Hello again,
Okay, have to admit it. I'm pretty addicted to this mod now. Great work Rhye!
I've dabbled with 6 different games now, playing each until at least the mid-middle ages (if you know what I mean).
Observations so far on gameplay/realism/difficulty/civ choice etc.
Chinese - as already mentioned by some other posters. Not the most challenging. Good civ to get to know the mod with though... Lots of room to expand into and some decent land. Can play as an isolationist until late game. Good to hear contact will now be possible between India and China, cheers Rhye. (They may not have met "THAT" early, but I'm sure the Chinese had contact with India before they had contact with the Spanish, as in my game). Conclusion: Good civ as an introduction to the mod or for builders or middle/modern age warmongers.
Portuguese - Interesting civ to play, both as Human Player and for the computer. Domination over the Spanish is key in both cases in my view. The Carrack's ability to cross oceans also creates a real sense of realism. In all of the games I've played, the Portuguese have been the first Europeans to settle in modern day Brazil. HOWEVER, with the Portuguese being expansionist, they keep ending up getting a city in SW France from the goody hut there. This ends up making them much more of a powerful European civs than in reality. They have had some 5/6 cities on mainland Europe to Spain's 3/4 in most games I've played. The Europeans start with plenty of juicy land, and exchange contacts early, so do they really need goody huts? Overall, after dominating the Spanish in my game, I found it relatively easy to play as the Portuguese. Being sea-faring also allows you to get early contacts with more distant civs, and pick out the most favourable locations for your settlements. Conculsion: Great for empire builders and traders. Dominate Spain early for a major advantage.
England - Proved to be much easier than I had expected. Rhye has made the Uk's land pretty nice, so you can have 3 or 4 great cities on the UK landmass, another 2 on the Irish landmass. Be careful though, as the French, Spanish or Portuguese will be liable to try to plonk a city into Southern Ireland if you don't get there quickly - Pretty realistic really. As the AI is so poor at island invasions, anyone staring as England will be hard pressed to actually loose by conquest. (In another game as the Inca, it's the early industrial and Germany has has half the world ganged up against England for at least 40 turns, and they are yet to loose a city in the UK.) Again, being seafaring allows for good trading and communications with other civs, be careful of trading with asia if you declare war on France, Spain or Portugal though... Your trade routes would be cut before navigation. The vikings didn't seem to be as much of a threat as in reality. Conculsion: Varied strategies possible, as once you settle the UK, no-one can really touch you.
Byzantines - Start position is in a really important strategic position and has some decent bonuses. You are, however, seriously crowded in by the Ottomans, Austrians and others, so to get a second viable city you have to pump out a settler early. The other option is early conquest, otherwise you'll be confined, like the AI always is as Byzantium, to 1 or 2 cities. However, if you fancy early/mid stage combat, this is a great civ to choose. You can strike out in whatever direction you choose: North into central Europe against the Austrians and Germans. East to take out the Babylonians, Sumerians, and Persians. South to take on the Babs and Arabs. South West towards suez to take out the Egyptians (and maybe later the Carthaginians). The Byzantine start location was also pretty decent for snagging a few wonders, in my game I decided to go for all of the "free unit" wonders, and ended up powering my war-mongering by building, the Temple of Zeus, Knights Templar AND Holy war. This left my cities largely free to build infrastructure while I built a civ that dominated the southern and eastern Mediteranean. I stopped this game after taking a few cities in the Americas as victory was inevitable, but it was great fun as a warmongers game. Conclusion: War early or you are likely to be doomed.
Carthagians: I was surprised at how tricky it was playing with the carthaginians, after having effectively dominated whilst using them in Conquests in the Rise of Rome. Such a dry start, with no fresh water for hundreds of miles around, and various strong civs not to far away, this can be tough. I didnt play this game for too long, as I got really annoyed with my 3rd settler was on his way to settle near the wines in W Africa and the Portuguese came and plonked a settler down on my ready improved terrain. Conculsion: Haven't yet decided on a good strategy for these guys, but with Ivory close to hand the Temple of Zeus is almost a must if you are planning on warmongering.
Incas - After getting to a position in all of the above games that victory was almost inevitable (i.e. ahead of all other civs by 100 or more in score by the middle ages), I decided to try with the more challenging Inca. The start position is murderous... No fresh water, only one food bonus in the 21 square city radius, surrounded by mountains and hills. The same applies for the most logical city positions for the 2nd and 3rd cities N and S of the capital. The race is on with the Incas to settle as much of Sth America as possible before the Europeans start flooding in. The key to doing this is in crossing the Andes, so workers galore are required to build roads (and a military escort for them is needed too, to defend against bards. Once, you've broken through, there is some decent enough land around modern day Argentina, where cities can grow reasonably well. The AI when playing as the Inca never seems to break through unless they get a settler or free city from a goody hut. Otherwise they are confied to a dry and barren existence. The Incan unique unit, the Chaquasi scout, is useful given the hostile local terrain, it has a reasonable chance against the barbs, and can cross the mountains and jungle to actually make contact with the other American tribes. I've left this game delicately poised at the start of the industrial age. I'd managed to settle 90% of Sth America by the time the Portuguese arrived in 1300AD, so I'm pretty much assured of at least surviving till the end. The Germans have started an early Blitzkrieg in Europe though, having taken over all of France and half of Holland by 1700AD, so they'll be my main threat in the race to the stars. In conclusion, the Incans are a great civ to choose for Emperor/Demi-God/Deity type players who appreciate a greater challenge. Lots of early to mid range building and development, as you attempt to squeeze as much productivity as possible out of a pretty barren landscape. Workers are always a problem, and early war options are limited. The nearest civ, the Maya have a strong defensive UU, so they'll continue to be hard to take on until the later medieval or early industrial, let alone actually building roads or enough boats to actually get at them beyond the Amazonian jungles.
