Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

[Yoda Power]

Ok I tried this mod out. I havent read the whole thread, so I dont know what has already been suggestet, but this is what I came up with:

I see you are using my Fanatic, did you notice that an update has been made with civiliopedia icons?

Shouldn't the Hussar upgrade to Cavalry?

Why dont you add more different resources? You dont have to worry about them showing up since you have them all preplaced anyway. You could also have more specific resources(Rice for asia, Maize for america etc.)

When playing world maps I usually move Chinas starting location and change their capital name to one of their older capitals. This way China expands more like they did in real history. Here is the two best possible locations IMHO:

Xian/Chang'an/Xianyang: X:144 Y:54 (the best from a historical point of view)
Nanking/Nanjing: X:151 Y:59(the best from a realistic expansion point of view)
Ofcause its up to you if you want to change it

Why not change Holy War to Jihad? Thats afterall what it represents.

I dont see a reason to build the Holy War when I can get Knights Templar. They produce a unit each 5 turn both, but the Crusader is better than the Fanatic. I suggest making Holy War produce a Fanatic each 4 turn, but at the same time lower the Fanatics defence to 1. That way they are only offence, which is more realistic, and at the same time creates some difference bewteen Knights Templar and Holy War.

Im not sure I understand your civ choices. You have one good addition, Ethiopia. But at the same time you have both Ottomans and Byzantines, Sumerians and Babylonians. And all those european civs! I suggest you move some of these civs that cant expand properly because they are crammed together, and add some new civs in other parts of the world. Khmer in Indochina and Mali in Africa are my two best suggestions.

Finally the map takes too long to load for my computer so my games werent very long or big, but I really like the way you put the map together, and I would be very happy if you made a 140. 140 or 130 130 version of it. Edit: I might want to add that I get very easy bored, 3 seconds is the longest loading time I can stand.

Oh and did I mention this mod is nice

 

[Rhye]

Originally posted by Iztvan
Rhye -> Do you want more screenshots? I can keep them coming!
I have started a new game as the Spanish, since victory seemed assured for the Austrians. I can keep playing the Austrians for screenshots and playtest if you wish, otherwise I'll try to play the Spanish as a colonial power, and see how it goes and how non-european civs are doing.

Do what you like
I'm more interested in seeing the Spaniards, but don't play with the purpose of making screenshots, play to enjoy yourself and if you have some good screenshots, post them. I don't think I'll make any change to the mod, unless you all find some bad bug.
I begun working on this new version at the beginning of December , so I'm having a vacantion now

 

[Rhye]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
Ok I tried this mod out. I havent read the whole thread, so I dont know what has already been suggestet, but this is what I came up with:

Reading the readme is more important than reading the thread (for now)

Originally posted by Yoda Power
Shouldn't the Hussar upgrade to Cavalry?

Didn't they coexist?

Originally posted by Yoda Power

Why dont you add more different resources? You dont have to worry about them showing up since you have them all preplaced anyway.

? What do you mean? (sorry for my English)

Originally posted by Yoda Power

When playing world maps I usually move Chinas starting location and change their capital name to one of their older capitals. This way China expands more like they did in real history. Here is the two best possible locations IMHO:

Xian/Chang'an/Xianyang: X:144 Y:54 (the best from a historical point of view)
Nanking/Nanjing: X:151 Y:59(the best from a realistic expansion point of view)
Ofcause its up to you if you want to change it

Good ideas. I did that with Ottomans, but there was a problem with them (shared starting location). China right now develops O.K., conquering the regions they rule nowadays. I fear that moving them south may cause Koreans to be in the middle of China and Mongolia, disturbing a possible war between them.
But it's worth a try.

Originally posted by Yoda Power

I dont see a reason to build the Holy War when I can get Knights Templar. They produce a unit each 5 turn both, but the Crusader is better than the Fanatic. I suggest making Holy War produce a Fanatic each 4 turn, but at the same time lower the Fanatics defence to 1. That way they are only offence, which is more realistic, and at the same time creates some difference bewteen Knights Templar and Holy War.

