Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

[Rhye]

OK. There's a quite long TO DO list.

Just some quick replies:

-> Do you want stronger Iroquois? I can do that, but it's really dangerous! With no crippling they would be the strongest

-> Flavours seem to have no effect at all for anybody

-> Azores contain forest because otherwise they'll stop any other caravel passing from there. I have a game where Byzantines have Azores and they don't allow any caravel to follow the seapath and reach America

-> I didin't cripple Rome; instead I helped that civ with a good starting location

-> Where should guerrilla be in the tech tree in your opinion? Right now they have that function: an infantry with no resources, made on purpose for weaker civs with no resources. The problem is: do Europeans or Americans or China/Japan take a rubber and build infantry?

-> Perphaps setting ocean movement cost 2 and setting ignore movement cost to all naval units except galleys is better than making impossible to reach ocean for galleys (with the wheeled setting). What do you think?

-> I can't make the savegame work. It says an error message (about Holy War), while the biq works instead

 

[Rhye]

I've tested and seen that each camp produces 8 swordsmen and (if by the sea) 3 galleys. I'll try with "no barbarians" setting and see what happens.

In the meanwhile I had an idea for a nice addition: what do you think if I add an "Atomic bomb" not buildable but produced only once by the Manhattan Project? It would be the one in WWII Conquest and it represents the first atomic ever built.

 

[Eddiit]

I think thats a pretty damn good idea. I was going to mention maybe expanding on the Rhye's of Civ mod by maybe adding a few additional wonders and techs. There are some great wonders being produced by modders especially Rufus T. Firefly. Obviously we want to avoid weighing your mod down too much but I think adding some flavor wouldn't hurt. If you want to be historically accurate their are wonders, techs and units missing that would help Rhyes out. IMHO.

About the iroquis... leave them as they are. When you encounter them they are at the power level the actual Iroquis were at. Was that not the goal? And yes... you can win as a human when playing as them but it IS difficult. Not necessarily a bad thing considering historically they are all but extinct.

 

[Aeon221]

True, but it must be remembered that they were a rather strong people until AFTER the Europeans arrived. Before that, they were a decent power in the region. It should also be remembered that they were excellent colonial allies.

I say make it so that they can add one or two cities, but otherwise leave them alone.

Perhaps my Rome just ended up being a weaker one. I am willing to accept that as a possibility, but it bugs me that they are so worthless. I was planning on using a ROP to hit Germany with their rail network, but they never built one and Germany died ;p

Guerrillas as a seperate, stronger, not upgradeable unit available only to crippled civs (Iroquoi and Inca especially, as well as Ethiopia and Zulu). Not sure how that would play out if you played as a non-major civ and actually used them, but the computer needs some way to fight back. You could balance by not letting the crips get Infantry, or giving them a weaker version or something.

Would the A-bomb be the only one you could get? Or would it just be a nice bonus? As a bonus, great idea!

And the Azores were used for the purpose mentioned, so it make sense that the Byzantines did that.

If I ever decide to stop playin this game as America (too fun! California+Rockies+Railroads=Production Monster!) I will play as the Portugese and see how the colonial empire works in the mod.

Should be a few days yet before I get bored with America though, because this is really satisfying ;p

 

[Aeon221]

Has anyone else cleared a forested hill into grassland? I have done about three... I have a feeling it is not supposed to happen ;p

Noticed it a while ago, but kept forgetting to mention it.

 

[Rhye]

The A-bomb would be a bonus for who builds the manhattan project. I think that nuclear missiles come later, and there are no nuclear weapons at the end of the industrial age.
My point of view about additions is that a thing could be added if it is MISSING and it doesn't DISTURB. For this reason I haven't added:
- lots of units, techs, etc. which I consider useless
- lots of civs (I wouldn't have a good leaderhead)
- units animations with wrong offsets
- other things that completely change the game and force who wants to play to study the tech tree again

I think that the A-Bomb belongs to none of the above, as well as Flintlock Infantry and the Hussar. I would never add two more tanks instead.

 

[Rhye]

Originally posted by Aeon221
Has anyone else cleared a forested hill into grassland? I have done about three... I have a feeling it is not supposed to happen ;p

Noticed it a while ago, but kept forgetting to mention it.

I know, but unfortunately the "clear forest" action creates a tile that is grassland/plains/tundra.
And the editor doens't allow a separate setting for LM terrains

 

[Eddiit]

Well I think their are some cool things you could add.... like the wonder Scotland Yard and the Victorian Secret Service unit it would produce. Obviously I dont want everything convoluted BUT some additions would add additional flavor and would give more options and routes to choose in customizing your civ. I dont agree with adding more civs...youre world is complete civ wise. Please consider some additions...I really think it could do some goo.

 

[Aeon221]

I am pretty happy with how it is right now; in fact, this is the first mod that I have not immediately started fudging with. I got reobsessed with the Rise of Rome scenario (playing as Carthage, Romans are strong, but weaker now that I punched them out of Southern Italy and France) so no new thoughts on improvement.

