RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

Thanks for the advice 3Miro. I almost did everything you mentioned except slowing Venice down. I was going to though Frankia declared on me and I had to deal with them so my privateers were sort of tide up. I light bulbed several techs. I also got some techs from Arabia (who was muslim and friendly), a couple from England as well though mainly out of path to SM. These techs helped me keep my army somewhat up to date otherwise Lewis would have crushed me with his knights.

BTW nice screen-shot. It is the first time I see a shot of civ running on Linux.
 
I have been running Civ under Linux fro several months now, the only problem I had was I still needed Windows to be able to compile the .dll file. I used to dual-boot, but now I am using Virtual Box so I can run Windows from within Linux.

In general the graphics of Civ under Linux (with wine) are a bit slower, but the time between turns is actually the same, so it makes no practical difference. I have completed RFC USA games under Linux, it is bearable enough.

For RFCE, we will have to change Venecia's UP, it gives them too much scientific advantage when it is supposed to give them a lot of cash. We may do it so that Venice starts with Merchant Republic and Electorate (as opposed to Republic), which will decrease the bonus, but we need to change the stability penalty that would come with it.
 
The Cordoba UHV was pretty easy for me. I used the UU to take out spain very early, and then just teched up peacfully (make sure you farm every empty tile near cordoba to reach the 1st UHV, and because farms are overbalanced) When Portugal spawned it didn't last 5 turns to my deadly cavalry, just make sure you don't declare too soon or you'll units will defect. After that I have french influence on the Pyrenes (the mountains between Iberia and France) So I built a huge army (their army was even bigger!!!) and took Marseille, Boredaux, and a city between them. If you decide to declare war on anyone other than Spain or Portugal then don't make my mistake and sign many DPs first!!! Especially with your future enemy's neighbors.
The race to SM was very easy, I managed to research it before anyone else had Arabic Knowlage, which reminds me of a small fix I'd wanted to report - Arabic Knowlage makes you go to the late middle ages right on the start.
 
I have been running Civ under Linux fro several months now, the only problem I had was I still needed Windows to be able to compile the .dll file. I used to dual-boot, but now I am using Virtual Box so I can run Windows from within Linux.

In general the graphics of Civ under Linux (with wine) are a bit slower, but the time between turns is actually the same, so it makes no practical difference. I have completed RFC USA games under Linux, it is bearable enough.

For RFCE, we will have to change Venecia's UP, it gives them too much scientific advantage when it is supposed to give them a lot of cash. We may do it so that Venice starts with Merchant Republic and Electorate (as opposed to Republic), which will decrease the bonus, but we need to change the stability penalty that would come with it.

Actually I'm playing as Venice at the moment and I agree its science can be pretty powerful. However I think we've got another broken UHV here. I'm supposed to control the Dalmatian coast and have a city in mainland Greece, Crete and Cyprus in 1500 (which I do. See screenshots) but in 1502 it says "not yet" then in 1504 it says "No". I've included saved games from 1500 and 1504 for you to look at.
BTW For the 3rd. UHV requirement I need 8 luxury resources. Which ones count as luxuries? There's nothing in the civilopedia on resources which says anything about that. Actually they are listed in the wiki but maybe they should be listed in the civilopedia for ingame reference.
 
Hi every1
I've played the Feb 13th version of your modmod as Spain and its great, the crusades worked really well, most of the crusade votes were between Spain and Bulgaria so I won them all :D. But when I captured the required city I didn't get a bonus, was I supposed 2? Arabia had just collapsed, would that stop it?

Spains last two UHVs arn't working, i dont know if they just havn't been implemented yet. The colonies on a whole seem to be working well, thx 2 Iberias amazing production ive snagged them all so far :). The assembly line building also seems to have problems, i've researched the tech but can't build it :confused:?
Hope some of this is useful.
 

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Well, it's not really a handicap, most civs have a 255% penalty. There are some exceptions, like Genoa, because the AI usually builds no more than 3 or 4 cities, and has a slow research rate. What I've noticed is that Burgundy has some very heavy modifiers, what might explain why they are doing so badly.