You are right. If I post an update, I'll include this.
BTW, Jihad or Holy War, is the same; I only feared that someone could not understand the first word

Originally posted by Yoda Power

Im not sure I understand your civ choices. You have one good addition, Ethiopia. But at the same time you have both Ottomans and Byzantines, Sumerians and Babylonians. And all those european civs! I suggest you move some of these civs that cant expand properly because they are crammed together, and add some new civs in other parts of the world. Khmer in Indochina and Mali in Africa are my two best suggestions.

The main reason is that I can't find a good leaderhead for those civs. A good UU and KU is needed. If you look in the civilopedia, you'll find that there's no civilopedia entry missing: everything is in its right place like the standard game.
In the readme I wrote why I removed Hittites and Celts: they were the less important civs in the most crowded regions (France/Spain/Rome and Byzantines/Ottomans/Babylonians)

Then, in History happened wars between Ottomans and Byzantines. So why not having them both?
I don't like Sumeria but I've no good replacement
Europe is crowded like in real life but I think I can affort that as long as every civ develops. With this map, I can afford that. I couldn't do that with ANY other map, expecially the Miller's projection maps.
And, to say the truth, I prefer playing with the Portuguese instead of the Khmer. It's a matter of historical importance, too. You can't exclude Byzantium or Ottomans.

Originally posted by Yoda Power

Finally the map takes too long to load for my computer so my games werent very long or big, but I really like the way you put the map together, and I would be very happy if you made a 140. 140 or 130 130 version of it.

what computer have you got??

 

[Yoda Power]

Didn't they coexist?

Yes, but for a playability reason I would make them upgrade.

What do you mean? (sorry for my English)

I mean that in the normal game there is a limit of how many resources that will show up, but since you preplace all your you can add as many as you want.

I fear that moving them south may cause Koreans to be in the middle of China and Mongolia, disturbing a possible war between them.

Well that didn't happen on the other maps I tried it on, but then this map is a bit different.

BTW, Jihad or Holy War, is the same; I only feared that someone could not understand the first word

No they dont Jihad is a muslim holy war, while holy war is more generic.

Then, in History happened wars between Ottomans and Byzantines. So why not having them both?
I don't like Sumeria but I've no good replacement
Europe is crowded like in real life but I think I can affort that as long as every civ develops. With this map, I can afford that. I couldn't do that with ANY other map, expecially the Miller's projection maps.
And, to say the truth, I prefer playing with the Portuguese instead of the Khmer. It's a matter of historical importance, too. You can't exclude Byzantium or Ottomans.

Byzantium was essentially just a mix of romans and greek, I think having the greeks in Athens and the Ottomans in Constantinople will create this conflict, but again its your mod.
If you were to remove any european civs it should probably be Austria, as they were IMO the most less important from a "world map" point of view. You should remove Sumeria, you could use their leaderhead for Mali. Mali's UU would be Haevy Horseman, using Kinboats Cataphract graphics. I strongly suggest you do this!

what computer have you got??

A pretty good one, but check out my edit in the last post

 

[Iztvan]

Last night I bought a world map from the English - and noted that the Dutch had built cities in Namibia and South Africa - one of them was at the exact same spot as Johannesburg, iirc! History repeats itself!

England, Germany and Austria seem to be managing fine most of the time. Russia, France and Rome not so well... The Greeks don't do well, either.

Everyone seems to have an opinion on how the mod should be tweaked - the Civfanatics are a hard bunch to please! But that's the way it is, you can't please everyone and there is always something that could be done different.

About Civs and starting positions, my only concerns are thet Central Asia ans southeast asia needs a civ and maybe westafrica, and the ethiopean starting position is very hard. Sure, Europe is crowded, but the terrain is good, so they can still thrive.

 

[Rhye]

Originally posted by Iztvan
dreiche2 -> I've noticed it to. This happens with the unmodded game to, the AI doesn't seem to take account of the pop cost of settlers. This problem is then accentuated by the increased cost in Rhye's of Civ.