I really think that adding the Victorian Secret Service unit, or any other spyish unit is really annoying and stupid. They in no way make sense in the context of a game where one unit is equivalent to a division of troops. The current spy interface is good (although a further price reduction would be nice, as I would really like to see that thing overused).

Also, how do you change the check mark back to the circle? It is harder to hit the check, and I keep missing it in my clicking frenzy ;p

 

[Rhye]

The check mark is contained in X-o_ALLstates-sprite.pcx

Now, a summary of what's begin done and will probably be in next patch (my aim is the end of next week)


Already done:

- Tuned Japanese, Iroquois and Carthaginian strength
- Scouts and explorers now can be airlifted but can't pillage
- Shifta, Keshik and Ansar Warrior now ignore desert movement cost
- Modern paratroopers no longer need rubber
- Riflemen now need saltpeter
- Updated civilopedia and corrected some entries
- Modern armor can't be airlifted anymore
- Reduced 'build never' penalties for some crippled civs
- Ocean movement costs 2; all units ignore its cost except galley and dromon
- Galley and dromon don't ignore sea movement cost anymore (otherwise they could cross the Bering strait)
- Some new terrain graphics: lighter rivers and less grey mountains
- Tuned max eruption period (24000 years)
- Tuned plagues earliest start and grace period

To do:

No uprisings or less barbarian camps?
New irrigations graphics
Radio removed to follow Conquests last patch changes?
Some resources will appear later in the game (dyes/horses/tobacco): for example horses will appear in America during Industrial age while they are available from the beginning in the rest of the world
America and the civs with European culture group crippled in Ancient and Medieval age: thanks to a hidden resource they will reach their full strength beginning from the Renaissance
Swap internally Fission and Rocketry (no effect in the tech tree: the only effect is that AI researches Fission first and the Manhattan Project comes earlier the game)
Add a Nuclear Bomb unit available with Fission / Manhattan Project
Guerrilla to be modified?

 

[Eddiit]

Changes sound good but I still want to lobby for a bit more diversity with techs and units.... obviously i agree with not weighing the mod down BUT as somebody who is more than a six month veteran of the Rhye series I'd like to see something new...more options.. a few more choices and I trust Rhyes judgement that what he does will work.

Be careful when tuning Iroquis.... I dont feel theyre all that crippled.

 

[Aeon221]

I am for modification of Guerrilla!

Also, could you make it so that scouts from, say, France cannot be seen on the Siberian Coast in... 210BC? They probably had contact with civilizations other than Japan (current game, Portugese were not going strong as I had two cities and war with everyone... I was winning until they started with swordsmen and I couldn't get iron ;p) for a long time before that.

Perhaps make them wheeled? Or if that is too much of a penalty, some other change to them? It would certainly be in keeping with the theme of prevention of globalization... maybe no scouts at start?

 

[Aeon221]

This may sound kind of asinine, but I would also like to lobby for the removal of Korea, and its being replaced with a Pacific Island Civ.

Historical reasons:

Korea has not been a truly independent country ever, even in the Chosun Kingdom period. It has always been subject to either foriegn occupation, invasion, or dominion.

In those beautiful (if rare) moments of independence it was extremely isolationist.

It is miniscule.

It is (to those Westerners who do not know many Koreans, as I have the good fortune to) pretty much unkown as a country even now.

On the other hand, its removal allows both China and Japan to expand more normally (no massive purple coastline where Korea randomly grabbed territory from China in the initial colonization phase) and allows the area to become a hotbed of contention.

A Southeast Asian Civ would fill a far larger gap, and would simply make more sense in terms of size. Other than a name change (and perhaps a few city name fixes, which I would be more than willing to do if it is needed) the Korean Civ would fit perfectly there.

I know I am going to get blasted for this one ;p

Disclaimer:

All statements about Korea are meant for the mod, and do not relate to my actual opinion of the place. I recognize that Korea, like many non-Western countries and cultures, has a vast wealth of history, as well as scientific and artistic achievements, that more than earn it its place as a civilization in the standard game.

 

[Eddiit]

Throughout history spies has had a huge impact on warfare.....historically spies and spy types have destroyed battalion after battalion... look at a suicide bomber throwing himself amongst a group of soldiers...yeah he dies but so do alot of them... on that note a single spy is IMHO the equivalent to a unit in some cases.

Regardless... the guerilla idea is good and keeping french out of siberia is great.

 

[Eddiit]

Hmmmm.....and what civ would you propose? I kind of like having Korea out there. Would you put the vietnamese? I dunno....I dont really like it.

 

[Drift]

Rhye, have you ever considered renaming the mod? I realized only few days ago the word play in it - before that I had just wondered about the strange order of words.

Naturally, it isn't a big deal. It could well be that most people aren't as thick as me. It's just that given the high quality of the mod, it might benefit from a more "professional" name. When a mod's name contains the name of its creator, it gives me the initial impression of a personal mod made public.

