RFCEurope 1.1

[gps]

Thanks, glad you like the mod!

You're welcome, keep up the good work!
Btw. some really, really minor language related issues - and I feel almost a bit silly for bringing them up. But judging from the mod you seem to be the perfectionist who might care about details like that:
I think it should be "Ostmark" for Austria like in the noun "der Osten", not like in "Österreich" or the adjective "östlich". To add the "Ö" like in "Österreich" is impressively good thinking for a non-native speaker, but just not correct - in modern German at least.
And I would also recommend to use the troop statements from the Vanilla German Empire rather than those of the BTS HRE. The German troops speak proper modern German while for the HRE Firaxis took something that for me sounds like Plattdeutsch or Friesisch or something similar, which both are local dialects from northern Germany. Nice idea to separate the HRE from Germany in BTS - but with the HRE not around I'd say it makes more sense to use the "proper" language files.

 

[AbsintheRed]

You're welcome, keep up the good work!
Btw. some really, really minor language related issues - and I feel almost a bit silly for bringing them up. But judging from the mod you seem to be the perfectionist who might care about details like that:
I think it should be "Ostmark" for Austria like in the noun "der Osten", not like in "Österreich" or the adjective "östlich". To add the "Ö" like in "Österreich" is impressively good thinking for a non-native speaker, but just not correct - in modern German at least.
And I would also recommend to use the troop statements from the Vanilla German Empire rather than those of the BTS HRE. The German troops speak proper modern German while for the HRE Firaxis took something that for me sounds like Plattdeutsch or Friesisch or something similar, which both are local dialects from northern Germany. Nice idea to separate the HRE from Germany in BTS - but with the HRE not around I'd say it makes more sense to use the "proper" language files.

Thanks again
And yeah, will definitely change it to Ostmark
Btw, we are currently thinking about adding Prussia to the mod
Germany (as a general representation for the HRE) will also stay there - at least for now
What to do with the unit speech then?

 

[gps]

What to do with the unit speech then?

Yeah, I read the other discussion as well. For Prussia I would also take the "standard" German. There are dialects like "Ostpreussisch", but I'd say also they sound a bit different to what Firaxis chose for the HRE - although I have to say the late era Prussia included countrysides where people speak similar to how HRE sounds in BTS. Actually I would chose the "standard" German also for Austria and the HRE no matter what. What Firaxis tried here is a nice touch, but as long as there is no one around that could record real middle-age German sentences, I'd say modern German is the next best choice you have.

 

[krieger546]

I think it should be "Ostmark" for Austria

Ostmark is not the equivalent of Austria. It stands for March of Austria, which was a march of the duchy of Bavaria. It existed for less than two centuries, then it became a duchy of its own. It's not appropriate to refer to it as a march, since we actually have a playable Austrian civilization.

 

[AbsintheRed]

We are only talking about dynamic civ names
Austria's name changes to German Ostmark when vassalized to Germany/HRE

 

[AbsintheRed]

Yeah, I read the other discussion as well. For Prussia I would also take the "standard" German. There are dialects like "Ostpreussisch", but I'd say also they sound a bit different to what Firaxis chose for the HRE - although I have to say the late era Prussia included countrysides where people speak similar to how HRE sounds in BTS. Actually I would chose the "standard" German also for Austria and the HRE no matter what. What Firaxis tried here is a nice touch, but as long as there is no one around that could record real middle-age German sentences, I'd say modern German is the next best choice you have.

Yeah, it makes sence to use modern german if we add Prussia

Btw, Austria currently also uses HRE sounds
Also all the germany related mercenaries: Landsknecht, Swiss Pikeman, Black Reiter, Doppelsoldner, Swiss Gun Infantry
You think all of these should be changed to Civ IV's german sounds?

EDIT: Is there any other german here who would like to share his/her thoughts about this?
Does everyone dislike the HRE sounds?

Nice idea to separate the HRE from Germany in BTS - but with the HRE not around I'd say it makes more sense to use the "proper" language files.

Because I don't agree with this statement, IMO it's not a bad thing in a historical mod at all
If those sounds are unrealistic for the medieval HRE then we shouldn't use them of course
But if the goal is only to have "proper" or modern german there, I would rather stick to the current speech

 

[krieger546]

We are only talking about dynamic civ names
Austria's name changes to German Ostmark when vassalized to Germany/HRE

Whoops! My mistake.

 

[merijn_v1]

EDIT: Is there any other german here who would like to share his/her thoughts about this?
Does everyone dislike the HRE sounds?

Because I don't agree with this statement, IMO it's not a bad thing in a historical mod at all
If those sounds are unrealistic for the medieval HRE then we shouldn't use them of course
But if the goal is only to have "proper" or modern german there, I would rather stick to the current speech

I'm not a German native speaker myself, but I think it should not be changed.
Germany represents the HRE in RFCE and not modern Germany. As the HRE is a medieval civs, I think it should also use medieval sounds.
The sounds of the HRE may sound someting like plattdeutsch or something, but I think Firaxis has a reason for that. I pretty sure that they did some research on how the people in the HRE area spoke, before they included it in BTS.
And all languages change over time, so obviously, modern German sounds different from the language used in Medieval Germany. I'm pretty sure that the HRE sounds are closer to the Medieval German than the modern German.
So I think we should stay with the current sounds.

This is also the reason why Austria has the HRE sounds. As we don't have unique Austrian sounds, we have to use the German ones. And also here we use the HRE sounds because they are more medieval than the modern German sounds.

And I would also recommend to use the troop statements from the Vanilla German Empire rather than those of the BTS HRE. The German troops speak proper modern German while for the HRE Firaxis took something that for me sounds like Plattdeutsch or Friesisch or something similar, which both are local dialects from northern Germany. Nice idea to separate the HRE from Germany in BTS - but with the HRE not around I'd say it makes more sense to use the "proper" language files.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Would it be a good compromise to use german sounds for Austria and Prussia (if included), and HRE sounds for Germany and the mercenaries?