The problem is that the increased cost has a good gameplay effect, so I don't know how to work around this. Maybe keep the vanillaCiv popcost of 2, but give it a tremendous shield cost? But perhaps this will cripple the AI too??

I've actually been toying with an idea: Make Settlers unbuildable by all civs, and make the Palace, or some other appropriate building(s), generate a settler every X (10? 20?) turns, like the Knights Templar generates Crusaders.

If a wonder produce settlers for everyone every civ would have always the same number of cities.
Instead, a shield-only solution would cause: 1) Starting locations to be edited, because some civs like Egypt don't have many shields near. 2)That wouldn't be so effective, because more a city grows, more the shields cost isn't a problem


About Artificial lack of Intelligence, I don't know what to do. If high population cost is an advantage for the player, try raising difficulty level.
Monarch=9
Emperor=9
Demigod=8
Deity=8
Sid=7

This is %cost. Setting 8 or less will cause every other civ build faster (8/9 of the time they used to spend), research faster, etc.
And timeline could not fit the discovers anymore. But you want to try to find an harder challenge (and I think you would need that, considering his screenshots ) try that. Or try playing with a non-european civ. I think American civs are the hardest choices.

 

[Rhye]

Mmm. Mali or a S-E Asian civ instead of Sumeria isn't a bad idea. I'll remember that if I release an update

 

[thestonesfan]

Originally posted by Rhye
Mmm. Mali or a S-E Asian civ instead of Sumeria isn't a bad idea. I'll remember that if I release an update

I was going to suggest switching Sumeria with Mali/Songhay. Gilgamesh looks very nearly black, so you could use him for a leaderhead. A UU might be a problem, however.

If you want yet another European civ, here's an idea - add Poland, give them the original Hannibal as a leaderhead, and make Mursilis of the Hittites the new Hannibal. Make Shaka the leader of the Ethiopians and ditch the Zulus, since historically, they were very short-lived as anything that could be called a "civ". That would also free up the Impi for another African UU.

I have an idea that could give you an African UU - use the Mayan Javelin Thrower. I think he could pass for an Ethiopian Javilineer. If you want to keep the Mayas, Kinboat has made a lot of awesome Meso-American units.

You could change Korea to Siam or Khmer(I prefer Siam - it sounds cooler. ), just to have a civ to fill SE Asia.

Okay, here is my last African UU idea. Since you got rid of the Celts, you could give the Gallic Swordsman to Carthage and give the Numidian Mercenary to an African Civ. Hannibal recruited a lot of soldiers from Gaul - probably more than he did from Libya. The problem is, it might look funny having fair-haired white guys running around Africa!

Anyway, great looking mod!

 

[Iztvan]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
Byzantium was essentially just a mix of romans and greek, I think having the greeks in Athens and the Ottomans in Constantinople will create this conflict, but again its your mod.
If you were to remove any european civs it should probably be Austria, as they were IMO the most less important from a "world map" point of view. You should remove Sumeria, you could use their leaderhead for Mali. Mali's UU would be Haevy Horseman, using Kinboats Cataphract graphics. I strongly suggest you do this!A pretty good one, but check out my edit in the last post

The Greek/Byzantium/Ottoman question is a damn hard nut to crack in a game that goes from 4000bc to 2050ad. There is no "right" way of doing it, just different ways of doing it "wrong".
If a civ-slot is needed to fill a hole in SE asia, west Africa or poland/ukraine/central asia, I'd vote for ditching the Greeks or Byzanties... but I'd do so with a heavy heart.

Revome Austria? Heresy! Seriously, this map is made to be able to handle a lot of euro civs, so i think it fills a spot... unless perhaps you add Poland as theStonesFan suggested
Mali, though, would fit perfectly. I think I'll try out that change the next game I play.

Originally posted by thestonesfan

If you want yet another European civ, here's an idea - add Poland, give them the original Hannibal as a leaderhead, and make Mursilis of the Hittites the new Hannibal. Make Shaka the leader of the Ethiopians and ditch the Zulus, since historically, they were very short-lived as anything that could be called a "civ". That would also free up the Impi for another African UU.

