RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[merijn_v1]

7. Arab Colonies:
- The Arabs should be able to build the Malay trading post, or have some sort of unique trading post for themselves
- I also firmly believe that instead of having the coffee, and other resources dotting the edge of the map (which are supposed to represent the silk road), why not have it like the Europeans and have a colony which you can build but only by controling a key tile in the game which is for the silk road and trade with Persia as well, that way the Seljuks can take control of it or even the Turks or Crusaders, I think that would be a lot better then just having random resources dotting the landscape, in places where they shouldn't be (its like placing elephants in germany)


Questions:
How are the Crusades triggered? Is it on a specific date?
What do faith points do for the Arabs, and other Muslim countries?

We won't make any "colonies" that are specific for 1 civ only. That wouldn't be fair. Then we must also include Siberia for Moscow and some others. IMO you also should make a colony is only aviable to the civs that IRL settled their. (Like only Spain can build Inca- and Aztec Conquest.)

The Crusades are on a specific date. And Jerusalem must be a muslim civ or independent.
Look in the Civilopedia. Quick answer: lower costs of units and faster grow of cities.

 

[The Turk]

You totally missed my point, I said that just like there is an Atlantic or Pacific access route in West Europe, there should be a Silk Route Access on the Edge of the Map near to where the Arabs are, and I said that when the Turks come they can take advantage of this and the Seljuk's as well (they can hurt Arabia by controlling it), and so this access point to the rest of the Middle East and the Orient would give it the resources which are misplaced on the map (for example coffee does not grow anywhere near Syria/Iraq) That is why it should be represented by a trade access point instead.

Also please respond to my other comments and see what you think.

 

[Morholt]

I can confirm the two Belgrads, maybe the one in the Carpathians is missing a name in the Barbarian naming map and it defaults to the first one in the list or something like that?

About Sweden, I'd try increasing their spawn area to part of Finland (As per the Treaty of Nöteborg, 1323), and having an Independent Turku/Åbo spawn appear before the Swedish spawn. Sweden acquired Finland in the 13th century, before the Kalmar Union, so there's no reason Sweden should not have Finland when leaving the Union. Having a shipping point on the other end of the Bothnic Gulf might make the Swedes more inclined to move towards the east.

 

[micbic]

Re: 2 Belgrads. Strangely, no mistake. The second Belgrad was the early, Slavonic name of Alba Iulia (see wikipedia). Maybe it should be changed to Apulon (ancient Romanized name), or Belograd (another variant of Belgrad). The barb Belgrad is named Beograd, so I thought that we would have a Belgrad in Transylvania and a Beograd in Serbia, so no problem at all
Re: Sicily. Yes actually. Possible candidates include Byzantium (540-850, 950-1050), Arabia (850-950), Spain/Aragon (1300-1550), Norse (1050-1150).
@The Turk:
1) Agree. Maybe stronger starting force, or weakened barbs? EDIT: Or a respawn if razed case?
2) No, which cities? There were no important cities than the ones given.
3) Agreed with doubt; that would be like gifting the first UHV in human hands, however there is worse, like
5) which is gifting the first UHV in AI hands
So, a small to-do list before Beta 1 (or Beta 2), in turn of priority:

Spoiler :

-Make sure Germany does not collapse, possibly triggering a respawn immediately after spawn 1?
-New settler maps for Norse, with more expansion to Scotland
-Action to Sicily, possibly an indy, or tweaked settler maps?
-Strengthen a bit the Arabs at start, or perhaps in-game
-Sort out the initial Alba Iulia name
-New city names map for Russia/Kiev

 

[merijn_v1]

Ya just wanted to confirm what KaiserBenjamin said about the Germans, while playing a game on Monarch as the Arabs, a couple turns after the Germans spawned they were destroyed, there is definitely something wrong going up their in Northern Europe and needs to be looked into.