About the savegame: it looks that you've beelined SM. Usually that's not bad, but I think you've skipped some important techs. Monument building is important because of the irrigation. Around 80% of Iberia is plains, and should have farms. Combined with Serfdom (Free Peasantry doesn't have much value IMO), they guarantee powerful cities. Merchant Republic is also something I would recommend. In my last game, playing Hungary, I tried to find the best civics combination for research. I had built the Palacio de Pena, so it wouldn't cost me any time to try it. Results were that Merchant Republic is far more powerful than Guilds. Manorialism is IMO so weak that it doesn't compensate the lost trade route.
Valencia could be improved a lot. It doesn't work all food tiles, which means that it could have grown much larger. I see that you've worked the production tiles before, but to compensate them, you have to build farms all around. Most city locations are chosen well, though Iruna is to small to be significant and Bambaluna would be better if it would be SE.
Some improvements don't remove forests. Windmills were better than mines, because they give food and money and production, and mines only give 2 production. However, windmills remove forests, mines don't. So I build mines only on forested tiles, and windmills only on tiles without trees. Same deal for watermills, a forested grassland rivertile should have a watermills (better than a lumber mill). That's my strategy though, it won't be the best. It might be useful to improve Toledo though, since it has no food to work the mines. Windmills are better in this situation.
Compared to RFC, the land-water ratio is very high, so workers are more important. It is very important to have some workers improving all tiles as much as possible. The starting workers really can't show the full potential.
Your city locations are OK, but you have too many. It would go too far to lure the barbarians to North Africa, but the city adds next to nothing. A city on the south coast near the resources would be better. I see that you have 16 cities, so building another one isn't a good idea. The research bar shows that SM costs more than 30,000 beakers. With 10 cities, it would have been much cheaper. The cities in France are big, but undeveloped, so they harm science rates.
The event log shows 6 anarchies. Every anarchie costs 3 points, so 6 anarchies costs an entire stability level. It seems that both anarchies in 1179 AD and in 1218 AD could have been combined. About your combinations, I'm not sure, 3Miro can probably explain this. Foreign relations are also low. Despite having another state religion, most civs aren't that upset when you meet them. I donate them 10 gold to get the +4, enough to make them Cautios or even (temporary) Pleased. They will sign Open Borders.
Another small trick is that some of the science producers could be transformed into wealth producers. I don't know why, but the science slider has more impact than the production science, so building wealth results in more research AND more money.
Arabia is willing to trade some techs. Tech trading is very important in the early game. Research cheap techs (3 turns to research), and sell them to rich civs, especially Frankia. Byzantium is also very happy to trade techs, so if possible, send out a scout and try to trade something. Trading resources may work too. Currently, you've 6 wine, and you only need one. The Vikings have 13 gold left, more than enough to buy something. The AI changes their gold/research rate very often, so while they sometimes have nothing to trade, the next turn they have lots of gold (Byzantium, Frankia). Trading maps is a good way to get new contacts, and some money.

I hope this helps. It's a quick observation, not a detailed strategy guide but it may work in general. I have to admit though that you just had some bad luck. Venice has more cities than they usually do, these cities in Russia seem to be very important. I've only seen Moscow collapsed once or twice, so it is certainly not common that Venice is that strong.

EDIT: Wasn't the mod supposed to end in 1800 AD? Nick's screenshot says that it ends in 1760 AD. That might explain why the Dutch start in 1540 AD, AFAIK they should start in 1580 AD. Possibly that's why the UHV's are messed up, the date is simply wrong.
 
For RFCE, we will have to change Venecia's UP, it gives them too much scientific advantage when it is supposed to give them a lot of cash. We may do it so that Venice starts with Merchant Republic and Electorate (as opposed to Republic), which will decrease the bonus, but we need to change the stability penalty that would come with it.

I fear that won't help much. Together with Merchant Republic and 80% science, Venice gets 25% x 80% = 20% more research. I personally find Electorate more powerful than Republic, because of the culture and the espionage. Maybe the 25% coins should be changed into 25% gold.

What also may help them is that Mud can't even be passed by units such as spies and merchants. That makes Venice (the city) almost immortal, since they are also very powerful on the seas. The whole Adriatic coast can be defended by one boat, since the pass is only one tile wide.
 
The Franks' UHV should be working, it is possible that the Kiev and Moscow bugs in Feb 13 interfere with the Franks, or maybe there is something wrong with Burgundy.

I don't think so. They were defeated because I captured all of their cities:cool:. I installed the feb 14th version and I could load the game again, but the UHV didn't work again.
 
I don't think so. They were defeated because I captured all of their cities:cool:. I installed the feb 14th version and I could load the game again, but the UHV didn't work again.

Do you have a save right before the Victory is supposed to register (one in the 1490's).

For the Venetian UHV, lux resources are those that generally give happiness: Furs, Wine, Tea, Coffee, Cotton, Spices. They are at the bottom of Victory.py (RFCEurope\Assets\Python). In general I think getting 8 such resources might be impossible for Venice, we might have to rethink this one.
 
Do you have a save right before the Victory is supposed to register (one in the 1490's).

For the Venetian UHV, lux resources are those that generally give happiness: Furs, Wine, Tea, Coffee, Cotton, Spices. They are at the bottom of Victory.py (RFCEurope\Assets\Python). In general I think getting 8 such resources might be impossible for Venice, we might have to rethink this one.

OK. Can you check my saved Venice game (post 744). The first UHV doesn't seem to be working. If you can fix it I'll go for colonies and 8 lux resources just to see if that's working.
 
OK. Can you check my saved Venice game (post 744). The first UHV doesn't seem to be working. If you can fix it I'll go for colonies and 8 lux resources just to see if that's working.

It is not going to be until much later today. I have work to do, I don't get payed for working on RFCE and every now and then I get hungry:sad:. I will look at it, it looks like a mismatch between the map and the exact location of the Dalmatian coast and mainland Greece.

I will try to get a new version today, but I don't promise I will.
 
