Rhye
's and Fall creator
chutchy did you see my mail?
Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded
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Chukchi Husky
Lone Wolf
I have read the e-mail you sent.
Rhye
's and Fall creator
and so...? Do you want to join the list?
btw, the map is good. Some quick suggestions:
-add malta
-retouch iberian and british coasts
-Berlin and Vienna seem too close compared to real.
btw, the map is good. Some quick suggestions:
-add malta
-retouch iberian and british coasts
-Berlin and Vienna seem too close compared to real.
Chukchi Husky
Lone Wolf
I'll join the list.
The problem with Vienna is that I drew the mountain ranges in the Balkans and the Alps too large, so it pushes countries north. Germany, Poland, and the Czech Republic were made smaller.. I made Wales and South West England smaller, made Ireland a bit larger, and changed the Portuguese coast a bit. The map is supposed to be curved, which is why Britain and Spain are distorted.
The problem with Vienna is that I drew the mountain ranges in the Balkans and the Alps too large, so it pushes countries north. Germany, Poland, and the Czech Republic were made smaller.. I made Wales and South West England smaller, made Ireland a bit larger, and changed the Portuguese coast a bit. The map is supposed to be curved, which is why Britain and Spain are distorted.
Rhye
's and Fall creator
Why don't you use the map tweaker? It's the perfect tool for this kind of things: it can shift, copy and paste. Remember to save uncompressed biqs and remove the starting locations before editing with it.
You'll find it in the utilities forum
You'll find it in the utilities forum
Chukchi Husky
Lone Wolf
I'll try that.
Blasphemous
Graulich
Rhye, I think at least in the xpack Flak should need Motorized Transport and not Advanced Flight... It makes more sense for a nation to be able to defend itself from planes even if it hasn't built planes yet, and this outweighs the fact that nations will be building Flaks before a single bomber has been built... In addition, I would say that Flight symbolizes a later stage than the very beginning of flight, and that there was already a need for some form of defense against aircrafts before biplanes started showing up.
Rhye
's and Fall creator
Keep in mind that some techs will change.
Adv.flight was a mistake. They can go in flight or mot.transportation or mass production (where the zeppelin is)
So the question is...are you sure that flaks existed before the invention of biplanes? Were there flaks to shot baloons?
Adv.flight was a mistake. They can go in flight or mot.transportation or mass production (where the zeppelin is)
So the question is...are you sure that flaks existed before the invention of biplanes? Were there flaks to shot baloons?
Blasphemous
Graulich
No, I'm actually pretty sure the Flak was not around in WWI, but I suppose it represents earlier anti-air weapons as well. If the Zeppelin is in Mass Production then put the Flak in there as well. Or perhaps add a new unit there to represent the earliest anti-air weapons, if you can find info on them.Rhye said:
Chukchi Husky
Lone Wolf
Antiaircraft weapons development began as early as 1910, when the airplane first became an effective weapon. In World War I, field artillery pieces up to about 90 mm (3.5 inches) in calibre were converted to antiaircraft use by mountings that enabled them to fire nearly vertically. Aiming methods were inadequate, however, and in the interwar decades great progress was made in the development of range finders, searchlights, time fuzes, and gunlaying mechanisms to help artillery pieces hit the rapidly moving targets presented by aircraft.
In World War II, rapid-firing and automatic antiaircraft guns were introduced, radar was applied to target tracking, and tiny radio-wave proximity fuzes exploded the ammunition as it approached the target. Against dive-bombers and low-level attack aircraft, a 40-millimetre (1.5-inch) gun, first produced by the Bofors firm of Sweden, was widely used by the British and U.S. forces. It fired 2-pound (0.9-kilogram) projectiles to a height of 2 miles (3.2 km) at 120 rounds per minute. The Soviets based their 37-millimetre weapon on this gun. Heavier antiaircraft guns, up to 120 mm, were used against high-flying bombers. The most effective of these was the German 88-millimetre Fliegerabwehrkanone; its abbreviated name, flak, became a universal term for antiaircraft fire.