I would just like to say that I will not publish a full length bug/changes comment for Alpha 12 but will instead wait until the first Beta comes out which you guys said would be sometime this week, so I am eagerly waiting for that.
But somethings I do think you should change before the beta is released is:
1. Make Germany stronger, or something not to sure what the heck is going on in Germany

2. Put more easy cities in North Africa maybe 3 more, so that the Arabs can take over North Africa easier and quicker, and also where you place these 3 cities make the surronding area more lucrative by placing more resources

3. The troops that the Arabs start off with are pathetic they should get maybe a couple more troops and some catapults

4. When expanding from the Arabia, I can quite surly tell you that the Arabs did not have horse archers like the ones in the game, instead they had something like what the Seljuk's have, and instead you should give the Seljuks horse archers, because that is what the Turks are famous for, their horse archers (ie. Mongols, Turks, Timurds) all had excellent horse archers, not the horsemen with spears, which is more accurate for the Arabs, since they didn't rely on horse archers at all

5. Place Cairo from the beginning as a Byzantine city, and have it flip to the Arabs when they spawn, I think this will really help, because in a couple games in the past, they don't expand past Alexanderia because they never end up taking it

6. Instead of having the Masajid Al-Haram being spawned in Damascus, which it obviously wasn't built in (it was built in Mecca, predating the coming of Islam), I instead favour the choice of having the Ummayad Mosque or the Great Mosque of Damascus being spawned in Damsacus as a holy building because upon capture of Damascus, the Mosque was erected, you can find more info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Mosque

7. Arab Colonies:
- The Arabs should be able to build the Malay trading post, or have some sort of unique trading post for themselves
- I also firmly believe that instead of having the coffee, and other resources dotting the edge of the map (which are supposed to represent the silk road), why not have it like the Europeans and have a colony which you can build but only by controling a key tile in the game which is for the silk road and trade with Persia as well, that way the Seljuks can take control of it or even the Turks or Crusaders, I think that would be a lot better then just having random resources dotting the landscape, in places where they shouldn't be (its like placing elephants in germany)


Questions:
How are the Crusades triggered? Is it on a specific date?
What do faith points do for the Arabs, and other Muslim countries?

As you asked me to give comment on all you comment, I will give my opinion.

1. I disagree. IF Germany survives the first few turns, it becomes huge. (in almost all of my games.) So we only have to avoid them being collapsed in the first turns after their spawn.

2. We already placed some cities IIRC. (between Tunis and Cyrene) You only need to settle 1 or 2 more city to connect those cities. And to connect Cyrene and Alexandria, you alson need 1 or 2 cities. And to build 3 settlers isn't very difficult before 1540 AD. (Accually, you don't even need those cities.) But I agree that those cities should get some resources. They only have 1 or 2 fish. That's all. But with farms those cities can be very strong. (They were in my games, even without corps)

3. I usually have just enough of those 3 horse archers to conquer all what I want, but I think 1 or 2 more aren't very bad.

4. If that is historical, I agree we should change that. (maybe just the name and the art of the units)

5. I don't like this idea. I makes Arabia too powerful IMO if they control it. I think they should build it themselves.

6. No opinion.

7. As I said. And in response to your comment:
If I understand you right, you want a resource that replaces the Silk Route resources, but if you control it you still get those resources. I don't see the point in that. If the Turks or Seljuks control those resources now, they also hurt the Arabs in exactly the same way.

 

[kochman]

Ya just wanted to confirm what KaiserBenjamin said about the Germans, while playing a game on Monarch as the Arabs, a couple turns after the Germans spawned they were destroyed, there is definitely something wrong going up their in Northern Europe and needs to be looked into.

I would just like to say that I will not publish a full length bug/changes comment for Alpha 12 but will instead wait until the first Beta comes out which you guys said would be sometime this week, so I am eagerly waiting for that.
But somethings I do think you should change before the beta is released is:
1. Make Germany stronger, or something not to sure what the heck is going on in Germany

2. Put more easy cities in North Africa maybe 3 more, so that the Arabs can take over North Africa easier and quicker, and also where you place these 3 cities make the surronding area more lucrative by placing more resources

3. The troops that the Arabs start off with are pathetic they should get maybe a couple more troops and some catapults

4. When expanding from the Arabia, I can quite surly tell you that the Arabs did not have horse archers like the ones in the game, instead they had something like what the Seljuk's have, and instead you should give the Seljuks horse archers, because that is what the Turks are famous for, their horse archers (ie. Mongols, Turks, Timurds) all had excellent horse archers, not the horsemen with spears, which is more accurate for the Arabs, since they didn't rely on horse archers at all

5. Place Cairo from the beginning as a Byzantine city, and have it flip to the Arabs when they spawn, I think this will really help, because in a couple games in the past, they don't expand past Alexanderia because they never end up taking it

6. Instead of having the Masajid Al-Haram being spawned in Damascus, which it obviously wasn't built in (it was built in Mecca, predating the coming of Islam), I instead favour the choice of having the Ummayad Mosque or the Great Mosque of Damascus being spawned in Damsacus as a holy building because upon capture of Damascus, the Mosque was erected, you can find more info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Mosque

