Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall Modmods' started by The Flame8, May 10, 2013.
Great I'll help add those.
Now think up Unique Units and buildings!
Despotism: -50% war unhappiness. Low upkeep
Absolute Monarchy: Monument and barracks +1 happiness. +10 free units. Low upkeep.
Confederation: -40% maintenance cost number of cities. +1 happiness in a city per military unit stationed. Gradually becomes more unstable the more cities you control. Medium upkeep.
Limited Monarchy: +2 happiness in five largest cities. Medium upkeep.
Republic: +30% wealth in capital. +100% war unhappiness. High upkeep.
Power* (Mostly from RFCA)
Military: All units produced with food. +50% great general emergence. Medium upkeep.
Clergy: +50% Great person birth rate. +1 happiness in a city with state religion. High upkeep.
Nobility: +2 science and culture per specialist. Low upkeep.
Merchants: +10% wealth in each city. Markets +5% wealth. Medium upkeep.
Common Law: +25% maintenance from distance to palace. Courts +1 happiness. Small penalty to other civs without Common Law. High upkeep.
Tyranny: Can sacrifice population to finish production. +2 unhappiness in each city. Low upkeep.
Serfdom: same as RFCE
Free Peasantry: same as RFCE
Apprenticeship: same as RFCE
Wage Labor: cottages +1 production? High upkeep.
Decentralization: none. Low upkeep.
Manorialism: same as RFCE
Trade Economy: same as RFCE
Guilds: same as RFCE
Mercantilism: +25% food in capital. Mines +1 gold. Exported resources produce extra income. High upkeep.
Paganism: +1 culture per city. +1 unhappiness per religion in a city. Low upkeep.
Monasticism: Monastery +1 health. Can train missionary without monastery. Low upkeep.
Bishopric: -20% maintenance cost from distance to palace. +50% piety gain. Medium upkeep.
Persecution: +50% espionage in each city. +1 unhappiness for a non religion and each of its buildings present in a city. Can train inquisitor. High upkeep.
Tolerance: +25% great person birth rate. +1 culture per religion in a city. No instability from non state religions present in a city. High upkeep
Subjugation: none. Low upkeep.
Vassalage: +5 stability per vassal. Can train vassal's UU. High upkeep.
Occupation: +2 stability on conquest of a city. No instability for occupying a city. Medium upkeep.
Resettlement: +2 stability for founding a city. Medium upkeep.
Dynastic Unions: (depending on how unions are tackled for this mod*) increases likelihood of enacting unions between other civs. Lowers penalty for expanding into foreign territory. High upkeep.
Limited Monarchy seems a bit underwhelming, considering it's a mid-to-late game civic.
Power looks very similar to RFCA, doesn't it? (not saying that it's necessarily a bad thing) And Common Law looks really, really underpowered for a late-game civic.
Most of the other suggestions look fine.
Maybe for Common Law a medium upkeep, and +1 happiness and stability for jail... The only other thought for boosting Limited Monarchy, Common Law, and maybe Republic is to allow special civic buildings. For example: a senate house, people's assembly, oratory platform, or even classical buildings too. (an agora perhaps?)
And I forgot to reference RFCA.
This looks like a great new modmod (I'm downloading now). I'd like to throw in a few general points that might spur some thoughts.
Firstly, it's worthwhile having separate Lutheran, Reformed, and Roman Catholic religions, because (a) a lot of the 17th century religious conflict was within Protestantism (b) you're going to get far more interesting diplomatic gameplay with three corners rather than always having the same two sides lining up.
Secondly, there seems to be some confusion about Brandenburg, Prussia, and the Teutonic Knights, which are closely related as this very helpful Wikipedia template shows. The key turning point was when a member of the Hohenzollern dynasty, who already ruled Brandenburg, became leader of the Teutonic Knights, turned Protestant and brought Prussia into the Hohenzollern realms.
How we can represent this in RFC? I'd suggest that there should be a Hohenzollern/Brandenburg civ (starting in 1157, as has already been suggested, or in 1411 when the Hohenzollerns took over). The case of the Teutonic Knights is so special that it calls out for a special dynamic: how about flipping their cities at the Reformation to whichever HRE civ has the most faith points?! That civ can then get the dynamic name of Prussia.
Thirdly, it might be worth thinking about how to represent dynasticism. So many of the 'civs' discussed here are really collections of dynastic lands for most of this period, not separate civs. Perhaps that's why the core German civs don't yet have unique units and buildings in the spreadsheet.
What about using the Corporation mechanism to represent dynasties? If you found a dynasty (= Corporation headquarters), then you can spread it through marrying off your heirs (= Corporation Executives) and you have a chance of 'inheriting' cities which have your heirs through random events. This would give RFC Germania a very distinctive flavour compared to other RFCs. Chinese Unification has already done this with bloodlines replacing religions.
Baron those are some awesome ideas for both civics and elsewhere. I don't know if we really need another Teutonic Civ though.
Separation within Protestantism, hmmm that could work and indeed would add some awesome diplomacy.
I think this is a really good idea for a mod, and I'll be following this
I'm gone this week so I won't be able to do anything this week.
More disorganized Ideas and thoughts
Technologies: most can be borrowed from RFCE and SOI. If not, a few can be made up in their place to switch them around
Unique Cannon promotions: (As in, you have a great general attach specifically to a cannon unit... Or as regular promotions)
Falconet: +10% collateral damage, +15% versus infantry
Culverin: +50% versus artillery units, -20% collateral damage from enemy units
Howitzer: +10% bombardment damage to enemy defenses, +1 strength
Cumans and Avars as barbarian spawns against Hungary. Same as RFCE
Barbarian Turkic units spawn periodically from 1453-1510.