In World War II, rapid-firing and automatic antiaircraft guns were introduced, radar was applied to target tracking, and tiny radio-wave proximity fuzes exploded the ammunition as it approached the target. Against dive-bombers and low-level attack aircraft, a 40-millimetre (1.5-inch) gun, first produced by the Bofors firm of Sweden, was widely used by the British and U.S. forces. It fired 2-pound (0.9-kilogram) projectiles to a height of 2 miles (3.2 km) at 120 rounds per minute. The Soviets based their 37-millimetre weapon on this gun. Heavier antiaircraft guns, up to 120 mm, were used against high-flying bombers. The most effective of these was the German 88-millimetre Fliegerabwehrkanone; its abbreviated name, flak, became a universal term for antiaircraft fire.
Blasphemous
Graulich
What he said. xDChukchi_Husky said:
Sounds like an early anti air unit called Anti-Air Artillery available with Mass Production, with stats of 0/3/1 and aa defense of 1 that costs the same as regular Artillery (meaning it's overpriced because it's used differently from its original purpouse) would fit in just fine, mebbe with limited normal bombard to balance it out with the high price and make it a bit more useful. It would at least give a fighting chance against the first few nations with bombers.
This mod sounds like the best ever; I'd love to play it but have been unable to so far. I unzipped the 4 newest files to Civ/conquests/scenarios and RoC showed up in my list of scenarios. But it crashed when it was uunable to find some kind of ancient temple(?). I have C3C 1.22; what am I doing wrong? Thanx for any help.
Rhye
's and Fall creator
SirDuck said:
When did you download the files? More than two days ago? In that case you need to download them again, I'm sorry.
In fact I replaced the four files 2 days ago because they contained wrong folders. Let me knoe if that isn't the case: I'll try to install the mod myself from the files and see what's wrong
Blasphemous said:
If the first ever was built in 1910, then it must go to flight (the first airplane was built in 1903 iirc)
BTW I'm a unit creator now! I'm creating a balloon unit, an advanced scout. So the Zeppelin will replace it instead of the bomber
Aeon221
Lord of the Cheese Helmet
(finally realized my mistakes... ;p)
I left all my favorite history books at home, so this is just what I have in my head right now. I will try and go through all the units, but I really do not know enough about game intricacies to suggest changes in resources and whatnot. What I am saying here is based not on game balance, but on my knowledge of history, so take it however you want ;p
Concentrating on the Crossbow... it seems weaker than it should be on the attack. I know this will seem a bit odd for the game, but why not make the pike a 3/2 and the Crossbow a 2/3? It will make them a perfect combo that basically equals the legion when used in conjunction. It will certainly give people a reason to go combigned (and therefore logical) arms, rather than simply mass produce the pikes.
Riflemen attack strength is too high; if you look at the Crimean War (1850s) or the American Civil War (1860s) you will notice that they are simply not nearly as good on the assault as they are on the defensive. Think about it; an advancing soldier cannot aim as well, cannot take cover as easily (considering the formations used for advancement at the time) and cannot reload as well as a soldier on the defensive, who is likely behind cover and lying down.
Pickett's Charge vs. Chamberlain's holding of Little Round Top.
Clearly, a far more effective defender than attacker, which is why you should leave it at 4/6
Another suggestion is the weakening of Cav. Arty was WAYY more important, and by the time of the 1800s (and really even the 1700s and before) Cavalry was already useless in direct assaults. It was almost entirely a scouting and harrasment unit, useful mostly for hitting an enemy on the run or burning his stuff.
Even in classical times, cavalry was pretty shoddy stuff. The Romans easily crushed the Kataphracti (means ovens I believe, I know for certain that Roman troops did call them that, refers to their heavy armor) of the Persians, finding that it was the light cavalry that did the most damage, as they were able to disengage and reengage easily.
Light cavalry has always beaten infantry, and heavy cavalry has only ever been useful against unformed or undisciplined troops (main reason why Roman Legions only had a 600 horse detachment with each 4-6 thousand man legion), or as a flanking unit in the age of the lance (Alexander of Macedon used his cavalry in just such a fashion).