7. Arab Colonies:
- The Arabs should be able to build the Malay trading post, or have some sort of unique trading post for themselves
- I also firmly believe that instead of having the coffee, and other resources dotting the edge of the map (which are supposed to represent the silk road), why not have it like the Europeans and have a colony which you can build but only by controling a key tile in the game which is for the silk road and trade with Persia as well, that way the Seljuks can take control of it or even the Turks or Crusaders, I think that would be a lot better then just having random resources dotting the landscape, in places where they shouldn't be (its like placing elephants in germany)


Questions:
How are the Crusades triggered? Is it on a specific date?
What do faith points do for the Arabs, and other Muslim countries?

Points 2-7 seem sure to make the Arabs overpowered...
Point 1 is right on the money, this is the biggest flaw in the game for months now... Definitely fix Germany ASAP! You guys know how to fix it, it isn't a power thing, it is within the 1st few turns.

 

[Ekolite]

I think what the Turk is saying is that you add a new resource ''Silk Road Access'' in places along the south east side of the map which allow for new colony-like projects to be built which would then provide the resources. Tidies things up a little, but would probably make some of the cities in that area quite weak without their plantations.

 

[KaiserBenjamin]

I think the solution to the Germany problem is to have a second spawn of troops wherever Frankfurt is. If you look at my screenshots (and previous posts farther back in the forum), the reason they keep being destroyed is because they move all of their troops out of Frankfurt on the first turn. Then, if there's a barbarian horse archer in the area, Frankfurt is taken and razed. Having a second flip won't help, because the city will already be destroyed. Usually Germany lingers on after that with one city in the south, and then collapses several turns later.

If you make sure a pair of military units appear in Frankfurt the turn after the Germans spawn, it will fix the problem.

I agree that Sweden and Norway should be connected and/or the Swedes should get a flip zone in Finland with an independent city. That area of the map is usually bare until the late 1600s, if it gets settled at all...

 

[The Turk]

Well I think most of the problem with the Arabs is the unhistorical part of it,
1. The Arabs expanding out of Arabia never had Horse archers, that why its a quick art change to it
2. Change the Masjid Al Haram, which is actually in Mecca, and change it to the Ummayad Mosque in Damascus, which was built upon capture of the city from the Byzantines
3. Re-add Sicily as part of the settler/conquest maps for the Arabs, since it is a fact that they did control the island for quite a while
4. Fix up this nonsense with having coffee and silk being grown in Turkey and Syria, its really stupid, instead, like I have said before it should just be a trade link, which other civs can control as well, not only would it tidy up the landscape A LOT, but it would also make the game more realistic
--- On the topic of resources I would also add the olive (oil) resource for the Middle East and Sicily
--- Also why are there elephants in Iceland??? Viking elephant riders perhaps

And I would just add Cairo on its own, fine if you don't want to have it flip, but it is definitely a VERY important city, and if you are to have civ's respawn later in the game in different areas, Egypt would be the best place for the Arabs to respawn


PS Please remove Joan of Arc as leader of France, I think its really stupid that she is included since she lived such a short life and never ruled France at all, there are definitely better choices for France

 

[merijn_v1]

And I would just add Cairo on its own, fine if you don't want to have it flip, but it is definitely a VERY important city, and if you are to have civ's respawn later in the game in different areas, Egypt would be the best place for the Arabs to respawn


PS Please remove Joan of Arc as leader of France, I think its really stupid that she is included since she lived such a short life and never ruled France at all, there are definitely better choices for France

Alexandria was more important in that time. (And it is a much better place to settle in the game)

You're right, she never ruled France. But she was the leader of the army of France. Many leaderheads in the normal game weren't rulers of their nation either. (most times the are military leaders) For example: Hannibal, Julius Ceasar (the time he was consul was too short to give him the title leader of the nation, he was more important as military leader), Alexander, Huanca Capac, Bismark (just cancellor), Ghandi, Pericles. I see no reason why these "leaders" can be in and Joan d'Arc can't.

 

[BurnEmDown]

I think removing the resources and including a new colony which will likely be created by Arabia will just make it weaker. Right now these resources not only give bonuses like health and happiness but also extra commerce and stuff that all resources give. Removing them will severely weaken Arabia and any civ which can control the area.
It's a question of historical accuracy and gameplay. The mod could go historical accuracy all the way but then gameplay will suffer. I think the way it is now is fine, I know these resources aren't found anywhere near Damascus or anywhere else they appear on the map, but to me it makes sense how controlling Damascus will give you "extra trade routes" and the same for other cities.

