RFC Europe Wonders

[Cethegus]

I have a question about the Krak des Chevaliers. As far as I know, the current proposal is that it's going to give a free Castle in all of your cities and I was wondering if that's right. Historically it was built in Syria to make a strong fortress for the Crusaders to rest and plan their next move, like a base. But right now in Civ terms, there would be no sense building the wonder in hostile territory if as long as its effects are that of +1 free Castle in all cities. In most cases, I'm sure it would rather be built on homeland turf than where it is historically located to secure that the +1 Castle effect stayed in the hands of fellow countrymen and for that I'm sceptical whether its gameplay mechanics display its historical effects properly.

So, my proposal would be that it's a moderately-cheap-wonder-for-a-conquered-city to build, would raise the town's defenses by 50% (25% after the discovery of gunpowder) and only be built during war. I don't know how much thought there is behind giving KDC +1 Free Castles wonder effect but I think it should be made more practical and a strategic asset. There's a reason it was situated where it was, and for all I know it could be a regular Castle in Civ terms, auto-built by another Wonder with +1 Free Castles effect.

 

[jessiecat]

The idea of free castles for the KDC was just that. An idea. And while your suggestion is equally valid, there's no reason why a wonder has to conform precisely to its historical function. As soon as our modders are available again I'd like to see us add a few more wonders and colonial projects ASAP. Playtesting the mod in its present stage of development is getting increasingly boring IMO.

 

[Cethegus]

Alright. And I agree with that one Civ-player whose signature stated: "If you want strategy, go play chess. If you want historical accuracy, go read a history book." Not all wonders should be direct duplicas of their historical selves, but it might help or direct us somewhere.

I'll try to find the current list of to-be-added wonders somewhere and see if there would be a more suitable +1 Castle wonder than KDC. Speaking of which, are there graphics for it yet or is the development team to improvise?

 

[st.lucifer]

Alright. And I agree with that one Civ-player whose signature stated: "If you want strategy, go play chess. If you want historical accuracy, go read a history book." Not all wonders should be direct duplicas of their historical selves, but it might help or direct us somewhere.

I'll try to find the current list of to-be-added wonders somewhere and see if there would be a more suitable +1 Castle wonder than KDC. Speaking of which, are there graphics for it yet or is the development team to improvise?

We could concievably use Kalmar Castle for the free castle in all cities wonder, but it might appear kind of late for that purpose and become obsolete quickly. In light of your observations on KDC, we could also change its function to something related to having troops in enemy territory - no war weariness, reduced maintenance penalty, or even healing.

 

[civmademepoor]

Perhaps if we kept that Krak, which I'm partial too, it could add walls and castles to all conquered cities similar to RFC's Arab UP?

 

[mats]

You should consider Sveaborg which definately is a wonder. At the time when it was built it was the biggest construction in europe and the the king of sweden had to borrow money from France to finish it. It played a great part in the defence of the Swedish kingdom against the Russians. The sveaborg drydock was the biggest part in the construction of the fortress and was considered somewhat a engineering wonder in the world at the time. Perhaps somekind of castle with extra defence bonus or combined drydock.

wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveaborg

 

[Verily]

You should consider Sveaborg which definately is a wonder. At the time when it was built it was the biggest construction in europe and the the king of sweden had to borrow money from France to finish it. It played a great part in the defence of the Swedish kingdom against the Russians. The sveaborg drydock was the biggest part in the construction of the fortress and was considered somewhat a engineering wonder in the world at the time. Perhaps somekind of castle with extra defence bonus or combined drydock.

wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveaborg

Sveaborg wasn't even begun until 1748; this mod ends at 1800. There is simply no point in including a wonder which is only available with one of the last techs on the tech tree and whose only effects could be extra defense. Sveaborg would be more appropriate to a mod which tried to represent Europe between the end of the Thirty Years' War up to World War I.

 

[Cethegus]

Sveaborg wasn't even begun until 1748; this mod ends at 1800. There is simply no point in including a wonder which is only available with one of the last techs on the tech tree and whose only effects could be extra defense. Sveaborg would be more appropriate to a mod which tried to represent Europe between the end of the Thirty Years' War up to World War I.

Sorry mats, no love for the Fatherland here.

 

[mats]

Yeah you're probably right, my bad . The Kalmar castle just seems a bit boring for a wonder.

What do you think about University of Uppsala which could have like great scientist spawning effect?

 

[Cethegus]

Considering Sankore University is in the Vanilla game and the development team is intending to keep some of the wonder effects the same, then I don't see a reason why not. It might not have to have University of Sankore wonder effect, but I suppose it deserves its place in the potential wonder list. What do others think? Would Sweden be over-represented in the wonders apartment?

Also, you don't have to type in a reason why you've editted your message. If I did that every time I editted a message of mine, every two of them would have a little banner in the bottom saying "Reason for editting: typo, grammar mistake, corrected spell-writing etc..."

 

[micbic]

Keeping the Oxford University seems even better for me.

 

[Cethegus]

Keeping the Oxford University seems even better for me.

