RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[dragodon64]

Dont get me wrong, its still a really good mod, i just have a few complaints, listing from most serious to not so serious:

1. Venice UHVs screwed up
2. Hungary too strong
3. Turkey always Orthodox
4. Genoa has a fetish for gold and is otherwise weak
5. Civs start with some civics but then lose them the next turn because they dont have the required techs
6. Poland too weak
7. France too weak
8. No incentive in game to conquer Suez (correct me if i'm wrong)
9. Plague too powerful.

I don't even remember what the Venetian UHV is, so...

I think 3 is the biggest problem by far. Perhaps one of Turkey's goals should be "extend Islamic rule throughout the balkans" or something similar, and their tendency towards Islam be shifted to make this likely. And if they don't already start with 3 Islamic missionaries, they should.

5 is a bug, it needs to be fixed, end of story.

I think France does fine, although Poland needs to be at least a little more advanced than it is. Genoa colonizes Corsica and Sardinia well enough, I'd just like to see it go beyond that every once in a while. I don't have too many complaints about Hungary, but I would like to see a stronger Austria, so one will lead to the other.

Like said above, the Suez should remain some path of rough desert and the black plague should be the only only truly devastating one. I agree with limiting cottage degradation to one level during plagues, but I don't understand plague mechanics, so I don't really know how possible a limit on population degradation is.

 

[onedreamer]

I finally gave a try to this mod. I must say I wasn't pleasantly impressed. These are the main issues I had:
I played Cordoba.

1- The game was incredibly a) easy b) void of any meaningful event and hence boring c) slow.
a) Nothing was ever even a nuisance during the game. Not the barbarians. Not the spanish who declared war and never attacked. Not achieving any of the UHV conditions. I won all UHVs without any real planning and in my first game, without even knowing the features.
b) It was just me and my few cities...
c) kind of a consequence of a and b... anyways at a certain time I found myself pressing the end turn button over and over and it took incredibly long to achieve the last condition (bound with time). There was nothing to threaten me. Another point is the many, many buildings which all give small improvements, or many techs with small improvements, and so on. This makes the game slow. Units take very little prod. points to build and buildings take very long, but these have very little impact so you don't feel any real achievement for building them.
2- I had to try hard not to be friends with Catholics, which otherwise would have loved to be my best friends. This includes the Papacy. Kind of screwed IMHO...
3- Arabia falls too easily because of crusades, and anyways the lack of a third Caliphate/civ (Ifriqyia & Siqilliyya) seems quite significant. Either this or a 2 Sicily Kingdom. I had already said this during the early development but there was concern that Italy would be too crowded. Well, it's not happening. South Italy and Tunisia / Tripolitania are sad deserts...
Like someone else mentioned, France is incredibly weak.


The goods: despite being too many with too little advanteges, I like all the new buildings and techs which give a great feel for the MA, as well as crusades, religion etc... all features that were added. But the slow and boring nature of the mod should be addressed IMHO in order for it to be more interesting.

 

[Wessel V1]

If you have a better idea, please present it. And with the 100% growth bonus it is only 20 turns, which IMO is bareable.

No, I agree that a cottage economy with +100% cottage growth is the way to go, except when playing Arabia and perhaps Cordoba (in general places with much more plains than grasslands). 20 Turns for the most time-consuming upgrade is doable, but also annoying. I certainly agree that the cottage economy is often the best option, but my point was that it has to be quite straightforward. For example, I want to be able to switch away from *the cottage booster civic* to *the +10% +10% civic*, but with the current plague, there is not time to do so.

 

[Wessel V1]

Isn't Byzantium a little easy now? Okay, I'm not even past 1000AD but my research and stability are a little higher than I'd expect. Probably I'll get problems if I continue my game but right now it seems that under the current patch Byzantium isn't the pure challenge it has been.

Screenshot attached. Note that my stability is STABLE (not shaky, indeed) and that my research is 90%, without corporations.

EDIT: 990 AD, >400 research and SOLID.
EDIT 2: and some time later, I'm the only solid civ on the map.

 

[AdrienIer]

Yes, but you haven't met the seljuks or the ottomans yet...

 

[Wessel V1]

I know, but the Seljuks weren't exactly terrifying, I easily hold them of as Arabia. As Byzantium it was a bit harder, made a little mistake when distributing Guisarmiers so I lost Sinope. Still solid though, and the pillaged land will quickly be reimproved. Sinope isn't such a wonderful city so I won't retake it ASAP. Currently, I focus on Alexandria which I lost by accident because one of my vassals started a Crusade and I wasn't prepared for that...

 

[kochman]

Isn't Byzantium a little easy now? Okay, I'm not even past 1000AD but my research and stability are a little higher than I'd expect. Probably I'll get problems if I continue my game but right now it seems that under the current patch Byzantium isn't the pure challenge it has been.

