Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

[Blasphemous]

I had some ideas, I hope you like them.
To finally eradicate obsolete units:

1) riflemen again without saltpeter (so that it can be built in colonies far from the capital), but leave cavalry with saltpeter
2) replace upgrades:
longbowman->guerrilla with longbowman->rifleman;
med.infantry ->guerrilla with med.infantry->rifleman;
berserk->guerrilla with berserk->marine (they haven't bombard ability, and both can make anph.attakcs)
rifleman->infantry with rifleman->guerrilla
flintlock inf.->rifleman with flintlock inf->infantry
this would fill the large gap between medieval units and guerrilla with an early industrial guerilla-type (no resources): rifleman; and connect the resources line flintlock inf. and infantry

Excellent idea, go ahead!

 

[Asclepius]

...To finally eradicate obsolete units:

flintlock inf.->rifleman with flintlock inf->infantry....

I don't think this makes any sense. Flintlock should still upgrade to Rifleman before Infantry come along. Otherwise Flintlock will still be around for too long after Nationalism period and the step flintlock > infantry is too large. I like the other ideas though.

 

[ibcoltscrew]

Yes, it's just a game. But we are Civfanatics!

But...one more question: is it only in my games or it has happened in your games too, that AI doesn't build Infantry and Tanks, and american colonies are defended by spearmen?

In my game, most of the time the american are defended by spearman or pikeman like you says but about the tanks, everything seem to be ok, they use it like i do.

 

[Lachlan]

Make upgrade Rhye

I want test your new timeline

 

[Iztvan]

I had some ideas, I hope you like them.
To finally eradicate obsolete units:

1) riflemen again without saltpeter (so that it can be built in colonies far from the capital), but leave cavalry with saltpeter

100%

2) replace upgrades:
longbowman->guerrilla with longbowman->rifleman;
med.infantry ->guerrilla with med.infantry->rifleman;
berserk->guerrilla with berserk->marine (they haven't bombard ability, and both can make anph.attakcs)
rifleman->infantry with rifleman->guerrilla
flintlock inf.->rifleman with flintlock inf->infantry
this would fill the large gap between medieval units and guerrilla with an early industrial guerilla-type (no resources): rifleman; and connect the resources line flintlock inf. and infantry

&

Why?

because we won't have "Longbows & Railroads" as in normal Civ.

for three reasons:
1) Longbow & Medinf both have "Attack" strategy ticked, while rifleman is a defensive unit. So the ai will be using riflemen upgraded from them in a defensive role.
2) We'll still have Flintlock infantry at the same time as Riflemen. Much better than earlier, but still ahistorical.
3) Berserks will still be riding railroad to the port, embarking on oil- or steamdriven transports and attacking coastal cities defended by riflemen and infantry... Speaking as a skandinavian, I realy think berserkers should come earlier, as a uu version of the swordsman or medieval infantry.

 

[Rhye]

Each solution has pros and cons.
vote please for:

1) everything as it is: already balanced by Firaxis, but with "Longbows & Railroads": a great gap between medieval foot units and guerrilla

2) the changes i said: there would be no gap and there would still be 2 lines of upgrades: one with resource units and the other with free units. The concept is OK: med.infantry, riflemen and guerrilla in common have the poor training. Problems? Flintlock and Riflemen would coexists (but, this happened for some time, with the first victories of French republic). I think there is no problem with attack and defense tags, because rifleman is both O & D

3) all the changes above except the swap flintock-to-infantry. Still no "Longbows & Railroads". Cons? The offensive-to-defensive is always there (but it's not a problem because they are O and D), and the major problem is: there would be only one unit upgrades line. So, everything would converge to riflemen, which would lead to infantry. No unit upgrades to guerrilla.


My vote is 2. Sooner you vote, sooner I post the patch (which IMO deserves the 2.5 title: it contains lots of fixes, new timeline, major changes to the map made with MapTweaker, revision of units obsolescence)

 

[Rhye]

Berserks will still be riding railroad to the port, embarking on oil- or steamdriven transports and attacking coastal cities defended by riflemen and infantry... Speaking as a skandinavian, I realy think berserkers should come earlier, as a uu version of the swordsman or medieval infantry.

I think that too. Attack 6 is too much and they have nothing to do with longbowmen. They should replace Med. Inf with a 5/2/1 anphibious. But that wouldn't solve their presence in industrial times.

