower (technicly at this time they ruled all of the Balkans and most of Illyria), maybe some independant or 'native' slav cities could be place there. They would be at peace with the Bulgars.
Finaly, a problem that might be occuring is that since byzantium is relativly powerful, the Arabs dont attack as often (I realize the AI in RFC is more aggressive due to Warmaps) and if they are forced to attack, they might get slaughter due to the few number of cities they have. (I have not yet seen them attack egypt so they only have the levant and maybe an outlying city)Perhaps you could implement 2 features that are in Primordial Stews Rise and Fall of the ROman EMpire mod. The first are the 'homeland fortresses'. In RFRE they add some bonus's and make the city have an obsene defense bonus (around +700%). The defensive bonus should be removed but this way the small civs that in realitly had alot of land or are wanted to stay competative can have a chance. The other part is that 'relative war code' that he created. I dont remember the specifics (all of his stuff is done in python and I have only the barest understanding of python) but for a given civ it looks at a set area (of enemy territory) and determins the relative power in that area. If it is below a given percent IIRC, it removes a counter from a timer. The timer can be set to any number and if the timer hits zero, the nation declaers war. This may only work for RFRE because the only playable nation is the Romans who are on the reciving end of this code. Just and idea.
You might want to shift the places of knights and heavy cavalry. Currently they come way to close together (knights with next tech). It may just be me, but I view the classical 'knight' as comming around with the 3rd Crusade at earliest while the 'Heavy Cavalry' seems to represent the Carolingian and early normans.
I realize you dont want to make byzantium a superpower (technicly at this time they ruled all of the Balkans and most of Illyria), maybe some independant or 'native' slav cities could be place there. They would be at peace with the Bulgars.
Finaly, a problem that might be occuring is that since byzantium is relativly powerful, the Arabs dont attack as often (I realize the AI in RFC is more aggressive due to Warmaps) and if they are forced to attack, they might get slaughter due to the few number of cities they have. (I have not yet seen them attack egypt so they only have the levant and maybe an outlying city)Perhaps you could implement 2 features that are in Primordial Stews Rise and Fall of the ROman EMpire mod. The first are the 'homeland fortresses'. In RFRE they add some bonus's and make the city have an obsene defense bonus (around +700%). The defensive bonus should be removed but this way the small civs that in realitly had alot of land or are wanted to stay competative can have a chance. The other part is that 'relative war code' that he created. I dont remember the specifics (all of his stuff is done in python and I have only the barest understanding of python) but for a given civ it looks at a set area (of enemy territory) and determins the relative power in that area. If it is below a given percent IIRC, it removes a counter from a timer. The timer can be set to any number and if the timer hits zero, the nation declaers war. This may only work for RFRE because the only playable nation is the Romans who are on the reciving end of this code. Just and idea.
TheDukeOfParma
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2009
- Messages
- 1
The files attached are all to the same Franks game between Turns 290 and 300. I can't tell you which because the computer crashed to desktop and when I went to reload it with any of these saves I found 2 problems:
1. They all crashed to desktop upon loading
2. The autosave for turn 300 happened prior to 6pm while the ones for 292 and 296 took place before 6pm on the same day (don't know if that's relevant at all...)
Just letting you guys know in the hopes you find something useful and if you can debug any of the saves, let me know. Thanks.
1. They all crashed to desktop upon loading
2. The autosave for turn 300 happened prior to 6pm while the ones for 292 and 296 took place before 6pm on the same day (don't know if that's relevant at all...)
Just letting you guys know in the hopes you find something useful and if you can debug any of the saves, let me know. Thanks.
Wessel V1
Emperor
Some new observations:
- Road movement is 2 in the entire game. On a map like Europe, that's too low (as there's not much sea around), so I suggest increasing road movement to 3 with the discovery of Professional Army.
- Not that important, but on city conquest, the pop-up says: The Poland has conquered .....
- Venezia might be a bit overpowered. They are always tech leader, even having only one city. The Kievan Rus and Poland are also quite strong.
- Just a small question, but why is gold trading only enabled after Free Market? World map trading is nearly impossible, as getting truly fair tech trades. Banking, or possibly Guilds would be better IMO.
- Byzantium starts without an expansion civic.
- There are many crashes, but I doubt these are caused by programming failures. Especially moving to another side of the map by clicking on the minimap causes some crashes, but that might be related to lack of memory as well.
- The Turks can't expand. In both games they turtled having 3 cities, and any other city founded is razed by Mongols / barbarians. This makes the last Hungarian UHV too easy. Neither does Austria, although that might be because Hungary was controlled by me.
