RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

The reason I brought up failing Crusades, was that there are tons of faith points floating around, but no detractors other than giving the Pope the finger.

Saints, wonders and buildings all add to the total .. until the 3rd or 4th Crusade you might as well not bother as FRA/ESP will snag them 100% of the time, later ones are usually bought out by Venice or Genoa.

Surely it is reasonable that if succeeding provides a happiness/faith bonus the reverse is also true. If nothing else, it might just let others in on the action if faith totals are fairly even across the major powers.

Another thing that is a little ridiculous is that once someone takes Jerusalem, the Pope spams crusades to aid Portugal/Spain against the evil Moors .. and by spam I mean 5-8 over the course of the game. Just how much fail should Rome allow before rethinking its position?

On an unrelated note: Why is Calabria (southern most Italian province) unstable for Norse? The Normans took everything south of Rome more or less when they arrived around 1000AD so should be 'OK' stability like Sicily ..
Stone from the vast Russian expanse is easily doable but not only do you get the Moscow flip but half the Keshiks beeline for you which means Kiev survives and comes out of the middle ages like a freight train on steroids :D
 
Surely it is reasonable that if succeeding provides a happiness/faith bonus the reverse is also true. If nothing else, it might just let others in on the action if faith totals are fairly even across the major powers.

Another thing that is a little ridiculous is that once someone takes Jerusalem, the Pope spams crusades to aid Portugal/Spain against the evil Moors .. and by spam I mean 5-8 over the course of the game. Just how much fail should Rome allow before rethinking its position?

Loss of faith for failing a Crusade is something interesting, thus is you fail one Crusade, you will be less likely to get another. I will consider it. Loss of happiness is strange though, I don't think Jerusalem provides happiness anyway, so there is no reason to take it away.

Defensive Crusades against the Moors have absolutely nothing to do with the Offensive Crusades for Jerusalem. The Pope calls both in a very different manner independently of each other. It is irrelevant if the Spanish fail to win so long as the war keeps on going, if the Spanish and Portuguese go for peace, then the Pope will not call additional Defensive Crusades.
 
Another bug? Played Genoa, and had 11 open borders in 1640, but the UHV did not trigger. I'm sure you must be getting really tired of hearing about these.
 

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Getting -5 faith for not wanting to participate in a Crusade on first denial but not subsequent (that I have seen), shouldn't that penalty be applied every time?
Defensive Crusades ...
Up until a few minutes ago I would have called 'hogwash!' as they always seem to happen after Jerusalem has fallen .. but Isabella just got the Crusade proper and a defensive one the turn after prior to Jerusalem sack.

Does defensive crusades apply to all Catholic fighting non-Christians? Have seen quite a few that France gets against England if they are late to switch and even some German against Poland if they are godless heathens.
 
Getting -5 faith for not wanting to participate in a Crusade on first denial but not subsequent (that I have seen), shouldn't that penalty be applied every time?

Up until a few minutes ago I would have called 'hogwash!' as they always seem to happen after Jerusalem has fallen .. but Isabella just got the Crusade proper and a defensive one the turn after prior to Jerusalem sack.

Does defensive crusades apply to all Catholic fighting non-Christians? Have seen quite a few that France gets against England if they are late to switch and even some German against Poland if they are godless heathens.

Basically for all Catholics against all heathens if they have a city in war maps
 
I haven't played this mod since beta 5, so I'm glad to see a lot of improvement :goodjob:

I won two games; one as Hungary, one as the Arabs. I think there's some kind of bug with resetting the UHV winner; I tried to start up several games each after I won both of those games, and as soon as Hungary or the Arabs would spawn, those civs would win automatically. It wouldn't stop until I just reinstalled the mod.

Although I would like to see a playable Berber civ (maybe with a UP of +2:food:, +1:commerce: for desert tiles, to fill up the Atlas mountains?), I really like how the Hafsid's spawn is executed, since you have the option of letting them go or not. I like the menu, but it's not immediately obvious what the outcome will be based on the text given. It would be nice if it were clearer. Also, I think it would be convenient and interesting to put a "create a vassal" type option on the menu. Would be nice if they were playable, but it's not a huge loss if they aren't.

I noticed that vassals don't count as "controlling" a territory. Is that intentional?

It looks like the economics are balanced much better; I haven't been getting the massive cash flows I used to get. It's still a little easy to keep the tech slider up around 100%, but it's about right.

I like the idea of having the Atlantic access points spawn based on techs. I also noticed that astronomy supposedly reveals north and south america access. Are there plans to make the ones on the map more specific? If that is the plan, I think it would be fun and more historical in some senses to add an east asia access near Aqaba.