@Wessel V1

Thanks for looking into the save and for the guidance. I will take your advice into consideration when I play Cordoba once again. Some of your remarks were on things I couldn't help them. Some cities I just inherited from Spain and I didn't want to raze them and then waste time building settlers and starting the cities from scratch so I just kept them though not really in good locations. Relations with mainly Catholic nations was harmed a lot because of the Crusades. Each time they go to war against Arabia they ask for my help which I wouldn't give because Arabia was my most important trade partner throughout the game. I still admit that I could done much better with deplomacy in general but this is actually my weak point as a civ player. My in save civics don't reflect the ones I used throughout the game. I changed some when I went to war against Frankia. I also changed some trying to see why my stability was harmed by civics. So a couple of anarchies were not called for in the first place. Other anarchies would have been better clamped together as you mentioned.
 
Played a game as Portugal. A couple of thoughts:

1) Portuguese cities should start with a building that gives culture, perhaps give them Drama and a theater. My first city, Faro, was quickly eaten up by Cordoban Seville. I'm able to keep playing with just Lisbon and Porto, but keeping cities from flipping on the western side of the Guadiano should be a given, especially for the first 10-20 turns. I did notice that culture flip didn't stop my UHV, so hooray!
2) The Knight of St. John gets obsoleted too quickly, and I would often prefer to build the Knight and then upgrade it to a Foot Knight to get formation and shock.
3) There ought to be crusade objectives in Spain like in Anatolia and Jerusalem.
4) Cordoba isn't doing it's part to spread Islam. 300 years after flipping Faro, it was still a Catholic city.
5) In general, Spain and Cordoba need to be in a celebrity deathmatch.
 
It is not going to be until much later today. I have work to do, I don't get payed for working on RFCE and every now and then I get hungry:sad:. I will look at it, it looks like a mismatch between the map and the exact location of the Dalmatian coast and mainland Greece.

I will try to get a new version today, but I don't promise I will.

I know you're busy and we can't afford to pay you. Or feed you either.:lol:

Seriously though, you will be interested in this. I've played that Venice game on to 1646, getting the 2nd. UHV on the way. I have now built 3 colonies and have started a fourth. But if you thought getting 8 luxury resources would be hard, its not. In fact, with colonies its way too easy. I now have 4 spices, 4 sugar, 4 wine, 6 coffee, 2 slaves, 2 gems, 2 marble and one dye. A grand total of 25 luxury resources. If I complete 3 more colonies I should end up with 43. Not bad for a UHV requirement of 8, eh?:D

BTW My next goal will be to find suitable screen art for each colonial project. OK?
 
Beware of the Polish though. They might steal your victory, and 43 luxuries won't prevent that :)
 
Finding screen art for colonies would be great Jessiecat, thanks. You can provide me with images and I'll re-size/convert them appropriately.
 
I know you're busy and we can't afford to pay you. Or feed you either.:lol:

Seriously though, you will be interested in this. I've played that Venice game on to 1646, getting the 2nd. UHV on the way. I have now built 3 colonies and have started a fourth. But if you thought getting 8 luxury resources would be hard, its not. In fact, with colonies its way too easy. I now have 4 spices, 4 sugar, 4 wine, 6 coffee, 2 slaves, 2 gems, 2 marble and one dye. A grand total of 25 luxury resources. If I complete 3 more colonies I should end up with 43. Not bad for a UHV requirement of 8, eh?:D

BTW My next goal will be to find suitable screen art for each colonial project. OK?

Yet I guess it work OK then, I did not think Venice would be able to build colonies, they did not have any in the real world. However, in the hands of the human it is OK, so the challenge for Venice implies extending the trade power beyond the Mediterranean.
 
Found the Venetian "bug". It was not really a bug, just an issue. The code works well with defining areas in terms of rectangles. The Dalmatian coast is horrible to describe in terms of rectangles, the way I had it originally I had 3 rectangles that actually included Laibach. Now I have the area in 4 rectangles, lets hope it works.

I will post a quick one file patch.
 
Some more thoughts, primarily on Portugal:

1) 2 of the UHV conditions aren't working, the control more gold than Spain in 1600 and the build three colonial projects goal.
2) How are we going to know if we have Atlantic Access? Will it be a resource?
3) Why does stone make some colonial projects build faster? And there's a severe paucity of stone on the map, making colonies for England too easy, IMHO.
4) Since Portugal still doesn't have a UP, here are some ideas:
-The Power of Madeira: worked sea tiles give +1 culture. (Also solves some of the pressure coming from Andalusia).
-The Power of Tordesillas: 25% production bonus for colonial projects.
5) The feitoria seems a little weak to me given all of our other trade and gold boosters.

Some general comments:
1) I think Hudson Bay should give timber in place of tobacco.
2) Sugar should have a much higher value, and perhaps we can make Arab Medicine a requirement for building a sugar plantation? The Muslims had a rudimentary but effective method for cane farming that was later improved upon by our colonizing empires.
3) Any thoughts on making whole colonies tradeable (if that's even possible). E.g. instead of capitulating, I'll give you Brazil.
4) Troyes is Metz when taken by the Germans, should it be Metz all around?

Finally, is there a relatively easy way I can update the civilopedia?
 
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