This is why I am pushing for a reduction of Cav power from 6 to 4 (I will leave the other horsemen alone, but I have nothing but contempt for cavalry in a combat situation), and an increase in the power of artillery in general (cannons and up) to make assaults more dependent upon it.
As Napoleon said, "God favors the side with the heaviest artillery"
Just as a suggestion, why not give all combat vessels the ability to hold one unit, up until the metal kind? One frequently reads of British Marines being dispatched from this Frigate, or American soldiers from that 76 Gunner, but cannot do so in Civ. There has always been a marine complement to warships (and I am 98% certain that there are still marines detached to all warships in America, although not many on all of them) which was capable of landing and attacking or whatnot. Just a suggestion...
I agree that the Legion deserves a hit point upgrade, simply to respect their massive advantage over contemporaries in terms of training during the Late Republic and early Imperial period.
Also, I would suggest making the Immortal extremely cheap, as the Persians were renowned for the size of their army (Pre-Alexander times), and as this seems to be the primary way to give them a huge flavor army, then it would make sense for them to have a great number of them.
Also, in regards to the Tomahawk warriors... can't we find something a little more Native American in name? I mean seriously, it seems a bit on the degratory side. We have traditional names for things like the Chinese Oromo horseman (something I do not know enough about to decide the quality of, but I like it WAYY better than Rider for a name ;p) and then there is this Tomahawk warrior... If we cannot find something, I guess we have to use it, but I am sure there is SOMETHING out there? Also, can we get rid of the Iroquois in favor of the Cherokee? Far more developed people, who Westernized rather quickly, developing a consitution, weekly paper, and effectively would have been integrated as a developed state were it not for the racist bastard Andrew Jackson.... well... anyway I think they have a far greater right to be in the game than the Iroquois.
I have to go to sports, but I will be back for more later tonight!
Oh, and I really want to beg for a hit point bonus for the Samurai! If there was ever a better trained warrior in existence more deserving of that bonus, please tell me of it!
I left all my favorite history books at home, so this is just what I have in my head right now. I will try and go through all the units, but I really do not know enough about game intricacies to suggest changes in resources and whatnot. What I am saying here is based not on game balance, but on my knowledge of history, so take it however you want ;p
Concentrating on the Crossbow... it seems weaker than it should be on the attack. I know this will seem a bit odd for the game, but why not make the pike a 3/2 and the Crossbow a 2/3? It will make them a perfect combo that basically equals the legion when used in conjunction. It will certainly give people a reason to go combigned (and therefore logical) arms, rather than simply mass produce the pikes.
Riflemen attack strength is too high; if you look at the Crimean War (1850s) or the American Civil War (1860s) you will notice that they are simply not nearly as good on the assault as they are on the defensive. Think about it; an advancing soldier cannot aim as well, cannot take cover as easily (considering the formations used for advancement at the time) and cannot reload as well as a soldier on the defensive, who is likely behind cover and lying down.
Pickett's Charge vs. Chamberlain's holding of Little Round Top.
Clearly, a far more effective defender than attacker, which is why you should leave it at 4/6
Another suggestion is the weakening of Cav. Arty was WAYY more important, and by the time of the 1800s (and really even the 1700s and before) Cavalry was already useless in direct assaults. It was almost entirely a scouting and harrasment unit, useful mostly for hitting an enemy on the run or burning his stuff.
Even in classical times, cavalry was pretty shoddy stuff. The Romans easily crushed the Kataphracti (means ovens I believe, I know for certain that Roman troops did call them that, refers to their heavy armor) of the Persians, finding that it was the light cavalry that did the most damage, as they were able to disengage and reengage easily.
Light cavalry has always beaten infantry, and heavy cavalry has only ever been useful against unformed or undisciplined troops (main reason why Roman Legions only had a 600 horse detachment with each 4-6 thousand man legion), or as a flanking unit in the age of the lance (Alexander of Macedon used his cavalry in just such a fashion).
This is why I am pushing for a reduction of Cav power from 6 to 4 (I will leave the other horsemen alone, but I have nothing but contempt for cavalry in a combat situation), and an increase in the power of artillery in general (cannons and up) to make assaults more dependent upon it.
