[BNW] Rhye's Catapult 2020-06-02

[Rhye]

For example if we take France, do you expect the Napoleonic wars to happen ? If the answer is yes, then I'd suggest totally redesigning France and would suggest some Victory Point/s relating to that, if no then their existing design is probably fine.

no, not to that extent

As a bit of a side thing, I used to find it strange how Aztecs/Inca basically don't interact with anything for a long period of time. I don't know if you can make Mexico big enough, but was thinking maybe including Tzintzuntzan as an independent to spawn alongside the Aztecs. Assuming the Aztecs retain some benefit from a killing units mechanic, then as the player you have a choice of whether to conquer Tzintzuntzan or farm their units.

I checked the location, but Tzintzuntzan is literally 2 tiles from Tenochtitlan

 

[Rhye]

5. Could I ask you again to change some ancient Wonders? I've been thinking: Pyramids bonus would be better to move to the Temple of Artemis, ToA bonus should be moved to the Masoleum, and Masoleum's - to the Pyramids. The Pyramids should be unlocked by the Tradition policy, and ToA and the Masoleum - by Liberty. It would be nice to build the Halicarnassus Masoleum in Halicarnassus, instead of the Pyramids.

I'd prefer not to touch something's that's already working if I don't have a very good reason

A map suggestions: you don't need to weaken Egypt and Babylon any more. I removed those marshes from Nile Delta, placed flood plants on the tile with marble, and added a salt resource in the desert in Egypt. In Babylon I placed marble and stone resources on flood plants tiles, like in your Civ IV mode. And I also placed wheat resources on flood plants tiles, one in Egypt and one in Babylon. And nothing terrible happened - they were just a mediocre civs.

I'm very careful with that too. "when you give one finger, they take the whole arm". It's very easy to make them superpowers

Could you rescale cultural requirements for adopting new policies? Playing Greece, I closed Liberty, Honour, Patronage and Tradition before I entered Medieval era. That's not healthy. By the way, Greece unique power rarely works in the mod, so that bug could be a very strong unique power for them.

Could you explain how exactly to fix this?

 

[Rhye]

A compromise could be:
- units cannot heal without the resource
- units don't need iron/horses/aluminium to attack at full strength
For coal, oil, uranium, I would say you need it to attack at full strength from a roleplay perspective, from a gameplay perspective idk.

do you or anybody knows in which files are these settings?

 

[Rhye]

Spoiler!
Persian stability map, made by PiR's lovely Atlas.
I'm planning to include the atlas with the release.

 

[the_roof]

do you really think so?
Ancient and Classical eras are almost double length than standard civ5. Have you tried later civs to see if you feel that it also ends soon?

Playing Rome, I started Punic Wars in the first century AD. By this time I should control the whole Mediterranean. I gave myself Sailing on start, and by this time I just discovered Optics, built monuments-barracks-granaries in my first cities, and built fleet big enough to fight Carthage. I'm not complaining - that was huge fun, I'm going to do this again. It's just a nostalgia - in RFC 4 I could see the great Roman Empire for a couple of centuries, and in RFC 5 I start the war with Arabs when I just finish building the Empire. And I had almost the same feeling playing Greece.
By the way, could you force Greek AI to build cities on the Black Sea coast and in Minor Asia?

 

[the_roof]

I'd prefer not to touch something's that's already working if I don't have a very good reason

When you play Egypt, you don't need the Pyramids, but you do need the Masoleums bonus. Same with Greece - you don't need the Masoleum, but you definetly need the Pyramids. Just swap their reqirements and bonuses, if it's not too hard - gameplay will not change at all. But it will help a player to immerse into the atmosphere of the game.

I'm very careful with that too. "when you give one finger, they take the whole arm". It's very easy to make them superpowers

Just try, we'll test and see. Right now it's almost impossible to play Egypt - you cann't even built Aleksandria because of the marshes! But with the changes, Babilon wasn't a superpower in my games. I'll test it several times to make you sure.

Could you explain how exactly to fix this?

When I play Egypt, I need 25 culture points to adopt the first Social Policy, 30 for a second SP, 60 for a third SP and so on. But when I start a Greece or Rome game, I need only 5 culture points for a first SP, 5 for a second and 15 for a third. And it breaks the game mechanics.

 

[Rhye]

Playing Rome, I started Punic Wars in the first century AD. By this time I should control the whole Mediterranean. I gave myself Sailing on start, and by this time I just discovered Optics, built monuments-barracks-granaries in my first cities, and built fleet big enough to fight Carthage. I'm not complaining - that was huge fun, I'm going to do this again. It's just a nostalgia - in RFC 4 I could see the great Roman Empire for a couple of centuries, and in RFC 5 I start the war with Arabs when I just finish building the Empire. And I had almost the same feeling playing Greece.
By the way, could you force Greek AI to build cities on the Black Sea coast and in Minor Asia?

753BC to 476AD,
in Civ4 RFC was 83 turns
in Civ5 BNW is 50 turns
In Civ5 RFC is 133 turns

So it's explicitly made extra-large. I wonder if there's an issues with units and cities cost?
Could you confirm with the length of other eras?

