RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

I wonder if something has been done about Byzantine instability. Recently I played once again for Byzantium and the stability has horrible. You can't go on offensive since as soon as you conquer a city it becomes independent one turn later.:(
This makes the game very unpleasant when you finally defeat the Bulgars and one turn later the new cities declare them self independent, in some cases you even lose your entire army.
 
As the Byzantines, I once tried declaring war on Rome, but they couldn't either. It think Catholic nations not being able to be at war with Rome is logical, but Orthodox/Protestant/Islamitic nations should be able to (Though perhaps all catholic nations should declare war to them if they do).
 
As the Byzantines, I once tried declaring war on Rome, but they couldn't either. It think Catholic nations not being able to be at war with Rome is logical, but Orthodox/Protestant/Islamitic nations should be able to (Though perhaps all catholic nations should declare war to them if they do).

Plenty of Catholic nations fought wars against the Papal States, for instance, the other Italian states.
 
Plenty of Catholic nations fought wars against the Papal States, for instance, the other Italian states.
That's not completely accurate...
it's true that there were several wars between Italian states, often including the Papal State.
However it was always for territories around the core, never for Rome itself: it would have been inconceivable for a small state to try to conquer the town.

Only big states, aspiring to the imperial title or global dominance did try to conquer Rome.
The Pope had the power to excommunicate the invader, thus allowing any other power legal right of war against the enemy of the Pope and allowing any pretender to try for a grab for prower. :)

This is what happened during the investiture controversy and war between the HRE and Pope.
Some extracts from Wikipedia:
In 1076 Gregory responded by excommunicating the king, removing him from the Church and deposing him as German king. This was the first time a king of his stature had been deposed since the 4th century.

<...snip...>

The German aristocracy was happy to hear of the king's deposition. They used the cover of religion as an excuse to continue the rebellion started at the First Battle of Langensalza in 1075, and for seizure of royal holdings. Aristocrats claimed local lordships over peasants and property, built forts, which had previously been outlawed, and built up localized fiefdoms to secure their autonomy from the empire.

But later on...

In 1081 Henry IV invaded Rome with the intent of forcibly removing Gregory VII and installing a more friendly pope. Gregory VII called on his allies the Normans in southern Italy, and they rescued him from the Germans in 1085. The Normans sacked Rome in the process, and when the citizens of Rome rose up against Gregory he was forced to flee south with the Normans. He died soon thereafter.

And this is only the beginning... on and off there have been a lot of wars between HRE and the papal states with different outcomes.
Lets remember the Sack of Rome in 1527.
The HRE was not the only one having open war against the Papal States and trying to conquer Rome.

Coming to RFCE I would say:
1. Papal States cannot collapse & independents cannot wage war against it

2. Any playable CIV can declare war against the Papal States but...
2.1 Before the schism, all Christian civs will automatically DoW against the attacker, after the schism, only the Catholics
2.2 Additional -5 relation will be added as well (not permanent) against the attacker
2.3 Before the schism, all towns with christianity will experience unhappiness.
2.4 After the Lutheran reform (printing press) the penalty defined at 2.2 is reduced to from -5 to -3

3 Vassals of the attacker, if Christian (before schism) or Catholic (after schism), will follow their master's decision if their relations are "friendly" else they'll split if relations are less than "friendly" (e.g. cautious).
3.1 The level of relation is evaluated after the -5 relations between them is allocated
3.2 The vassal will have the same penalties as the master (2.1 , 2.2 , 2.3) is will remain together with him after DoW on the Papal States. None of the penalties are allocated is the vassal will split from the master.
3.3 Christian/Catholic vassals of non-Christian/Catholic Civs follow the same rules as other vassals but with a temporary -10 relation penalty

These rules are necessary to allow civs to DoW on the papal states and reproduce the outrage in the Catholic powers about it.
It will possible help a few more religious wars in Europe to match history. :)

I also would like to change one of the HRE goals to reflect the war between the Emperor and the Pope, with the HRE aspiration of dominate the Italian peninsula.
 
I am back in the modding business. However, I am trying to figure out where to begin. If sedna17 or someone else that is more up to date can make a short todo list, I will get on with it right away.

For the Papal war: What would one have to gain from a war with the Pope, Rome and the +20 gold per turn. This will come at the expense of being at war with everyone and everything Catholic (and possibly Christian). Right now, it is not only that players cannot declare war on the Pope, Rome can never under any circumstances be conquered (unless you use the WB or there is a bug). In a similar manner the Pope cannot conquer cities, otherwise he will not be in the same footing with the other players.

Imagine you start with Genoa only to find the Pope already taking over all the spots in Italy and Mediterranean islands. We had some trouble with the Pope taking random indy and barb cities in Russia and Middle East and no one can do anything about it. Imagine trying to take one city from the Pope in Russia and then finding yourself at war with all the Catholics in the game.

Suppose an Orthodox or Islamic player takes Rome, then what? The Pope goes in an exile. Operates under the Islamic shadow. The Turks kept the Orthodox Patriarch after they took Constantinople, but at that time almost all of the Orthodox world was under their control (Russia was still very weak and not centralized), then the Patriarch was a representative of the conquered Christians and nothing more. Besides under the Orthodox decentralized model Russia doesn't need the Orthodox Patriarch anyway, while the Catholic players do need the Pope.

I think the current no Papal war scheme makes more sense.
 