 

[Jaybe]

Each solution has pros and cons.
vote please for:
...

I would vote 3, 1, with 2 being last.
I personally have longbows upgrade to flintlocks (but flintlocks with 5 attack) with the lines converging. Riflemen might be mediocre in training (American civil war) but they could also be highly trained (Franco-Prussian war of 1870's).

But pay me no mind because I'm out on the fringe: my last two v2.3 games had cheaper defensive units with standard civ infantry-type attack strengths, and standard-cost (or expensive) offensive infantry-types with attack strengths equal or almost-equal to defense (e.g, spears 2.2, rifles 6.6, infantry 9.10). Fortified units get 50% defense bonus. ... And there is no artillery -- it's a player cheat.

 

[Iztvan]

I think that too. Attack 6 is too much and they have nothing to do with longbowmen. They should replace Med. Inf with a 5/2/1 anphibious. But that wouldn't solve their presence in industrial times.

Do that, and I might actually be able to bring myself to playing the Scandinavians. Imagine that, someone who won't play his own Civ because the uu is wrong...

In my opinion: go ahead with option "2". We'll try it out and see if we like it. It has the least changes to the original game, and keeps the design philosophy of two unit lines for infantry.

In the long run I'd probably prefer an expanded version of "3", keeping offensive and defencive infantry during the flintlock era with:
DEF: Line infantry, 3/5/1
OFF: Grenadiers, 5/3/1

 

[Blasphemous]

My vote is for 2....
I think it fixes more broken logic than it creates.
Rhye, are there any plans underway for a RoC 3.0?
If there is, I would love to help any way I can.

 

[Rhye]

Three votes for 2, one vote for 3 until now.

Please when you vote, specify if you want or not the changes to the berserk: 5/2/1, +10 cost, replaces Med. Inf., requires iron

Version 3.0? We're upgrading step-by-step....but surely there will be a 3.0 with Civ4 next year!

 

[Blasphemous]

At this rate, you'll quickly run out of version numbers... I would advise using three digits after the decimal point from 2.500 and on. Big upgrades should get a leap on the second digit after, small ones get the third, and every time you get to 2.#99 you increase the first digit.

 

[Rhye]

So, do you consider this a big or small upgrade? 2.5 or 2.45?

BTW, vote yes/no for editing the berserk

 

[Iztvan]

Three votes for 2, one vote for 3 until now.

Please when you vote, specify if you want or not the changes to the berserk: 5/2/1, +10 cost, replaces Med. Inf., requires iron

Version 3.0? We're upgrading step-by-step....but surely there will be a 3.0 with Civ4 next year!

Berserk change - yes please!
Or perhaps 4/2/1 amphibious is enough? attack 5 vs pikes def of 3 is powerful.

 

[bjorn]

I must say tho when I had a go at the Vikings by the time I had a few berserkers (keeping in mind the Vikings start among mountains and hills) all the civs around me had musketmen, and the Dutch huge amounts of Swiss Mercenaries. I was able to take 1 Dutch town which cost me nearly all my berserkers.
Id like to see it moved earlier in the techtree, perhaps losing 1 attack point or making it more expensive. I wouldnt handicap it too much though, its not that extremely good.

 

[Rhye]

that's it: 5/2/1, +10 cost, replaces Med. Inf., requires iron


vote: 1,2,3?

 

[ibcoltscrew]

that's it: 5/2/1, +10 cost, replaces Med. Inf., requires iron

vote: 1,2,3?

Vote #2

 

[Rhye]

Enjoy the patch

I'll update the site now

 

[Rhye]

Iztvan, your skills are impressive! I tried to raise difficulty levels in an older patch, but it seems useless. You can reach industrial age in 1500...what other I need to say? Try a crippled civ...


The site is now updated except the screenshots section. Coming soon.

 

[Blasphemous]

So, do you consider this a big or small upgrade? 2.5 or 2.45?

BTW, vote yes/no for editing the berserk

Looks to me like this should be 2.500, and that you should move Berserk to replace Med. Inf or even Swords (4.2.1 and replaces Med Inf as well), since generally speaking the level of technology needed for a Berserker is not the same level that is needed for a foot knight. This would give Scandinavia a very powerful early advantage that would be eliminated very quickly once the other Europeans get far enough ahead.