As Napoleon said, "God favors the side with the heaviest artillery"
Just as a suggestion, why not give all combat vessels the ability to hold one unit, up until the metal kind? One frequently reads of British Marines being dispatched from this Frigate, or American soldiers from that 76 Gunner, but cannot do so in Civ. There has always been a marine complement to warships (and I am 98% certain that there are still marines detached to all warships in America, although not many on all of them) which was capable of landing and attacking or whatnot. Just a suggestion...
I agree that the Legion deserves a hit point upgrade, simply to respect their massive advantage over contemporaries in terms of training during the Late Republic and early Imperial period.
Also, I would suggest making the Immortal extremely cheap, as the Persians were renowned for the size of their army (Pre-Alexander times), and as this seems to be the primary way to give them a huge flavor army, then it would make sense for them to have a great number of them.
Also, in regards to the Tomahawk warriors... can't we find something a little more Native American in name? I mean seriously, it seems a bit on the degratory side. We have traditional names for things like the Chinese Oromo horseman (something I do not know enough about to decide the quality of, but I like it WAYY better than Rider for a name ;p) and then there is this Tomahawk warrior... If we cannot find something, I guess we have to use it, but I am sure there is SOMETHING out there? Also, can we get rid of the Iroquois in favor of the Cherokee? Far more developed people, who Westernized rather quickly, developing a consitution, weekly paper, and effectively would have been integrated as a developed state were it not for the racist bastard Andrew Jackson.... well... anyway I think they have a far greater right to be in the game than the Iroquois.
I have to go to sports, but I will be back for more later tonight!
Oh, and I really want to beg for a hit point bonus for the Samurai! If there was ever a better trained warrior in existence more deserving of that bonus, please tell me of it!
Blasphemous
Graulich
Rhye, the real question is what level of technology a nation would have needed to be able to slap together a makeshift anti-air gun when faced with an enemy superior in technology. The more advanced nations will reach advanced flight before the medium nations will reach flight, meaning if you put the first anti-air weapon in Flight, only advanced nations will stand a chance against advanced nations, when in reality even a nation that hasn't yet started producing aircrafts will manage to at least improvise anti-air defenses if the need be.
Maybe you can just give aa1 to regular Artillery? It won't make a difference before your enemy has flight, and when they do you can use your artillery to fend them off.
Maybe you can just give aa1 to regular Artillery? It won't make a difference before your enemy has flight, and when they do you can use your artillery to fend them off.
Rhye
's and Fall creator
OK for one hp to legion and samurai, and to an upgrade to artillery and to lower to 5/6/1 the riflemen.
About the flak...both the solutions proposed by Blasphemous are OK. I'm still not sure of which of the two.
The Oromo horseman is Ethiopian! It is not "Otomo" (japanese).
I remember of the problem of the name for the Iroquois UU, when I was making 2.0....that was the best I could find. If you have something better I'd be happy to change.
The Iroquois have thier leaderhead. A change to Cherokee should be biased carefully. I think I'll put it together with Poland in a future civ-pack (for the X-pack).
About the flak...both the solutions proposed by Blasphemous are OK. I'm still not sure of which of the two.
Aeon221 said:
The Oromo horseman is Ethiopian! It is not "Otomo" (japanese).
I remember of the problem of the name for the Iroquois UU, when I was making 2.0....that was the best I could find. If you have something better I'd be happy to change.
The Iroquois have thier leaderhead. A change to Cherokee should be biased carefully. I think I'll put it together with Poland in a future civ-pack (for the X-pack).
Aeon221
Lord of the Cheese Helmet
OOOOOPS did NOT mean to say Oromo sorry! hahahaha and I was complaining about the misanthropism and committed one hahahahaha ;p
But you got the point, even if I did make a total moof of it ;p
Also, how do you intend to get the Kamikaze into carriers? Are you going to let Carriers carry cruise missiles?
The draft should come in the ancient age, considering that late Republican Rome had already established conscription, and it was a common practice in a disorganized way for a long time before and after.
Tercio is a beautiful addition, kudos to you for integrating one!