I have an idea that could give you an African UU - use the Mayan Javelin Thrower. I think he could pass for an Ethiopian Javilineer. If you want to keep the Mayas, Kinboat has made a lot of awesome Meso-American units.

You could change Korea to Siam or Khmer(I prefer Siam - it sounds cooler. ), just to have a civ to fill SE Asia.

Okay, here is my last African UU idea. Since you got rid of the Celts, you could give the Gallic Swordsman to Carthage and give the Numidian Mercenary to an African Civ. Hannibal recruited a lot of soldiers from Gaul - probably more than he did from Libya. The problem is, it might look funny having fair-haired white guys running around Africa!

Anyway, great looking mod!

Poland or Ukraine or something to represent the non-russian slavs wold be nice. Just dont go and remove the Austrians!

Moving & renaming Korea is somexthing i've played around with in the PTW version of this mod (using kal-els 180x180 earth map), and it's not bad to have something between China and India.
In that mod I moved the Turks to central asia (just east of the urals), since this area is always empty and gets colonized by various european powers... and it's the Turks historical home to, they only arrived in anatolia during the early middle ages. In civ that happens sometimes to, a civ gets its heartland conquered (in this case by mongols and later russians) and continues existing somewhere else.

The problem is, the more you start changing the Civs and UUs, the more you are moving away from "standard Civ". In the beginning this was a purely "Fast loading earth mod" without extensive tweaking and flavour, and that has it's advantages. If Rhye decides to implement some of the changes that has been suggested, the mod will be moving further away from "standard c3c civ" and become an extensive modification. This isn't neccesarily bad, but it is something completely different. Maybe a "speed only version" and a "heavily edited version" would be the sollution?!?

 

[Yoda Power]

Originally posted by thestonesfan
You could change Korea to Siam or Khmer(I prefer Siam - it sounds cooler. ), just to have a civ to fill SE Asia.

ehhh, but historicly the Khmer empire have had far more impact on the world than Siam. The capital Angkor Wat was once one of the biggest cities in the world with a million citizens. The Khmer empire was a cultural mix between China and India. No offence, but thats a bit more important than the cool name of Siam

For Mali again I would say that their UU should be Heavy Horseman(I could try to find a better name), as that was really their main soldier.

Originally posted by Iztvan
The problem is, the more you start changing the Civs and UUs, the more you are moving away from "standard Civ". In the beginning this was a purely "Fast loading earth mod" without extensive tweaking and flavour, and that has it's advantages. If Rhye decides to implement some of the changes that has been suggested, the mod will be moving further away from "standard c3c civ" and become an extensive modification. This isn't neccesarily bad, but it is something completely different. Maybe a "speed only version" and a "heavily edited version" would be the sollution?!?

But changing some civs arent really the same as changing the game. Only the look of it. + I belive that people would be happy to try a few different civs than the usual 31.

 

[habee]

hi

I think this is a very good mod. I like it. But have some problem:
- in Europe the river Rhine and Danube not correct.
- Why u chooesed Austria?
- I think Hungary is better
- I dont like Byzance if there are Roman civ in the game. I think only need Ottomans.
- Summer don't need too.
- Hussar was develobed by the Hungarians.
- What if Holy War need Incene?

 

[Rhye]

Originally posted by Iztvan
The problem is, the more you start changing the Civs and UUs, the more you are moving away from "standard Civ". In the beginning this was a purely "Fast loading earth mod" without extensive tweaking and flavour, and that has it's advantages. If Rhye decides to implement some of the changes that has been suggested, the mod will be moving further away from "standard c3c civ" and become an extensive modification. This isn't neccesarily bad, but it is something completely different. Maybe a "speed only version" and a "heavily edited version" would be the sollution?!?