 

[dagriggstar]

How are victory points going to work ? Is there a "target" amount to win ? Or will people play a game the entire way through and the civ with the most (may not be alive) wins ?
I like the idea of each civ having a goal and for every turn that civ is "achieving" it's goal it gains +1 victory point. Sort of like a beat the high score situation. I don't know if it's possible, but like you play as an ancient civ, set a score, then a medieval civ and try to beat yourself, then a modern civ and still have the same challenge.

 

[the_roof]

753BC to 476AD,
in Civ4 RFC was 83 turns
in Civ5 BNW is 50 turns
In Civ5 RFC is 133 turns

So it's explicitly made extra-large. I wonder if there's an issues with units and cities cost?
Could you confirm with the length of other eras?

Played Germany and England. Other eras can be shorter. By the way, Korea is broken - they discovered an industrial era technology in 1000 AD. You should do something with the Korean unique power, or remove it from game.

 

[Rhye]

Played Germany and England. Other eras can be shorter.

can you specify in particular which phase seems short:
- from 3000 BC to the spawn of Greece and Phoenicia
- from Greece/Phoenicia to Rome/Persia
- from Rome/Persia to Byzantium/Huns
- from Byzantium/Huns to European civs

also Medieval, Renaissance, Industrial, Atomic, Information, are they all okay?

 

[Rhye]

By the way, Korea is broken - they discovered an industrial era technology in 1000 AD. You should do something with the Korean unique power, or remove it from game.

this is surprising because I fixed the snowballing effect once already. I guess the unique power has to be replaced.

 

[the_roof]

can you specify in particular which phase seems short:
- from 3000 BC to the spawn of Greece and Phoenicia
- from Greece/Phoenicia to Rome/Persia
- from Rome/Persia to Byzantium/Huns
- from Byzantium/Huns to European civs

also Medieval, Renaissance, Industrial, Atomic, Information, are they all okay?

From Rome to Byzantium, that's when it all happens - Aleksandr and August.
Medieval and Renaissance are ok, or maybe could be even shorter. Industrial - I'll tell you tomorrow.

 

[the_roof]

this is surprising because I fixed the snowballing effect once already. I guess the unique power has to be replaced.

can you specify in particular which phase seems short:
- from 3000 BC to the spawn of Greece and Phoenicia
- from Greece/Phoenicia to Rome/Persia
- from Rome/Persia to Byzantium/Huns
- from Byzantium/Huns to European civs

also Medieval, Renaissance, Industrial, Atomic, Information, are they all okay?

By the way, is it possible to make the plague not to kill your units, but just wound them? And make a quarantine button and a vaccination project, maybe after biology?

 

[Rhye]

By the way, is it possible to make the plague not to kill your units, but just wound them? And make a quarantine button and a vaccination project, maybe after biology?

nah. It's done on purpose.
Units killed, map cleared, no complexity added.

 

[MAHRana]

Given that city districts can be (and have been) modded out of Civ 6, and apart from that there isn't too much difference between it and Civ V, do you think it would be a pretty simple task to "port" this over?

 

[Rhye]

Given that city districts can be (and have been) modded out of Civ 6, and apart from that there isn't too much difference between it and Civ V, do you think it would be a pretty simple task to "port" this over?

uhm...it should be relatively easy.
Pls also consider that I greatly understimated the amount of work needed for this mod. I thought a couple of months for Catapult and a few more for the complete version. It's already 1 year now.

 

[MAHRana]

uhm...it should be relatively easy.
Pls also consider that I greatly understimated the amount of work needed for this mod. I thought a couple of months for Catapult and a few more for the complete version. It's already 1 year now.

Sure, I was thinking maybe the community might pick up on this

 

[PiR]

Playing Rome, I started Punic Wars in the first century AD. By this time I should control the whole Mediterranean. I gave myself Sailing on start, and by this time I just discovered Optics, built monuments-barracks-granaries in my first cities, and built fleet big enough to fight Carthage. I'm not complaining - that was huge fun, I'm going to do this again. It's just a nostalgia - in RFC 4 I could see the great Roman Empire for a couple of centuries, and in RFC 5 I start the war with Arabs when I just finish building the Empire. And I had almost the same feeling playing Greece.

It is true that it was faster to build a huge Roman Empire in Civ 4 - RFC. I see multiple factors:

• many cities spawned in Gaul, Spain, even London, and without always a unit to defend them
• with the combat system of Civ 4, any city could be conquered in 1 turn
• the great wall could keep barbs out, which means you could focus your troops on conquering rather than defending (except for a few celts)
• more technologies were given to Rome at start (fishing boats and galleys for example)
• slavery helped rush production
• you could get extra army at start if a civ refused to give independence to a city in your flip zone

Maybe the cost of settlers can be adjusted in some cases to allow for fast expansion. I started a game with USA and it announced 40+ turns to build a settlers, when the buildings/other units had low costs (2-3 turns).

I'm wondering, what slowed you down to expand, except techs?

 

[Rhye]

why do Pyramids require liberty??

 

[PiR]

excellent question, I never understood that
each civic comes with benefit when we start them and complete them, but some wonders are not so related to the name of the civic...