RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

Machine tools allow chopping of dense forests, but with the exception of Germany/Austria and Russia, dense forests aren't that prevalent. If I remember right it also isn't necessary for industrial age for Britain--maybe make it a prerequisite.
 
Something strange about the Academy. This building is listed in Pedia, requires no techs, however Great scholars cannot build one. What was the original intention about this building?
 
Serfdom hammer is being restored. Don't worry, you can all go back to oppressing the peasants in the next version.

Do people have opinions on Merchant Republic? I'm guessing a lot less people play late enough games for it to be a factor, but in my test sample games the AI *loves* to pick this civic.

Merchant Republic is something I use later in the game. If I've got a lot of land to build cottages on, I try to use free peasantry some time after the 1300 plagues, then when most of them are built up to towns, I switch to free labor/merchant republic.

But This only works once I've got enough health and happiness bonuses to build big cities. Also, even with free peasantry, it takes 20 turns to go from village to town. So its usually quite an investment.

HOWEVER: There is something very wrong with the AI specialist allocation. I keep finding when you leave automatic allocation on, the AI likes to put citizens in open grassland instead of a grassland with a village, or in a saltwater tile instead of growing a cottage. If you could figure out how to fix this, I'd really love to not have to micromanage to that extent.
 
I'm sure you're aware of this, but the 1st Portuguese UHV (More techs and gold than spain in 1600) does not work. In 1602 it just says "not yet," instead of "no" or "yes."

I can upload a save if you would like.
 
I'm sure you're aware of this, but the 1st Portuguese UHV (More techs and gold than spain in 1600) does not work. In 1602 it just says "not yet," instead of "no" or "yes."

I can upload a save if you would like.


Sometimes you have to wait a few turns longer. Than it will work. I had this with Poland.
 
There is something very wrong with the AI specialist allocation. I keep finding when you leave automatic allocation on, the AI likes to put citizens in open grassland instead of a grassland with a village, or in a saltwater tile instead of growing a cottage. If you could figure out how to fix this, I'd really love to not have to micromanage to that extent.[/QUOTE]

Ive actually noticed this too. Its extremely annoying to have your entire empire working ocean tiles instead of riverside cottages, especially when you have to go into the cities to fix all of them. Today one of my cities was working a 2:food: 2:commerce: water tile instead of a riverside hamlet with 3:commerce:. This really shouold be fixed but otherwise the game is really enjoyable
 
The Byzantines are really impossible to play, at least not without extreme frustration. Your stability goes to -100 after repeated reconquests of cities declaring independence. Alexandria, a size 8 city (could be much bigger if not for the severe penalties on the Byzantines), goes to size 1. All I can build is research, and as soon as it comes out of rebellion, it rebels again! The only thing preventing me from razing it is my culture and the fact that I can count on it to rebel next, instead of my other built-up cities. I've already given Sinope and Caesarea to the barb horse archers to raze so how much more can I lose?
 
The Byzantines are really impossible to play, at least not without extreme frustration. Your stability goes to -100 after repeated reconquests of cities declaring independence. Alexandria, a size 8 city (could be much bigger if not for the severe penalties on the Byzantines), goes to size 1. All I can build is research, and as soon as it comes out of rebellion, it rebels again! The only thing preventing me from razing it is my culture and the fact that I can count on it to rebel next, instead of my other built-up cities. I've already given Sinope and Caesarea to the barb horse archers to raze so how much more can I lose?

I've played Byzantines until I lost their 3rd UHV (I had 23k gold, I think genoa or Austria had 27k). You basically have to just give up on cities that our out of your core region entirely.
 
I got all 3 UHVs for Byzandum on Emperor and will post a report soon. I just gave up on non-core cities and amassed 26000 gold.
 
Bulgaria should be really easy: just capture Constantinople, which will make the Byzantines collapse, then mop up the rest. But the problem is with just 3 excess cities (Athens, Nicaea, Ephesus), my expansion becomes untenable. My cities kept on declaring independence and I had build and rebuild my Orthodox buildings (with 8 cities I had built 12 monasteries, 10 churches, 3 cathedrals and maybe 8 scriptoria just to get to 8/2/6). I was the most advanced and largest civ in the world from 800 onwards, and if the civil war mechanism had worked I would have collapsed 10 times already.
Also, in the High Middle Ages I had Electorate, Feudal Law, Merchant Republic, Vassalage, OR and Free Peasantry, yet my civics stability was -33 (which was my other main source of instability). I purposefully stayed away from Bureaucracy (because I now have 12 cities in 1200) and other high maintenance civics. What gives?

I suggest one or more of the following:
1. Decrease non-core tile occupation instability to 50% of what is current
2. Give older civs a lower economic penalty (i.e. because of inevitable stagnation compared to the new civs)
3. There should be "neutral" tiles for expansion so that you can get new cities running without penalty AND be able to grow your economy.
4. Cities declaring independence cause TEMPORARY, not permanent damage to expansion stability. (Makes sense if you want to lose some cities to avoid overexpanding again)
5. Make a reference table showing which civics work with each other.

Also, I noted that wonders don't give stability. Is this intentional
 
Stability: Fully agree with the previous post. RFC caps stability if too high or too low to prevent domino effect. I feel like city traded to independents makes -3 permanent hit, but recapture never adds anything.