-The third might be too easy, the first could be too hard. In 1350 AD, Arabia, Poland, Kievan Rus and Moscow all have somewhere around 7 to 9 percent of the world map. That's as much as Austria, Hungary core (see attachment) and Greece. Don't know if I'm going to make it... because it requires lots of war. Those grassland plains really beg to be cottaged, and it really hurts to find out that I have to build farms (that give +1 production), to get enough production to build an army. Any help to win is appreciated of course.
- Please replace Cyrus by another leader, doesn't matter his name. Bulgaria is very likely to conquer any barbarian or independent city in Russia, leading to their collapse (overexpansion). I'd rather see Moscow having his attitudes, creating a truly strong Russia. (EDIT) Cyrus is also responsible for a Persian Seoul, to clear things up.
- Road movement is 2 in the entire game. On a map like Europe, that's too low (as there's not much sea around), so I suggest increasing road movement to 3 with the discovery of Professional Army.
- Not that important, but on city conquest, the pop-up says: The Poland has conquered .....
- Venezia might be a bit overpowered. They are always tech leader, even having only one city. The Kievan Rus and Poland are also quite strong.
- Just a small question, but why is gold trading only enabled after Free Market? World map trading is nearly impossible, as getting truly fair tech trades. Banking, or possibly Guilds would be better IMO.
- Byzantium starts without an expansion civic.
- There are many crashes, but I doubt these are caused by programming failures. Especially moving to another side of the map by clicking on the minimap causes some crashes, but that might be related to lack of memory as well.
- The Turks can't expand. In both games they turtled having 3 cities, and any other city founded is razed by Mongols / barbarians. This makes the last Hungarian UHV too easy. Neither does Austria, although that might be because Hungary was controlled by me.
-The third might be too easy, the first could be too hard. In 1350 AD, Arabia, Poland, Kievan Rus and Moscow all have somewhere around 7 to 9 percent of the world map. That's as much as Austria, Hungary core (see attachment) and Greece. Don't know if I'm going to make it... because it requires lots of war. Those grassland plains really beg to be cottaged, and it really hurts to find out that I have to build farms (that give +1 production), to get enough production to build an army. Any help to win is appreciated of course.
- Please replace Cyrus by another leader, doesn't matter his name. Bulgaria is very likely to conquer any barbarian or independent city in Russia, leading to their collapse (overexpansion). I'd rather see Moscow having his attitudes, creating a truly strong Russia. (EDIT) Cyrus is also responsible for a Persian Seoul, to clear things up.
3Miro
Deity
I tried the first save on the Jan 3 version and it did load just fine (took some time but loaded). Is it possible that your computer doesn't have enough resources to handle the game, after all RFCE is more demanding than any other mod (just because of the sheer size of it).
3Miro
Deity
- I agree with the road movement. 2 is not enough.
- Gold trade should be available earlier, probably even before Banking.
- Byzantium probably needs an Expansion civic to boost their stability in the beginning.
- Turkey should be more aggressive.
- Bulgaria should not go all the way to Moscow in clearing the Indies, but should be strong. Check the territory controlled by Simeon. Leader personalities are on the to-do list, they require a lot of XML coding, any volunteers. We have to work specifically on the "new" leaders making sure that "personalities" match the real leader's achievements.
st.lucifer
King
We've got two techs that increase worker speed. We could easily repurpose one of those to road movement, which makes sense - and given the size of the map (and the fact that most of it's land), we might even consider going up to 4, as we don't have railroads or anything like them.
We might also consider a civ2-style bonus for river movement, although I imagine that would be complicated to implement.
Agreed on gold trade. Guilds?
Turkey will likely be more aggressive if we start them with a larger army. They're also more likely to be aggressive after we return stability to its previous level, which will result in the Byzantines and Arabs losing more cities to revolt, making them less intimidating to the AI.
Wessel V1
Emperor
I agree that Bulgaria has to be strong. The save I provided has a weaker Bulgaria than I had in an older save; that Bulgaria controls the Balkans, all the way to the Adriatic coast, parts of a collapsed Kiev and some cities north of Russia. By far the highest AI score, until they collapsed.
Instead of increasing road movement to 4, why not having late units that have 2 movement, 3 for cavalry? As they don't have to carry have iron defense, they could move much faster than for example pikemen can. Also, defending cities with 4 road movement is quite easy, weakening the effect of AI wars, which were common in Europe.
micbic
Optimistic Pessimist
Movement:Instead of road movement suddenly increasing it to 4, we could get it at 2 at start, and increase it according to techs till 5. If we are to implement river movement, a solution could be tripling the movement at BOTH left-right tiles adjacent to the river.