Saracen Bowman => Saracen Bowmen
Keeping with how everything else is.
Sorry I skipped a few hundred units by accident haha
Phoenicians were famous for their fast, sleek, and beautiful ships. They were absolutely amazing ships, therefore their Bireme certainly should not just be better curraughs, setting the standard that the Athenians matched much later on.
I do not know much about Korean history (I will try and learn some more about them sometime), so is the turtle ship a real thing? Totally curious about that, as I remember it from AoE2 and have always wanted to know that in a general way.
Ok I looked up longbowmen, and here is what I found in summarized form:
evolved in 12th cent Wales
Became widely used in late 14th, early 15th among English armies
Died out completely in mid-16th b/c of the die out of the yeomanry lifestyle in England.
Superior to the contemporary gunweapons, but difficult to utilize because of the limited number of available bowmen skilled, or even capable of using it.
I advocate giving it rather good stats, but making it require a pop point to be indicative of this. Also, make it so that it is slightly better than the unit it "upgrades" into, so as to also simulate the fact that the longbow was superior to contemporary weapons. This way someone who wants to use it will be stuck with the same problems as the English: incredibly good weapon, few capable of using it, only alternative is inferior.
Looks like either you got bored of the last one, or simply are against weaker cav. They used that in the TGW scenario/mod, and I thought it was a brilliant addition; makes tons of sense (think Charge of the Light Brigade); the better ranged weapons get, the worse cav becomes!
Dude, Rhye, the sheer number of units added is INCREDIBLE!! I hope I am not coming off as a "hater" because of all my yammering, b/c I am simply... well dumbstruck is OBVIOUSLY not the right word ;p... astonished, impressed, jealous of this sheer creativity! Doing my best to help ;p
Have to start on dinner and hw, so I will continue the attack later ;p
And, as always
THANK YOU RHYE!!!
But you got the point, even if I did make a total moof of it ;p
Also, how do you intend to get the Kamikaze into carriers? Are you going to let Carriers carry cruise missiles?
The draft should come in the ancient age, considering that late Republican Rome had already established conscription, and it was a common practice in a disorganized way for a long time before and after.
Tercio is a beautiful addition, kudos to you for integrating one!
Saracen Bowman => Saracen Bowmen
Keeping with how everything else is.
Sorry I skipped a few hundred units by accident haha
Phoenicians were famous for their fast, sleek, and beautiful ships. They were absolutely amazing ships, therefore their Bireme certainly should not just be better curraughs, setting the standard that the Athenians matched much later on.
I do not know much about Korean history (I will try and learn some more about them sometime), so is the turtle ship a real thing? Totally curious about that, as I remember it from AoE2 and have always wanted to know that in a general way.
Ok I looked up longbowmen, and here is what I found in summarized form:
evolved in 12th cent Wales
Became widely used in late 14th, early 15th among English armies
Died out completely in mid-16th b/c of the die out of the yeomanry lifestyle in England.
Superior to the contemporary gunweapons, but difficult to utilize because of the limited number of available bowmen skilled, or even capable of using it.
I advocate giving it rather good stats, but making it require a pop point to be indicative of this. Also, make it so that it is slightly better than the unit it "upgrades" into, so as to also simulate the fact that the longbow was superior to contemporary weapons. This way someone who wants to use it will be stuck with the same problems as the English: incredibly good weapon, few capable of using it, only alternative is inferior.
Looks like either you got bored of the last one, or simply are against weaker cav. They used that in the TGW scenario/mod, and I thought it was a brilliant addition; makes tons of sense (think Charge of the Light Brigade); the better ranged weapons get, the worse cav becomes!
Dude, Rhye, the sheer number of units added is INCREDIBLE!! I hope I am not coming off as a "hater" because of all my yammering, b/c I am simply... well dumbstruck is OBVIOUSLY not the right word ;p... astonished, impressed, jealous of this sheer creativity! Doing my best to help ;p
Have to start on dinner and hw, so I will continue the attack later ;p
And, as always
THANK YOU RHYE!!!