Screenshot attached. Note that my stability is STABLE (not shaky, indeed) and that my research is 90%, without corporations.

EDIT: 990 AD, >400 research and SOLID.
EDIT 2: and some time later, I'm the only solid civ on the map.

As adriener said, there is still hundreds of years to go!!! The Turks are a big problem, right in the heart of the empire!!! Causes massive stability problems.

 

[Wessel V1]

Indeed, there are many years to go, I'm not there yet! The thing is, in the older patches it was virtually impossible to be stable or have a decent economy going. Right now it is possible to run 100% research, make a nett profit and get a massive tech lead. Byzantium is not as powerful as Arabia in human hands, but certainly much stronger than most other civilizations. I'll continue this game tomorrow or perhaps the day after tomorrow, when I'll face the Mongols and the Turks. I'll see what happens now. Remember: I never said it is easy. I said it is easier compared to prior versions. I like the powerful Byzantium, but the more challenging Byzantium was also fun to play.

 

[kochman]

Byzantium is not as powerful as Arabia in human hands, but certainly much stronger than most other civilizations.

While this is true, Byzantine (called Romania) was pretty damn powerful compared to the other European powers of its time in all fairness. Its power steadily went down, but at that period, 900AD, they were the major European power.

As the Venetians, Bulgarians, Arabs and Turks start coming at Byzantine, it slowly lost its power over centuries...

 

[FakeShady]

Isn't Byzantium a little easy now? Okay, I'm not even past 1000AD but my research and stability are a little higher than I'd expect. Probably I'll get problems if I continue my game but right now it seems that under the current patch Byzantium isn't the pure challenge it has been.

LOL keep playing, keep playing i have played and tested Byzantium about 100 times over now xD and i can tell you, Byzantium is not easy in fact if you do not complete all the UHVs i can assure you with 99% confidence you will NOT win the game, unless of course, you use worldbuilder...

 

[Wessel V1]

No Turks yet, but these Keshiks are very sneaky! Look where they popped up!

Not solid anymore though, stability is now +17.

Question on the second UHV: am I allowed to leave Mus? I have really no incentive to capture it otherwise.

 

[micbic]

Why not just raze it?

 

[Wessel V1]

I fear that at one time I discover that my solid stability was just hybrid, and I fall to unstable. Oh well, I've found that I missed my second UHV now. Not such a big problem, I didn't want to quit playing in 1500 AD. The battle with the Turks however was quite devastating, I wasn't so well prepared and the plague just arrived when the Turks spawned. So, I lost some cities but the others were saved. Now I can only hope that they won't produce more units, because they start with quite many of them and they can produce at a much higher rate because of built-in modifiers.

Conclusion: Byzantium is, until 1300 AD, easier to play, there is even room for expansion, for example in Greece and in Turkey. Especially with corporations and well thought city building, it is not so hard. The Seljuks can be stopped with Guisarmiers, with proper promotion (I lacked barracks so it wasn't an option to attack them outside cities) even your economy there can be saved. The mongols can be stopped with Knights. Be prepared for the Turks however, if possible their stack must be destroyed before they found any cities. Without preparation, it may take a few centuries to recapture everything, because their production costs are so low. I bet it is possible to whipe them out eventually, but it may take some more time. Maybe I can collapse them with some espionage.

 

[Krschtschn]

May i suggest to let the Turks found Bursa and wait till they move too much military out of it? Razing the city with a few knights from constantinople destroys the civilization along with their whole army. You just have to take care of traitors till about 1320. The Third UHV can then be achieved with Medici or St. George (If you use the Hansa)

 

[Wessel V1]

I've already found the Bank of St. George a while ago, money won't be the problem. But I don't want to achieve the UHV now, I want to destroy Turkey! I hoped that I could find their capital undefended but for some reason the AI was smart enough to keep at least 2 Longbowmen in Bursa. My offensive army was exactly 3 Knights (lack of planning but also production facilities), so I had no chance to take it. Turkey isn't very stable though in the latest version, so if I get the chance to take Bursa and Nicea (by culture), Turkey will likely collapse. Hopefully my vassal (Hungary, quite strong because there is no Venice nor Bulgaria) can do a fine job in supporting my attack.

If I fail miserably and can't take my lost cities, then I'm going to play another game. The "search for solid" was something I enjoyed a lot, and next week I'll have some free days, so I'll try again.

 

[Larxon]

When I load the mod, my game stops responding, that may be a problem on my part though, since I am new at downloading mods.

 

[micbic]

Make sure you have updated BTS to 3.19

 

[Barak]

I have encountered a CTD playing as England in alpha 11.

Save attached:

England.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[merijn_v1]

I have encountered a CTD playing as England in alpha 11.

Save attached:

England.CivBeyondSwordSave

It could be this.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8987534&postcount=3225

 

[Barak]

It could be this.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8987534&postcount=3225

Thanks, I'll try that.