Two issues from French game:
1) (small fix) When it comes to researching Monasticism, it is shown as
Monasticsm in top of screen.
2) Most important than the first, regarding mercenaries. In my French game, when Burgundy collapsed (yes you have every right to mock me that I didn't wipe them out till 950 AD
) I noticed that the mercenaries which the Burgundians had rented to deter themselves from joining my mighty empire
remained at revolted-indy cities, and NOT as mercenaries, but as common soldiers!!! My suggestion: Remove all mercenaries when an empire falls in civil war.
Nevertheless, I am doing kinda well, all I want is a war against Genoans (Nizza), another against Spanish (in case they built Pamplona), and 2-3 wonders in Paris. Helpful too is that I have no state religion (trade with Cordoba-Arab).
Saved game attached.
Two issues from French game:
1) (small fix) When it comes to researching Monasticism, it is shown as
Monasticsm in top of screen.
2) Most important than the first, regarding mercenaries. In my French game, when Burgundy collapsed (yes you have every right to mock me that I didn't wipe them out till 950 AD
) I noticed that the mercenaries which the Burgundians had rented to deter themselves from joining my mighty empire remained at revolted-indy cities, and NOT as mercenaries, but as common soldiers!!! My suggestion: Remove all mercenaries when an empire falls in civil war.Nevertheless, I am doing kinda well, all I want is a war against Genoans (Nizza), another against Spanish (in case they built Pamplona), and 2-3 wonders in Paris. Helpful too is that I have no state religion (trade with Cordoba-Arab).
Saved game attached.
This mod starts after the barbarian invasions in the Roman Empire, but the barbarians didn't razed all the cities. Wouldn't it be better to place a couple of Roman Cities on the map as Indipendents that would flip to upcoming nations similar to the French, German and Spain spawn in RFC. This way, new civs would start with a couple of cities and less underground code penalties could be given to old civs.
As for the Dutch. They were a nation that declared independence. They didn't found new cities. I think they should start with a city (or cities) that has been build by the Independents, Germans, Burgundians or Spain. Again, they don't have to start from scratch and need less new civ bonuses. I think the same should be done for Venezia and Genoa.
This could be the starting situation with all the civs that we don't have as independents. Maybe Londinium should be added.
where's the download for this ?
jessiecat
Divine Monarch
The download for RFC Europe, you mean? Or this map? Where did you find that link?
If you mean the latest test version of this mod, see RFC Europe Files thread, post 2. for the Jan.3 download.
micbic
Optimistic Pessimist
Managed a Dutch start! Seems the problem is solved. Got the first UHV, going for the second (Apprenticeship is the only choice) Some observations though:
1) Worldbuildering by spawn, there are two cities that could spawn to me: Charleroi and Munster, with the first one most obvious. Charleroi remained French, but Munster flips!!! (the opposite seems kinda more sensible)
2) The Dutch spawn date is said to be 1580, I spawned at 1540. What is right?
3) For a purely unknown reason, when barbarians capture the Kievan cities, the major part of the reconquista is taken over by...Bulgaria!!! Something must be done because Simeon seems to have fallen in love with that area (maybe reduce Bulgarian stability for keeping cities in that area, or, keeping it simple, make barbarians razing every city they capture)
4) Swedish had a very low score when I met them (150
). Bug??? Mod-related or what? Or are they so uncivilized (no starting techs???).
5) Another bug, which is a strange screen occuring when opening the trade techs window in foreign advisor (see screenshot)
1) Worldbuildering by spawn, there are two cities that could spawn to me: Charleroi and Munster, with the first one most obvious. Charleroi remained French, but Munster flips!!! (the opposite seems kinda more sensible)
2) The Dutch spawn date is said to be 1580, I spawned at 1540. What is right?
3) For a purely unknown reason, when barbarians capture the Kievan cities, the major part of the reconquista is taken over by...Bulgaria!!! Something must be done because Simeon seems to have fallen in love with that area (maybe reduce Bulgarian stability for keeping cities in that area, or, keeping it simple, make barbarians razing every city they capture)
4) Swedish had a very low score when I met them (150
). Bug??? Mod-related or what? Or are they so uncivilized (no starting techs???).5) Another bug, which is a strange screen occuring when opening the trade techs window in foreign advisor (see screenshot)