Blasphemous
Graulich
RE Longbowmen, I agree with Aeon... Their stats should be amazing on the defense (with a very high defensive bombard and perhaps even range-1 bombard since their range was huge and they peppered enemies before their own troops charged on) and very bad on the offense (unless you consider offensive bombard as offense.) Also I think they should be draftable, because they were historically pretty much drafted for the most part. Anyone capable of using them was drafted iirc. Drafting has its own high cost in happiness so it should not be too unbalancing, even if normally building a longbowman would require pop as well.
I was thinking, maybe you should add a large world war era immobile Big Gun... Pretty big range (say 4 or 5), very high bombard rating, low ROF (1 or 2), and immobile with the ability to rebase. It could be used to station in border cities and soften enemy lines and offensives. This type of unit made a big difference in the world wars.
Also I would say the addition of a machinegunner unit would be in order, along with a Mortar unit... If designed correctly they could highly diversify late industrial and early modern combat.
(All regarding Xpack of course.)
And I'll second Aeon on this one:
THANKS FOR THE GREAT MOD.
I was thinking, maybe you should add a large world war era immobile Big Gun... Pretty big range (say 4 or 5), very high bombard rating, low ROF (1 or 2), and immobile with the ability to rebase. It could be used to station in border cities and soften enemy lines and offensives. This type of unit made a big difference in the world wars.
Also I would say the addition of a machinegunner unit would be in order, along with a Mortar unit... If designed correctly they could highly diversify late industrial and early modern combat.
(All regarding Xpack of course.)
And I'll second Aeon on this one:
THANKS FOR THE GREAT MOD.
Rhye
's and Fall creator
Thanks to you 
Without all of you incouraging me to make the mod better and better, I'd have abandoned the mod in its earliest release. Keep posting, so that we (we, not only I: I will mention your names in the readme as the "developing team") can give the community the best mod!
Now, some quick answers (my friends are waiting for me for an Age of Mythology game):
-> the pop cost would harm to England. I can do an increased cost, not a pop cost. Currently they are 1/4/1+greater bombard, while the saracen bowman (Bowman! why Bowmen?) is 2/4/1 iirc. I should make these 2 units quite different.
-> I agree to raise something of the phoenician bireme
-> I did not intend to get the Kamikaze into carriers. I wanted them to make suicide attacks. But now that I think, I forgot to see the WWII pacific conquest stats. I'll copy the flags from there.
-> about the big gun...what is it? Artillery?
->BTW do you like the idea of the baloon? I'm drawing it myself
I'm sorry, I did not understand what you mean.
Without all of you incouraging me to make the mod better and better, I'd have abandoned the mod in its earliest release. Keep posting, so that we (we, not only I: I will mention your names in the readme as the "developing team") can give the community the best mod!
Now, some quick answers (my friends are waiting for me for an Age of Mythology game):
-> the pop cost would harm to England. I can do an increased cost, not a pop cost. Currently they are 1/4/1+greater bombard, while the saracen bowman (Bowman! why Bowmen?) is 2/4/1 iirc. I should make these 2 units quite different.
-> I agree to raise something of the phoenician bireme
-> I did not intend to get the Kamikaze into carriers. I wanted them to make suicide attacks. But now that I think, I forgot to see the WWII pacific conquest stats. I'll copy the flags from there.
-> about the big gun...what is it? Artillery?
->BTW do you like the idea of the baloon? I'm drawing it myself
I'm sorry, I did not understand what you mean.
Blasphemous
Graulich
So no pop cost for the longbowman, but draftability, so they at least have the choice.
Perhaps Kamikaze should just have a very very big operational range but no carriability?
Yeah, by big gun I mean artillery... There were large immobile artillery pieces that could hit targets far away as early as WWI and they were further developed till WWII.
I like the idea of the balloon, but I recall DyP having such a unit with an appropriate animation, so why draw it yourself?
Perhaps Kamikaze should just have a very very big operational range but no carriability?
Yeah, by big gun I mean artillery... There were large immobile artillery pieces that could hit targets far away as early as WWI and they were further developed till WWII.
I like the idea of the balloon, but I recall DyP having such a unit with an appropriate animation, so why draw it yourself?
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