I am back in the modding business. However, I am trying to figure out where to begin. If sedna17 or someone else that is more up to date can make a short todo list, I will get on with it right away.

Maybe someone else is more up-to-date than I. I've been busy.

The current status in the SVN has a bunch of changes. However, I thinned out the resources a bit. In the few test games I've had time to run, this has left some of the northern Europeans weak even late into the game. So I still need to run some more test cases and see if there is re-balancing to be done. I'd welcome some other opinion on the current state of balance (from you or others with the SVN version).

The biggest "difficult" piece of code I can think of right now is to make the AI sometimes chose to build Trading Companies. Currently the AI is building the colonies that don't require Trading Companies, but is clearly not putting weight on the fact that companies allow them to build other colonies. Thus, it leaves them un-built and the subsequent colonies don't get built either.

A second "AI" question is to make the AI more aggressive generally, and specifically to attack Jerusalem (or do something useful) when it is in charge of the crusade. The first part is sort of nebulous. Many people have posted reports of AI stacks just sitting around, not taking cities when they clearly could, that sort of thing. Unfortunately I'm not aware of a great saved-game example of this behavior (and in isolation, any one such occurrence may not be hard to justify).
 
I am back in the modding business. However, I am trying to figure out where to begin. If sedna17 or someone else that is more up to date can make a short todo list, I will get on with it right away.

One of the most important tasks is implementing the change of leaderheads by date and dated respawns corresponding to them for each civ, as outlined by micbic. The list isn't fully complete but most of it is ready to implement AFAIK. (see the Art and Flags thread, post 254).
 
Civ-wise, the one that needs most balancing is the Ottoman. It is the only civ atm we are creating alternative starting situations for.
 
Are we down to balancing now. I would think we would still need important features. Anyway, I will get to work on the AI, that will be strictly my area.

micbic: for the leaderheads, can you add them to the XML yourself. If you can add the leaderheads, it will be much easier for me to just add the code to change the leader at a specific time. Otherwise, changing and adding leaderheads takes time and it will be secondary on my list (after AI for colonies and Jerusalem).
 
Are we down to balancing now. I would think we would still need important features. Anyway, I will get to work on the AI, that will be strictly my area.

micbic: for the leaderheads, can you add them to the XML yourself. If you can add the leaderheads, it will be much easier for me to just add the code to change the leader at a specific time. Otherwise, changing and adding leaderheads takes time and it will be secondary on my list (after AI for colonies and Jerusalem).

That leaves the question of implementing respawns, esp. by date and re-location. ie. Cordoba to Morocco,
Arabs to Egypt, Byzantines to Greece, etc., which is tied in with leaderhead changes as well.
 
For the Papal war: What would one have to gain from a war with the Pope
It's a way to mod the historical war between HRE and Pope, and if conquering Rome in the list of UHV goals, then the player have a very strong incentive to go for it.
The wars and other problems will be temporary.

Rome can never under any circumstances be conquered (unless you use the WB or there is a bug).
It happened once to see the Papal State collapse and become independent.
At that point Rome was conquerable.
 
micbic: for the leaderheads, can you add them to the XML yourself. If you can add the leaderheads, it will be much easier for me to just add the code to change the leader at a specific time. Otherwise, changing and adding leaderheads takes time and it will be secondary on my list (after AI for colonies and Jerusalem).

Hey 3Miro,
Do already-existent in Vanilla BTS LHs (such as Charlemagne) need adding as well to the mod folder? Tnx.
 
The polland third victory didn't work for me. I was in 1735 still without a victory or fail.
I almost get a strange think in that game. I got 6 vassal :S

I saw in another a comp winning with bulgary :eek:
 
I would really like to play this but game crashes right away when trying to initialize the mod.
I have version alpha9c and installed the folder RFCEurope directly into the bts mods folder???
Where is the mistake???
Would be great if someone had a hint...

--------------------------------------

Bla bla...never mind.. didnt have latest bts version...fixing it now!
 
Are we down to balancing now. I would think we would still need important features. Anyway, I will get to work on the AI, that will be strictly my area.

Hey 3Miro. With your changes to the SVN version I still don't get the AI ever building a trading company. I ran several test games through quite late, and no trading company was ever built -- I even removed the tech requirements and lowered the costs to see if the AI would ever do it -- nothing.

I can't quite parse the line of code you added to figure out why, but I thought I'd let you know.
 
The polland third victory didn't work for me. I was in 1735 still without a victory or fail.
I almost get a strange think in that game. I got 6 vassal :S

I saw in another a comp winning with bulgary :eek:

Yeah, sometimes it is easy to get vassals. Not quite sure what's up with that. I'll have to check the 3rd Polish UHV... Found the Polish bug. It'll be fixed for the next release.
 
And when is the next release? i heard it was said beta will come out by christmas or something but lol... not criticizing or anything, just plain curious :)
 
And when is the next release? i heard it was said beta will come out by christmas or something but lol... not criticizing or anything, just plain curious :)

When it's done :)

Yeah, I didn't make things into a pretty package before Christmas and then things got busy. We have a bunch of stuff in the SVN right now and should really release something new soon... just a few things to clean up to get it playable...
 
I think momentum-wise (we seem to have lost some of it) it would be wise to release Alpha 10 soon. On my part, at least, I will try to spend as much hours as possible doing some job for it at the weekend (then I have two Physics exams throughout the week)
 
Back
Top Bottom