Anyway, good job with the mod.

 

[Rhye]

Drift->
The word Rhye's of Civilization came out after a dabate between me and Kal-El (DyP creator for anybody who doens't know). He suggested me that name (I would have never thought of that word play - I'm not native English speaker) and its abbreviation "RoC".
Now, changing the name would mean:
- find another good name that isn't banal
- contact Thunderfall and make sure he changes the name of the thread
- make sure that everybody who already know the "old brand" get ot know the new "brand"


Others->
I have a lot to study this week and I'll see what I can do. But I prefer finishing this new patch at first, then we can discuss again. Anyway, you know my position: I don't want to add a civ if I don't find good stuff (leaderhead, UU, KU) and if I'm not sure that everybody likes it. I mean, if most of you, including Iztvan, habee and the others in the first pages of this thread agree for a removal of Korea and addition of Khmer I'll consider doing that. But if I won't make somebody unhappy to make someone happy. I'm democratic
My personal opinion on that is I'm not very fond of Korea but not even of Indonesia or Mali or Sioux or Sumeria.

I don't know if you have noticed the questions in my post above:

- No uprisings or less barbarian camps? - I must choose between the 2 solutions, as the number of rising units cannot be under 8

- Should I remove Radio follow Conquests last patch changes?

- Some resources will appear later in the game (dyes/horses/tobacco): for example horses will appear in America during Industrial age while they are available from the beginning in the rest of the world
America and the civs with European culture group crippled in Ancient and Medieval age: thanks to a hidden resource they will reach their full strength beginning from the Renaissance
What do you think of this? I think that's a great intuition! No more discussion about horses, I can make them appear when I want, anywhere. And I can make for example Germany very weak at the beginning and become suddenly strong at half game!

- Adding a Nuclear Bomb as a bonus created with Manhattan P. can't be done: I thought of setting a 100 turns period in the editor so that it would create only once, but it seems that 100 turns are waited before building. And if I make 1 turn, it will obviously build a bomb every turn. So, is the A-bomb addition as a unit available for anyone necessary?

- Guerrilla to be modified? Remember that most of the crippled civs won't reach late industrial age and so guerrillas won't be useful for them

 

[Eddiit]

ABout the barbarians I really have no opinion. Ive neer had a peoblem.

ABout radio... keep it....

About resources.... great idea....though dont cripple germany and the other european civs too much... if they fall enough behind it wont really matter what new resources they get.

About the manhattan project..... I like adding thew wonder though 100 turns is indded too long and 1 turn rediculously overpowered.

About guerilla....I think you SHOULD modify them for crippled civs but add them as a second UU available ONLY to crippled civ and available before late Industrial age to help keep them in the game.

 

[Roluce]

I vote fewer barbarian camps.

Remove Radio, unless it will cause serious damage to the time flow.

So you can make resouces appear when you want? Wow, that will solve many problems.

My personal opinion is that any civ should have the opportunity to make it. Crippling civs at the beginning is ok for historical accuracy but I enjoy the "what if"s. What if the Mayans rule the world, though improbable, it still should be possible.

Yea, I was wondering how you were gonna do that A-bomb thing.

And by the way, the name if fine, imho.

 

[EL_OSO]

Here's my input:

If you're going to get rid of Korea, then get rid of America and replace it with an indigenious tribe.

Barbarian uprisings...

I'm not sure how this is hard coded but I would be willing to bet that more often than not they occur close to the player. At least in the games I play it seems like massive uprisings always occur near my poorly defended cities or along my flanks. The timing of these uprisings sometimes occur while I'm at war. This is in all games of Civ, not just this mod.

Removal of uprisings will make the camps easy pickings but the game will run faster. It will also mean less chances for free unit promotion. The downside is it will allow for easier expansion. My vote is to leave it as is.

Instead of removing the Radio tech, rename it to Radar since that is what it really represents. I've always wondered why they called it radio. It is usually one of the last techs that I research in the Industrial age and it just seems out of place historically for the invention of radio.

I like the changes proposed to resources.

I don't think the A-bomb is necessary. ICBMs come into play very quickly.

I like the idea of crippling/enhancing civs based on history. Does this affect the player if he/she is playing one of these civs? It's worth a try as long as it doesn't affect the player. I was under the impression that the GA was supposed to simulate this depending on civ traits.

I'm not sure about the guerilla. I haven't noticed anything odd or out of place with this unit as the mod or game is now.

I'm against removing airlift capability for modern armor. How do you think America's modern armor gets overseas? We have a plane called the C-5 transport which does this quite well.

The object of this game is to have the ability to project power from a military standpoint. Removing the airlift capability will be ahistorical. That would be almost as bad as removing the instant move bonus from a railroad.

Now I will have to conduct multiple naval invasions? A turn is 2 years long in the end portion of this mod right? You mean to tell me that its going to take 4 years to cross the Atlantic with 8 tanks via transport?

Realistically that's not right and you should also be able to transport via air or water to any spot on the map in a 1-2 year span.