It looks like the Ottomans are underpowered during the late game, mostly due to lots of indie cities with large armies that put up a pretty good fight. This generally implies that Bulgaria will be more powerful than it should be in the late game, and Hungary's UHV3 isn't much of a challenge at this point. Not to mention that I didn't get to see the effects of the Hungarian UB :(.I'd recommend extending the flip zone to some extent in Anatolia.

The Austrians also seem underpowered. I haven't seen them with any more than four or five cities. But I usually play on easy, so maybe that's why :)

Also, most of the civs I've tried playing with have broken UHVs...not sure what happened there tbh.

I like the addition of Lithuania. I haven't played them but their UHVs look interesting, and they fill up a lot of dead space.

Kudos on territories, I think that's become the standard lately. Can they be colorized also, like in SoI?
 
not sure if someone has mentioned this but the uhv for the Arabs is triggering way too early. It says I accomplished it but it's only the 700s and I haven't even completed the criteria :confused:

Saved game attached

PS: that isn't the turn that it triggered, just the first turn I noticed it
 

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Reposting from Beta 9 thread because I don't know which one is correct for more general feedback...
Okay, finally installed RFC Europe and played as Poland, so some thoughts about this, and mod as whole point by point:

  1. Poland lack resources, seriously it obvious that you are still placing them, for example where is wheat? Not a single in whole core territory when one UHV is "granary of Europe" and the fact that wheat export was primary source of wealth in Poland.
  2. There also should be salt in Kraków cross (Wieliczka salt mines, active as mine from XIII century), and perhaps some cattle in Great Poland, and some sheep in Podhale (under Tatry mountains) region. Placement of animal resources is mostly dictated by balance as they where raised everywhere.
  3. Honey resource it's also absent despite the fact that drinking mead was somewhat a staple alcoholic beverage in pre partition Commonwealth.
  4. Perhaps new resource of amber instead of place-holder gems? (on Baltic coast)
Well that's all about Poland in mod now something about units:

  1. Archery line makes me want to scream. Longbow should be English UU, archer and crossbow are bit to weak and useful only in defending cities. Arbalest should be last in line and most powerful. So perhaps something like archer - crossbowman - arbalest spaced bit more in tech tree, with archer (S4, +50% city def) and crossbow (as arbalest now) stronger, and arbalest raised to str8/9 (+50% vs heavy inf and cav, or perhaps +25% vs havy inf and cav? or some combination). Hmm, but then knight should gain +1 str...
  2. ...Or Archer as it now, then crossbow as arbalest it's now, and finally S9 Arbalest with +25% vs heavy cav and inf? (but no hills or city def bonus) Of course spaced more in tech tree, because archery units get obsolete too fast, there is no need for 4 units, 3 foot archer units should be enough. Of course there are many other options, but something needed to be done with archery line.
  3. Axe is bit superfluous, sword should gain +25% vs polearm as longsword. So Axeman should go away. And sword available earlier.
  4. Grenadier, I don't know why but this unit always irritated me, they shouldn't get bonus vs line infantry because as of 18c. they basically were line inf, frankly I think that they are unnecessary.
  5. There is too big gap in heavy cav between knight and cuirassier, perhaps place some unit here?
  6. Maceman, rename unit to heavy footman, or men-at-arms.
  7. Perhaps mounted crossbowman as unit ( possible later upgrade to mounted cranequinier)? Something like earlier dragoon?
  8. Heavy inf line also obsolete somewhat to fast and end to quickly, after all Spain used rodelero in 16 and even 17c, the same with Austrian Roundshiers (I think...)
Well I think that's all suggestions that I have, I hope that this is useful feedback to you, and mod is awesome BTW, thanks for effort!
 
Is there some way to prevent Arabia from adopting the heathen Orthodoxy as their religion?

Feel kind of sad on the Pope's behalf when he doesn't get the opportunity to send his zealous minions east to smack the unbelievers around :D
 
Noooooooooo! Orthodox Arabia is one of Bulgaria's best trade partners along with Orthodox Cordoba and Orthodox Vikings. :D
 