You've hit the nail on the head.
The more you add/remove something, the more you risk to dissatisy someone. I could remove Korea and then a korean comes out demonstrating how important Korea was....
A friend of mine turned angry when he knew that I didn't put Macedonia in the mod, as he suggested (He studies History and wanted to distinguish them from Greeks)
I've been very careful adding civs, removing civs and adding techs/units/wonders.
If you want to know, my personal preference goes to static leaderhead because I can't stand bald Joan of Arc or other inaccuracies like Theodora. But I can't expect that everybody likes static paintings or flags, so putting them in this mod would be a mistake.

Originally posted by habee
hi

I think this is a very good mod. I like it. But have some problem:
- in Europe the river Rhine and Danube not correct.
- Why u chooesed Austria?
- I think Hungary is better
- I dont like Byzance if there are Roman civ in the game. I think only need Ottomans.
- Summer don't need too.
- Hussar was develobed by the Hungarians.
- What if Holy War need Incene?

As written above, an Hungarian asks why not Hungary....
Austria was Austria-Hungary at its peak, so they are in a certain meaning included.
Hussar was developed there but used by many European nations, as an army corps. Willing to expand the XVIII Century a bit, I think that adding the missing flintlock infantry and light cavalry for everyone, and then adding Grentzer for Austria (or Austria-Hungary) and Shifta for Ethiopia is still historically accurate.
Incense...why for Holy War?


Anyway, thank you all for the suggestions, but if you like the mod as it is please go to the polls!

 

[Iztvan]

Originally posted by Rhye

You've hit the nail on the head.

It was bound to happen one day...

I guess the best thing to do is move/change as little as absolutely possible, and then leave the tweaking to the players?

You can modify a mod/scenario for ages and never be quite finished or satisfied... ( like longbows and medieval infantry existing until Replaceable parts ) ... but then the scenario needs to be finished before Civ4 is released, so getting finished priority #1!

 

[HeartOfTroy]

In the new thread I have left details on how to install, so it should not be confusing. I also agree change less or the feel of this MOD will change. Rhye...Can you put back the Mounted Warrior?...I want to give the Sioux a UU different then the Irquious.

Later

HOT

 

[habee]

OK
I'm from Hungary And like my counry, and Hungery is older civ (895 AD in Europe) And Hungary was an important country in 1000-1526 AD, when the Ottomans invad it

 

[HeartOfTroy]

Rhye...

There is a cost problem with Feudalism Government. It is charge 3 gold upkeep on units per turn. In my thread I have fixed this to 1 Gold upkeep per turn.

Later

HOT

 

[123john321]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
(...)Finally the map takes too long to load for my computer so my games werent very long or big, but I really like the way you put the map together, and I would be very happy if you made a 140. 140 or 130 130 version of it. Edit: I might want to add that I get very easy bored, 3 seconds is the longest loading time I can stand.(..)

This this my problem too, plus, not a big fan of huge maps, but your map is great!

 

[Rhye]

Originally posted by HeartOfTroy
There is a cost problem with Feudalism Government. It is charge 3 gold upkeep on units per turn. In my thread I have fixed this to 1 Gold upkeep per turn.

Uh....is it a bug of my mod or of conquests?

Originally posted by HeartOfTroy
In the new thread I have left details on how to install, so it should not be confusing. I also agree change less or the feel of this MOD will change. Rhye...Can you put back the Mounted Warrior?...I want to give the Sioux a UU different then the Irquious.

You can do that very easily:

Copy all the settings (from the units tab inside the .biq) Mounted Warrior has (except "available to") from a standard .biq and overwrite the F-15 in the modded .biq
I did not delete the Mounted Warrior pediaicons.txt entries, so it should work. If it doesn't, tell me what error message it gives.

 

[Rhye]

This is my 1000th post!!!

:grad:

 

[HeartOfTroy]

I have posted version 2.0 of my Mod that has a new idea to test. I have made all settlers 2 population cost and doubled the shield point cost. There is a readme on the post. Please go and check it out and tell me what you think?

Later

HOT

PS.. Rhye, I'm just trying to help test new ideas for your mod and make it even better.