Oh yeah, I had forgotten about that. Guess that suggestion can be considered scrapped, then.

 

[jessiecat]

EDIT Double post

 

[jessiecat]

National Wonders

National Theatre (replaces Globe Theatre) - done
National Gallery (replaces Hermitage) -
National University (replaces Oxford University) - done
Royal Academy (replaces Great Library)
National Epic (as RFC)- done
Heroic Epic (as RFC) - done

Projects

Atlantic Access *
East India Company *
West India Company *
Hanseatic Ports
Medici Bank
Knights Templar

Colonies

-12 colonies now included in the game

World Wonders(35)

Forbidden Palace * (included)
Summer Palace *
The Sistine Chapel, Rome *
Versailles, Paris *
Notre Dame, Paris *
The Leaning Tower, Pisa *
The Theodosian Walls, Constantinople *
Topkapi Palace, Constantinople *
Shrine of Uppsala, Norse *
Krak des Chevaliers *
The Monastery of Cluny *
The Round Church *
The Alhambra Palace *

The Tomb of Khalid ibn Al Walid (replaces the Statue of Zeus, enemies suffer 100% war weariness,
+1 Great General.)
The Dome of the Rock, Jerusalem (replaces the Taj Mahal, starts Golden Age +1 Great. Artist?)
Kalmar Castle, Sweden (replaces The Pentagon, all new units rec. +1 experience point?))
The Gardens of Al Andalus, Cordoba (replaces the Hanging Gardens, +1 health, +1 food per city)
The Golden Bull, Hungary (replaces the Shwedagon Paya, enables all religion civics)
The Brandenburg Gate, Berlin (replaces The Kremlin, -33% production costs in all cities)
The Basilica San Marco, Venice (replaces the Temple of Artemis, +100% trade routes + 1 Great Merchant)
The Palazzo San Giorgio, Genoa (replaces the Statue of Liberty, +1 free specialist per city, 1 Great Merchant)
The Palacio de Pena, Portugal (replaces Christo Redentor, no anarchy when changing civics or religion))
The Escorial Palace, Spain (replaces the Spiral Minaret, +1 gold per all state religion buildings)
La Scala Opera House, Milan (replaces The Eiffel Tower. free monument per city)
St. Basil's Cathedral, Moscow (replaces The Mausoleum of Maussalos, +50% Golden Age length,
+1 Great Artist.)
St. Sophia Cathedral, Kiev (replaces Angkor Wat,+1 hammer per priest, can turn 3 citizens into priest))
The Jewish Quarter of Krakov, Poland (establishes Judaism in every large city?)
The Temple Mount, Jerusalem (replaces the Temple of Solomon)
Leonardo's Inventions, Italy (1 free scientist, 1 free artist in each city?)
The Copernican Revolution, Poland (as in Civ3)
Issac Newton's Laboratory, England (as in Civ3)
Magellan's Voyage, Portugal (as in Civ3)
Rembrandt's Masterpiece, Amsterdam (culture + happiness boost in all cities?)
Mozart's Concertos, Vienna (free theatres in all cities?)
Magna Carta, England (replaces the Pyramids, enables all govt. types)
Aztec Conquest?
Inca Conquest?

 

[3Miro]

Just a thought. What if the Arabs build Krak des Chevaliers (as in the "real world"), that would effectively make them immune to the Mongolian invasions which is kind of inaccurate.

 

[jessiecat]

Just a thought. What if the Arabs build Krak des Chevaliers (as in the "real world"), that would effectively make them immune to the Mongolian invasions which is kind of inaccurate.

Sorry. I meant replaces the Great Wall art only. As someone suggested, the effect might be a free wall and castle in each conquered city only. If that's possible to code.

 

[3Miro]

Sorry. I meant replaces the Great Wall art only. As someone suggested, the effect might be a free wall and castle in each conquered city only. If that's possible to code.

Sure, will put it on the to-do list.

 

[BurnEmDown]

I'd like to suggest changing the name of "Jewish Quarter of Krakov" to "Largest Jewish Quarter in Europe" or something like this, just like the "Leaning Tower" doesn't have "Pisa" in it's name or any other wonder. Also, I think the Jewish Quarter wonder shouldn't be responsible for Judaism's spread in Europe, but rather give cities with Judaism some bonuses like culture, gold, or research.

 

[3Miro]

We should start by adding a generic Jewish quarter building that cannot be normally build. Jewish quarters would spread as discussed some time ago. Jewish Quarter of Krakov (or however you name them) could give bonuses to the Jewish quarters in every city.

I am not sure about the largest Jewish community name, what if another civ has more Jews but you end up building the quarters. Maybe we should ask a prerequisite X number of Jewish Quarters before one can build the wonder.

 

[BurnEmDown]

Well most nations had Jewish quarters in some cities during the middle ages, I thought Krakov's was picked because it was one of the biggest? It doesn't really matter which nation has more Jews, just which one has the most influencing Jewish quarter. Then again, if the name is too long, I could think of something different to represent Jewish influence in Europe during the Middle ages. Off the top of my head I can suggest picking one the biggest Synagogues.