So after two more games, I have some further thoughts about units. My main problem is that often they obsolete to quickly or some types aren't used at all (longbow vs arquebus for example). I don't know how much help this will be to you but there are my propositions for changes, mainly more spacing between units in tech tree, and KISS principle.
Heavy inf line - Obsoletes to fast, little to weak, my proposition here is: Swordsman (s6) - Longswordsman (s8) - halberdier (s10), all units for this line have +10% city attack and +25% vs polearm. No axeman, sword available from start (no tech needed), longsword about tech later than it's now, halberd about time of pike. There isn't any need for grenadier, cannon or field arty do better job at his functions.
Polearm units line - Spearman (s5) - Guisarme (s7) - Pike (s10), all units from this line have +25% vs light cav and +75% vs heavy cav, spear requires no tech. Tech placement is ok as it's now for guisarme and pike.
Archery line - As already said before also obsoletes to fast, and longbow makes me cry foul, make it a English UU... So something like archer (s4) - crossbowman (s6) - arbalest (s8), archer +50% city def, crossbow and arbalest +50% vs heavy cav and inf, no city or hills def bonus for last two. Archer requires no tech, Crossbow about tech later than now, and arbalest about tech later than current maceman.
Heavy cav line - with those changes it need some slight buff: lancer (s8) - armoured lancer (s11) - knight (s14) - cuirassier (s17) - some unit name here (s20). Mainly filling the gap between knight and current cuirassier with some unit. Tech placement is more or less ok as now.
Light cav line - main problem is huge jump from mounted sergeant to pistoleer, s5 to s12? Perhaps something like : skirmisher (s3) - mounted sergeant (s6) - some light cav unit (s9) - pistoleer (s12) - hussar (s15). Mounted sergeant about tech later than now, some unit halfway between it and pistoleer, slight upgrade to hussar. A little better chances for withdrawal for all units in line +5-10%.
Gunpowder line - Arquebus is simply to weak with longbow as it's now, with my propositioned changes its also need some rebalancing. So arquebusier (s8/9) - musketman (s12) -line inf (s18). Still cheap, and lacking counter but maybe players start using arquebus now.
Artillery (siege) line is mostly okay as for now.
I was also thinking about mounted crossbow unit (upgradable to mounted arbalest?), akin to earlier dragoon.
Huh, longer than suspected but I hope that some of this rambling will be useful to authors of mod.
 
Noooooooooo! Orthodox Arabia is one of Bulgaria's best trade partners along with Orthodox Cordoba and Orthodox Vikings. :D

:hammer2: Why don't you do what other RFC mods do? Just have each religion start with their "historic" religion, so that they don't need to convert. And then increase x religion spread factor wherever they are. For example spread Islam to Arabia; and spread Catholicism to the Vikings. IMO there should be an event, where Pope Missionaries spawn near the Viking border to convert their cities, but either way it should be that there is greater religion spreading, so you don't having things like a Orthodox Iberia/Cordoba which doesn't make any sense at all.
 
Burgundy UHV not triggering and other UHV starting with pass/fail on turn 1 are known bugs. Already fixed for the next version.

We can do some tweaks on the Units, but a complete overhaul is probably not going to happen. Military is very hard to balance and military overhaul would totally change the game.

For now, the longbowman was nerfed. Other units can be adjusted.

I found a random hang bug, so I am working on that one. Working with those kind of bug is a nightmare and incredibly time consuming. Sorry for not delivering Beta 10 last weekend.
 
:hammer2: Why don't you do what other RFC mods do?
Never seen an orthodox Cordoba, must be after respawn as that religion is sometimes present in northern Africa. They already start with a missionary per settler so it is very uncommon.

Orthodox Arabia on the other hand is quite common (1:3 or so) and must have to do with them either sacking a city on the first turn or getting the '-1 turns' at spawn so when religion choice comes up they naturally go with orthodoxy due to flip cities.

Ottomans were hardwired into Islam by having it selected as state religion on spawn, and they still sometimes change at some point, albeit very, very rare.

@Miro: Hang bug? Think I ran into that a bunch of times,
- all occurrences happened on auto-save turns if I remember correctly.
- reload from previous auto-save 'solves' it.
To me, with no knowledge of anything, it sounds/feels like it has to do with the randomized spawning of resources.
 
Never seen an orthodox Cordoba, must be after respawn as that religion is sometimes present in northern Africa. They already start with a missionary per settler so it is very uncommon.
Well they didn't quite convert on their own initiative. ;)

Venice decided to declare war on me so I got open borders and Cordoba turned pleased towards me eventually. And they were willing to convert despite Othodoxy spreading only in size 2 Tanja! :crazyeye:
 
Well they didn't quite convert on their own initiative. ;)

Venice decided to declare war on me so I got open borders and Cordoba turned pleased towards me eventually. And they were willing to convert despite Othodoxy spreading only in size 2 Tanja! :crazyeye:

I think something needs to be done about:
A) Some civilizations willingness to convert; of course some civilizations should be higher than others (especially from Catholicism --> Lutherism)
B) Religion spread factor to certain regions. For example in some regions like Spain Orthodoxy should hardly/not spread at all, while in the Balkans provinces, their should be a high spread rate (as well as Anatolia of course).
 
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