And the elephants are there to represent tusks, they are supposed to be walrus tusks which will be unique to Iceland, thus making it worthwhile to settle even if not going for Norse UHV.

 

[kochman]

Well I think most of the problem with the Arabs is the unhistorical part of it,
1. The Arabs expanding out of Arabia never had Horse archers, that why its a quick art change to it
2. Change the Masjid Al Haram, which is actually in Mecca, and change it to the Ummayad Mosque in Damascus, which was built upon capture of the city from the Byzantines
3. Re-add Sicily as part of the settler/conquest maps for the Arabs, since it is a fact that they did control the island for quite a while
4. Fix up this nonsense with having coffee and silk being grown in Turkey and Syria, its really stupid, instead, like I have said before it should just be a trade link, which other civs can control as well, not only would it tidy up the landscape A LOT, but it would also make the game more realistic
--- On the topic of resources I would also add the olive (oil) resource for the Middle East and Sicily
--- Also why are there elephants in Iceland??? Viking elephant riders perhaps

And I would just add Cairo on its own, fine if you don't want to have it flip, but it is definitely a VERY important city, and if you are to have civ's respawn later in the game in different areas, Egypt would be the best place for the Arabs to respawn


PS Please remove Joan of Arc as leader of France, I think its really stupid that she is included since she lived such a short life and never ruled France at all, there are definitely better choices for France

OK, Turk, we get it, you want the Arabs to be the strongest.

Point 3 - No way. The arabs had a tentative hold on the island for less than 200 years... It never became fully arabized (thank God). If it is going to be on the Arab settler map, then there should also be UHV quests to retake it from them... and I don't really see that happening because despite my pleas, they will not add the Normans empire in Sicily because while it was powerful, it was short lived. So, who would take it?
Sicily should remain an indepedent nation.

I do agree with a silk road access... this makes holding that region more valuable... though you could simply put silk, spices, etc down in certain spots to take care of that.

 

[Wessel V1]

We should not make Arabia any stronger, we should make AI Arabia stronger. Perhaps even to the extent of AI getting certain bonusses that human players don't get. I agree on the Silk Road idea though, it's nicer than all those resources on the map. (Who builds plantations anyway, cottages and farms are much better). I certainly do not agree on the point that there should be more resources in North Africa. The map is already quite equal and part of the fun is to deal with the terrain you occupy. Besides, North Africa isn't even on the Arabian settler map so there would be little use to place more resources. That said, I think it should be on their settler map.

 

[kochman]

If you meant my post, I didn't mean to put more resources in N. Africa, but rather on the right/east edge of the map to represent the silk road coming from that direction.
Sorry for being unclear.

 

[Wessel V1]

No, I was refering to The Turk's post. Resources on the edge of the map is actually the current situation, which works, but is not so aesthetical.

By the way, if the Silk Road becomes a project in stead of resources, it should be a crusader target.

 

[kochman]

By the way, if the Silk Road becomes a project in stead of resources, it should be a crusader target.

Indeed. It would be hard to say that the wealth of the Levant didn't attract people... Arab, Turk, Christian...

I like the idea of competing UHVs, so that it basically forces war...
Genova & Venice has a little, but they should have some regarding trade in the Levant too, I think, as that was their real goal/source of conflict.

 

[Hangly Man]

Sorry if this has been reported already, but trying to build a Genoan bank crashes the game.

 

[sedna17]

Sorry if this has been reported already, but trying to build a Genoan bank crashes the game.

Are you using Alpha 11 or 12?

If Alpha 11 you can fix it like this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8987534&postcount=3225

Which will allow you to finish your current game before downloading/upgrading to Alpha 12.

 

[Hangly Man]

Ah thanks.

Also the colonial projects phase of the game is like watching flies . Especially if you're the Dutch.

Never go anywhere, never do anything, just sit there and try to build projects faster than Spain and England which is impossible.

 

[fireclaw722]

Especially if you're the Dutch. Never go anywhere, never do anything, just sit there and try to build projects faster than Spain and England which is impossible.

Spain is usually tied up with Cordoba(although, on the unlucky occurences Cordoba is destroyed), and France and Britian are tied up duking it out(Germany, if alive, is usually on one side or the other, which helps also). Usually the problem for me is that Germany, Austria, or the Ottomans are trading with the colonial powers and get the AA resource, allowing them to build colonies very quickly.