 

[merijn_v1]

I think that Germany should have the HRE sounds.
I'm not sure about Austria though, because I don't know if it is closer to modern German or the HRE sounds.
If Prussia will be added, I think it should use modern German.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I will also change Lithuanian sounds to Polish instead of Russian, at least until we have a better solution
It would be perfect if someone could record those couple words in Lithuanian. Swedish would be great too, currently they use Civ IV's Viking sounds

 

[gps]

This is also the reason why Austria has the HRE sounds. As we don't have unique Austrian sounds, we have to use the German ones. And also here we use the HRE sounds because they are more medieval than the modern German sounds.

As with the issue of making the Kingdom of Prussia the legal succesor of the Teutonic order, you guys are totally free to do whatever you want in this mod. But the HRE does not sound like medieval to me, it sounds like some guys from the north coast. And I've seen some discussions here in the forums speculating about what HRE speaks and I've never met anyone that really confirmed this is medieval German - all I've ever heards was: it sounds like north coast.
Modern German was more or less defined by Martin Luther's Bible, which was written in the 15th century. So there was definitely some version of German around in 1400 AD that absolutely does not look and sound like what the BTS-HRE does. And I have to admit I am no linguistic expert, but I can't imagine the Austrians (at the opposite side of the German speaking countries) 1000 years ago talking like guys from the north coast do today...

 

[AbsintheRed]

I already changed Austria to have Civ IV's german sounds

 

[AbsintheRed]

I'm thinking about changing the Jew's spread mechanism
Not really fond of the fact that currently only Poland has a couple jewish cities in the mid game
I would like to see a couple other spreads to random cities in Europe every now and then
Otherwise there is no real point of that religion, just plain boring. Along with the Jewish Quarter special building and the Kazimierz wonder

Obviously some of these preset spawns should stay there, Iberia in the early game and Poland in the mid game should still get a couple spreads by default
But I'm thinking about adding a general spread rate for a couple centuries. Maybe between 1100 and 1600?
For example: Jews have a 3% chance to spread to a random central european city each turn, and 1% chance to spread to a western or eastern european one
That would mean a new city with judaism in every 50-60 years on average

With the recent inquisition overhaul (If Judaism is persecuted, it has 80% chance to move to another city on the map) it would add a point to the whole thing

 

[AbsintheRed]

It would be perfect if someone could record those couple words in Lithuanian. Swedish would be great too, currently they use Civ IV's Viking sounds

Also, scottish would be nice too
The other civs that came up recently are more or less fine
Btw, it's only 20 words which can be easily recorded if you have a mic/headset for your computer
Are there any lithuanian/swedish/scottish speaking players here?

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I have friends who can speak Scottish, Middle High German, and Lithuanian. The first two of them have high quality microphones for recording (and they both sound magnificent). I don't know about the third. Just give me some details (What lines are there exactly? Do they need to be recorded in separate files? Is mp3 the preferred format? I don't have Civ IV installed atm so I can't check.) and I'll ask them.

btw As of 1.1, the Scottish mercenaries (Highlander, Highlander Infantry) already have stylized speech. I don't understand a word but they sound totally badass. Can't say the same about the HRE voice sets though (no offense to the voice actor).

I also know a few Swedish speakers but they're all girls, so I assume their voices cannot be used. o__O

 

[merijn_v1]

They don't unique Scottish sounds. They are given the Celtic sounds, because the Scottish Gaelic derived from the Celtic language.

So it's not real Scottish, but something that sounds a bit like it.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I have friends who can speak Scottish, Middle High German, and Lithuanian. The first two of them have high quality microphones for recording (and they both sound magnificent). I don't know about the third. Just give me some details (What lines are there exactly? Do they need to be recorded in separate files? Is mp3 the preferred format? I don't have Civ IV installed atm so I can't check.) and I'll ask them.

Sounds perfect!
It would great if you could ask them to do this

The voices should be in separate files.
Small, couple sec long mp3 or wav files are usually used.

There are 10 order and 10 select sounds, I attached a couple voice sets as examples
(both original and fan-made, wav and mp3, with english, german, and hre among them)
Order:
As you wish!
Move up!
Certainly!
We are on it!
No problem!
Considerate it done!
Very well!
On our way!
Let's get moving!
You can count on us!

Select:
Reporting for duty!
At your service!
Tell me what to do!
I'm waiting your orders!
Ready for action!
What's the plan?
Yes?
Your orders?
What do you need?
All present and accounted for!

Of course the lines doesn't have to be exactly like this
Just gave it as an example, to have a general idea what kind of lines to use
Actually there don't even have to be 10 lines if there isn't enough suitable translations for the given language
6-8 are already great to have for any of the civs (for example Bulgaria has 6 order and 5 select sounds)

 

[ezzlar]

By the way. I would like some more challenge. Is it possible to alter starting units depending on the civ being AI or human? And is it possible to alter starting units depending on which civ the human is playing?

 

[AbsintheRed]

By the way. I would like some more challenge. Is it possible to alter starting units depending on the civ being AI or human?

Yeah, there are a couple places to edit these, both in C++ and python
But since it's or your personal version, why don't you just add/delete a couple units in the WB on spawn?

And is it possible to alter starting units depending on which civ the human is playing?

I'm not sure what you mean here
Different civs have different starting units, but I'm sure you know that
Why isn't that the same question as the previous one?

EDIT:
Oh, I think I got what you you want
Say if you play with France, you want your neighbors to spawn with more units
It's also possible, but much harder than the previous question, needs some python programming at least