Ottomans spawn as a minor/major civilization in 1520 at Belgrade. (Leader Selim I and Sulieman the Magnificent) with a large stack of units.
Ottoman UP: The Power of Devshirme Can draft +3 units per turn. No unhappiness from draft. (From SOI)
Alternate UP: The Power of Kapikulu Infantry start with Strength I promotion
Units available for Ottomans or any Islamic civ (which should only be the Ottomans) unless as a Mercenary.
Spahi(Sipahi) an Ottoman Knight
Mercenaries: RFCE covers a good amount. Add Fusilier (Swedish Musketeer), Elmeti (Italian Knight), Fluyt (Dutch Galleon), Uhlan (Light German cavalry), Czapka Uhlan (Polish version of Uhlan), Bidaut +75% versus mounted units (Pyrenees/South France early weak spearman)
*Iberian Company: extra commerce? (helps for Spanish Netherlands dynamism. Executive in their spawn stack?)
UU Cassador - Portuguese Musketman/Rifleman
UU Genitor - Spanish Light Cavalry
*Brotherhood of St. Mark: extra food? (they held importance in southern Germany and monopolized the Doppelsoldner)
UU Doppelsoldner (same as RFCE mercenary)
Special Civic Buildings: to help improve late game civics
Common Law: can construct
Tribunal office -- +2 espionage, -10% maintenance cost
Limited Monarchy: can construct
Oratory platform -- +1 culture, +5% research
People's Assembly -- +5% production, +1 happiness
Republic: can construct
Senate house -- +2 stability, +10% wealth
*Need two of these civics to be active to construct National Convention (+2 happiness, +3 stability, +6 culture, +3 Great Person points)
Brandenburg leader: Albert the Bear
UP: Sandbox of Germany - regular buildings cheaper until Late Medieval Era
Venice UU: same as RFCE, not very useful but accurate.
Will the Title: Holy Roman Emperor have an ability, for example, all HRE provinces become stable?
And when it's a civs first time being elected as Emperor they could receive a mini golden age. (Three turns?)
Is the doc sheet updated frequently? It's hard to keep up with others suggestions when they're spread out within the thread (like the Swiss and Lombard ideas from Constantinople a while ago). And could you add the minor civs UHVs and such just to keep up with everything as well?
Does anybody have any ideas for the Bavarian UP? I'm thinking something akin to Serbia's UP from RFCE:++
EDIT: Or maybe something like "The Power of Wittelsbach Continuity" Bavarian core cities and provinces cannot secede or collapse?
EDITEDIT: Also need a UU for them, and for several others.
Wittelsbach Continuity sounds good. I suggested their UU as a Rhenish Knight, but it's generic.
Oh man, this reminds me of the title system in SoI. We should definitely do something like that.
Most of the techs will be borrowed from RFCE. But as this mod starts and ends later, some early techs will be removed and some techs for the industrial era will be added. (And probably also some minor adjustments to the techtree itself)
The barbarian invasions will be added.
I'm not sure about the Ottomans though. I prefer Serbia in that area as a minor civ. Adding the Ottomans draws to much focus on it IMO. (Which is not what we want.)
But now you bring the Ottomans up, we can add the as a kind of barbarian invasion. (like the Seljuks/Mongols in RFCE)
You have been playing Age of Empires 3, haven't you?
Mercenaries will get an important role in this mod. An even bigger role than the other RFC modmods, as Mercenaries were very important for Germany. It will probably get a whole redesign.
Can I borrow some of you suggestions for RFCE. Some of these mercs will fit in there too.
I have been searching for an extra military corp. The Brotherhood of St. Mark will fit.
I dislike the Iberian Company. Spain (Spanish Netherlands) is going to be a minor civ. As it's importance for this mod isn't really big. Why add a whole new corp for something that isn't really important.
(And the buff can be done with modifiers etc.)
If it will not unbalance the game, I'm not against it.
I will add these suggestions to the spreadsheet.
IIRC, srpt is working on something similar like the RFCE++ HRE system for this mod.
It's updated regularly. It hasn't been updated for a while because I was on a holiday for some time. (And the Flame was also not at home for some time)
Everyone can make suggestions on it. (Right-click on a tile and type in the suggestion) Right now, most of the things in the spreadsheet (especially on the civs page) are just suggestions.
Minor civs are in the list. But they don't have UHV. (Why whould they, if you can't play them)
But you gave me an idea how to redesign some parts of the spreadsheet, so it's easier to keep up with everything.
I updated the spreadsheet, so any idea for UP/UB etc can be easily listed.
(now everyone can edit the spreadsheet)
If you have an idea for a civ that hasn't an UU/UB/UP etc yet, you can fill in that spot in the civs tab. (1st tab)
When that civ already has something for that, post your idea in the "suggestions" page. (2nd tab)
All suggestions are welcome.
Also post your ideas in this thread, so they can be discussed.
I was thinking the same
We can add Fusilier (Swedish Musketeer), Elmeti (Italian Knight), Fluyt (Dutch Galleon), Uhlan (Light German cavalry), Czapka Uhlan (Polish version of Uhlan)
Maybe Cassador (Portuguese Musketman/Rifleman), Genitor (Spanish Light Cavalry) as well
Avars are too early, they collapsed some 40 years before this mod starts. Cumans will work, though, and I do hope there will be some Mongols?
Yep, Barb pressure on Hungary in the 10-12th century is from Cumans and Pechenegs
Will minor civs have UP's?
Separate names with a comma.