Rhye's Catapult

[V. Soma]

http://rhye.civfanatics.net/civ4/files/RhyesCatapult029.zip

i forgot the old WBS (006) inside it. Ignore it and use 007

Wow, I jump to it and give it a shot until AD 1000...
...I am interested especially if Euro-civs get their 3 cities...

 

[Rhye]

I meant jungle as obstacle in economic sense:
If we do not let jungle to be cut out then China and India cannot have that much food and hammers...
As I see it from the F9 graphs, these two - food and hammers - are what really counts in the end
/well, not a big finding I guess /

aah that is easy.

let's try postponing it to Biology.

Here, use this file (inside XML\Units)

 

[V. Soma]

Rhye, here is a pic of 1250 of 029

I say it is huge improvement...

The barb attack against Rome was wonderful...
Is it intended that Greece has longbow by AD 500? To make good defense?

Rome could save himself though, as you can see in the pic.

Did Germany get only 2 settlers at start?
Now he is cramped somewhat as Russia closed borders in the East - we'll see...

Idea:
Rome cannot settle Sardinia - how about moving Corsica/Sardinia a bit to SW?

Arabia also had a nice start - I see the barbs there are now stronger!

But Egypt did not get beck the short-distance


-

Now I put in the "biology" file and give another run till 1250...

 

[V. Soma]

Test 2

Again, Germany has 2 cities.
Maybe, because the stupid 3. settler tries to go west, while there would be great site at the east.
Ehh...
Could it be that the Germans start with group of units on 2 tiles?
One could be a little east with 2 settlers...

That Corsica/Sardinia thing really annoys me...

Arabia now has an aggressive settling at start - OK...
but...
It signals the end of Persia somewhat...


On Prince level Rome easily survived the barb attack...

/that's it - sleeping time now.../

 

[Willowmound]

yes I am.
829AD is the first date I found of united England

Wikipedia says this:

As [the Angle and Saxon tribes] became more civilised, recognisable states formed and began to merge with one another ... From time to time throughout this period, one Anglo-Saxon king, recognised as the "Bretwalda" by other rulers, had effective control of all or most of the English; so it is impossible to identify the precise moment when the Kingdom of England was unified. In some sense, real unity came as a response to the Danish Viking incursions which occupied the eastern half of England in the [9th] century. Egbert, King of Wessex (d. 839) is often regarded as the first king of all the English.

The earliest Viking raid on England is recorded in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle for the year 793, though a smaller incident was reported even earlier, in 789. The problem with having England not spawn until the nineth century is that any Viking civ would have to spawn in 800AD at the latest. The historicity of this is clearly not the best.

Why not consider the civ of England as the Anglo-Saxons in the British isles (the West Saxons, as they were sometimes called)? Then you could spawn England in 600AD, all problems solved.

Considering the Vikings count as a civ, even though they were never one coherent 'nation' under one king, spawning England around the arrival of the Angles and Saxons in what became England makes perfect sense!

 

[V. Soma]

Willowmound, check out the 029 map (07W or what),
England has a nice new map and by 1200-1300 four cities on it...

In my second test run (on Prince level) Rome remained strong with 4 cities
(the ones Caesar gets in the early extension),
and still, there was enough space for France and Spain to make their initial 3 and 4 cities...

I hope we don't want Rome to be killed off...

 

[Willowmound]

@Soma: I wasn't primarily concerned with space. I think England should spawn a little earlier for historical reasons. Though of course they need space to grow powerful!

 

[Rhye]

vikings in warlords would spawn around late 700 in Scandinavia...what's wrong? I don't see the problem

 

[Rhye]

Idea:
Rome cannot settle Sardinia - how about moving Corsica/Sardinia a bit to SW?

I doubt it will be used. Just like Crete by Greeks: ignored because it's too close

 

[V. Soma]

I doubt it will be used. Just like Crete by Greeks: ignored because it's too close

Well, I still wish Rome to settle on an island near...

I will try adjustments...
One idea is to put the Balearic islands (one tile) on the map, and see,
perhaps in the time when that region is still empty,
Rome may cast an eye on it (I would put some nice fish and crabs around )

Is that within the coordinates for Rome?

EDIT:

Now I see that to have a city on a one-tile island is not the best - too much defense?

 

[Lachlan]

I'm playing 029 at level Vassal : it's too easy for me !

What is the most balanced level between AIs and Human ?

 

[Barak]

I hope we don't want Rome to be killed off...

I concur that Rome should not be killed off by design. However, just as history showed the rise of Western Europe at the decline of Rome the Roman civ should be hemmed in by the new Euro civs and any further expansion should be done by the sword.

With the Greek early expansion into Asia Minor and Mesopotamia, are the perhaps starting out too advanced? It would seem to me that the Middle East should be a fair battleground of AI civs vs AI barbarian, yet the Greek armies have taken the area in each of my tests.

Soma, have you done any analysis on this part of the map?

 

[Barak]

When considering the question of the spawn of England coinciding with the establishment of a unified England, we must ask the question of what to do with Germany. The German people were not unified into a common nation until modern times. In the first centuries CE, the German people were divided into many tribes, settling the land.

If we feel that we can unify the German people earlier than even the HRE establishment (also not really one nation), then I would think that we can spawn England earlier to reflect their rise and defense of the British Isles from the Danes.

Considering that Anglo-Saxon residents of England crossed the channel and settled Brittany starting in the 4th century CE it seems strange for the English nation to wait for Egbert's recognition.

Afterall, China was not one nation in 4000BC, nor was India.

 

[V. Soma]

I concur that Rome should not be killed off by design. However, just as history showed the rise of Western Europe at the decline of Rome the Roman civ should be hemmed in by the new Euro civs and any further expansion should be done by the sword.

With the Greek early expansion into Asia Minor and Mesopotamia, are the perhaps starting out too advanced? It would seem to me that the Middle East should be a fair battleground of AI civs vs AI barbarian, yet the Greek armies have taken the area in each of my tests.

Soma, have you done any analysis on this part of the map?

I think that it is not bad for Rome to have two cities north of the capital and one to the south - a total of 4.
(no island city then)

It still lets France and Spain do well at their start.

As of Greece and Persia and barbs.

Yes, I think we should not let Greece take more than one barb city, the rest should go to Persia, especially if now the Arabs have an aggressive start by converting cities, which is also needed on their part...

So I guess, yes, stronger barbs, and if needed, stronger starting Persia might be needed

Barak: use Ctrl-W and add units to the barbs, Persia - I will try, too

 

[Barak]

@ Soma

I will try adding units in my next go-round.

 

[Rhye]

http://rhye.civfanatics.net/civ4/files/RhyesCatapult032.zip


- AI more tolerant to founding if another cities already takes some tiles
- Egypt, Greece and India rebalanced
- Code for spawn of civs rewritten and reorganized, should work better now (please report any error)
- Cutting jungle postponed to Biology

 

[Rhye]

Barak: 843AD is the treaty of Verdun, that separares France from Germany - it's the 1st Reich born, already speaking a German tongue (there has been the high germanic consonant shift that times)

 

[Barak]

Moving Jungle cutting back to Biology is a good move I think. It will curtail Indian expansion and cause new resources to become available later. My only concern would be expansion of new random jungle early in the timeline which could hamper expansion in South and SE asia.

 

[Rhye]

jungle growth should have been disabled

EDIT: no sorry, I've saved the wrong file and it's still on. Will do next time

 

[Barak]

jungle growth should have been disabled (please check if it's not true)

Haven't checked it in the newest version (I'm at work now), only seen it in earlier versions.