In addition when AI plays Byzantines it leaves only one pathetic archer in the great capital. As Bulgarians I don't even settle my first city until I capture Tsarigrad only 3 turns after I start the game and this city becomes my capital. If you lucky and your first Konnik withdraws -- you can capture Constantinople without any causalities. Constantinople had been besieged many times—by Persians, Avars, Arabs (twice), Bulgars, Russians (three times) and Pechenegs. And all in vain. Something needs to be done to help AI who moves all the units out of the capital. Any Byzantine scenario I played since Civ2 had 0 Movement point Varangian Guard unit. Perhaps we could do the same. Ideally I would love to see 0 Movement point "Greek Fire" unit with active defense capability both on the soil and the sea. But strength 6 Imperial Guard unit also may do the job...
 
Overall experience: Won all 3 UHVs with Dan Quayle score after third try. First two times lost culture war with the Rome. Even with 3 Wonders (Ursula, Cluny, Marco Polo) plus 2 already there and building culture for 16 turns Rome still can beat you by a narrow margin if you don't build hippodrome right after the first worker (start hippodrome on turn 9). Which is nice and historical. Byzantines are very cool civ to play, nice choice of UHVs, UP, UB and UU. Barbs never let you get bored. After the barbs Rome is your number 2 enemy. Full scale spy wars. Rome builds gold and culture and kills your spies the moment they get inside Papal States. Even at this stage Rome really adds flavor to this mod. Now about the issues:

1) The biggest and the most annoying one: no , it's not the stability, it's the time you need to wait for the "Other civilizations" starting 1300 AD. At least 60-90 seconds. Maybe more, switched to Internet surfing while waiting for the game. Only the Black Death made the game to speed up a little bit. Guys, something needs to be done about this, all the features considered it's still unreasonably long.

2) Domino effect with Stability. You start at -10 permanent Expansion Stability and slide to -100 without any cure. My first try I was too naive trying to do the Justinian reconquest. Lost all my troops to rebels. This time I was trying at least to keep Iconium for the horse. Never kept forces inside the city, recaptured it maybe 10 times. Barbs razed it -- impossible even to defend.

3) Instant Protestant Europe. The very turn England discovered Printing Press ENTIRE Europe converted to Protestantism. Except the Rome and Genoa. Definitely needs to be tuned.

4) Bulgarians never get a chance to respawn. Barbs raze everything. Is it possible to prevent razing the capital?

5) Cavalry defensive bonuses (already has been addressed and resolution promised).

6) Venetians need to wait until Gunpowder while everyone sailing with Strength 3 vessels. So their UU requirements actually handicap them with Trirems for a very long time.

7) IMHO, too many Iron sources in the core of the Empire.

8) The sprite for Foot Knight mixed with the Warior's art. So sometimes you see a Warior but when you turn him to the left he becomes a Foot Knight.

9) Sprite for the Teutonic Knight is pink. Probably reskin was not saved...

10) Cannot build Academy.

11) Infirmary misses description in Pedia and has no prerequisite Techs. Not clear when one can build that building.

12) Strange bug about Tech trading for the gold. No one normally trades any Tech unless you offer 10 beakers for a beaker (which is fine), but when you pay with gold AI sells roughly 1.5 of his beaker for 1 gold (which is odd).

13) Possibly the civ's name is misspelled: "Byzandum"
 
3) Instant Protestant Europe. The very turn England discovered Printing Press ENTIRE Europe converted to Protestantism. Except the Rome and Genoa. Definitely needs to be tuned.

This is rare. I think each civ has a 50/50 chance to select one or the other. Most of the time I see approximately 50% of Europe switch to Protestantism.
 
Actually, the half of Protestant Europe seems always to be England, Germany, Poland and maybe Austria, and Sweden later on.
 
4) Bulgarians never get a chance to respawn. Barbs raze everything. Is it possible to prevent razing the capital?


In my games the respawned a few times. I think about 3-4 out of 5 times they collapsed.
 
I also noticed the obscene tech trading penalties on the Byzantines, its completely ridiculous when you have to trade 5 techs for one tech thats worth half of any one of the 5.
 
This happened to me as I was about to give up my (flawed) Bulgarian game (because I was having continuous faux collapses). I have a defensive pact with Portugal and England, and Genoa had declared war on me. Even though I had made peace with Genoa already, England and Portugal are still at war with Genoa. I had just declared war on Spain the turn before.
Frankia respawns.
Both Spain and Portugal declare war on Frankia. But Frankia vassalizes to England so England declares war on Spain and Portugal. Of course, being in a pact with Portugal means that I have to declare war on England.
So I'm at war with England (the master who's the aggressor), but I can open borders with Frankia (the vassal) AFTER England has already declared on me??:confused:


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In general, as I've said many times before, Rhye's economic stability system is flawed because of inability for continuous growth without new cities, which in turn general instability from expansion.
Can we do something about this in RFC E (which does not go to the modern age and thus economy should not count as much in stability, well, at least not until economics is discovered)?
For example, a wonder which decreases expansion instability by 50% would be welcome. The Escorial Palace helps but not enough.
 
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