I'll play through to the end with the Incas now, and then pick someone else, (maybe Maya or the Zulu for another challenge).
Historical realism - I love the way so many of the civs end up with the sort of territory they have done in real life, and so many of the most famous historical battles play themselves out in this mod.
Germans blitzing Europe.
Greeks, Romans, Byzantines and Carthagians fighting for naval domination of the Mediteranean.
Cross channel bickering between the English and French.
Portuguese, English, Dutch and French colonialism. (I love it that the Dutch often seem to settle in Sth Africa, and the Portuguese in Brazil). The English even took the Falkland Islands in my latest game... Nice!
However, some things seem a little inconsistent... Rhye, have you seen much of these in your play testing?
- Korea ends up controlling much of the Philipines, Taiwan etc.
- Germany gets too strong too early.
- Rome never really seems to break out of modern day Italy too much.
- The vikings never try to invade northern England/Scotland.
- The mongol hoards never seem to make a serious assault on the Chinese.
- The English are never the first to settle in Australia/NZ
I'm sure some of these happen in some games, and you can't have it all.... But I have yet to observe any of the above.
Resources - Just one comment for now really. The Chilean and Argentian "gauchos", cowboys to you and me, are an integral part of their culture, and many wild and bred horses roam the plains of these 2 countries. Would it be possible to add at least 1 horse to modern day Argentina, in the same way you have to the US?
Game speed - This mod plays like a dream until the late middle ages/early industrial on my PC (XP1600+ 512MB Ram). After which it really slows down as the first world war tends to break out... Can't be helped I guess, and it's still a lot better than the other large world maps out there.
Gameplay: Can you NEVER clear jungles in the game Rhye? I think it should be made possible with some later modern tech if it isnt already, even if it takes a lot of worker turns (60?).
Anyway, congratulations again on a great mod Rhye...
Okay, have to admit it. I'm pretty addicted to this mod now. Great work Rhye!
I've dabbled with 6 different games now, playing each until at least the mid-middle ages (if you know what I mean).
Observations so far on gameplay/realism/difficulty/civ choice etc.
Chinese - as already mentioned by some other posters. Not the most challenging. Good civ to get to know the mod with though... Lots of room to expand into and some decent land. Can play as an isolationist until late game. Good to hear contact will now be possible between India and China, cheers Rhye. (They may not have met "THAT" early, but I'm sure the Chinese had contact with India before they had contact with the Spanish, as in my game). Conclusion: Good civ as an introduction to the mod or for builders or middle/modern age warmongers.
Portuguese - Interesting civ to play, both as Human Player and for the computer. Domination over the Spanish is key in both cases in my view. The Carrack's ability to cross oceans also creates a real sense of realism. In all of the games I've played, the Portuguese have been the first Europeans to settle in modern day Brazil. HOWEVER, with the Portuguese being expansionist, they keep ending up getting a city in SW France from the goody hut there. This ends up making them much more of a powerful European civs than in reality. They have had some 5/6 cities on mainland Europe to Spain's 3/4 in most games I've played. The Europeans start with plenty of juicy land, and exchange contacts early, so do they really need goody huts? Overall, after dominating the Spanish in my game, I found it relatively easy to play as the Portuguese. Being sea-faring also allows you to get early contacts with more distant civs, and pick out the most favourable locations for your settlements. Conculsion: Great for empire builders and traders. Dominate Spain early for a major advantage.
England - Proved to be much easier than I had expected. Rhye has made the Uk's land pretty nice, so you can have 3 or 4 great cities on the UK landmass, another 2 on the Irish landmass. Be careful though, as the French, Spanish or Portuguese will be liable to try to plonk a city into Southern Ireland if you don't get there quickly - Pretty realistic really. As the AI is so poor at island invasions, anyone staring as England will be hard pressed to actually loose by conquest. (In another game as the Inca, it's the early industrial and Germany has has half the world ganged up against England for at least 40 turns, and they are yet to loose a city in the UK.) Again, being seafaring allows for good trading and communications with other civs, be careful of trading with asia if you declare war on France, Spain or Portugal though... Your trade routes would be cut before navigation. The vikings didn't seem to be as much of a threat as in reality. Conculsion: Varied strategies possible, as once you settle the UK, no-one can really touch you.
Byzantines - Start position is in a really important strategic position and has some decent bonuses. You are, however, seriously crowded in by the Ottomans, Austrians and others, so to get a second viable city you have to pump out a settler early. The other option is early conquest, otherwise you'll be confined, like the AI always is as Byzantium, to 1 or 2 cities. However, if you fancy early/mid stage combat, this is a great civ to choose. You can strike out in whatever direction you choose: North into central Europe against the Austrians and Germans. East to take out the Babylonians, Sumerians, and Persians. South to take on the Babs and Arabs. South West towards suez to take out the Egyptians (and maybe later the Carthaginians). The Byzantine start location was also pretty decent for snagging a few wonders, in my game I decided to go for all of the "free unit" wonders, and ended up powering my war-mongering by building, the Temple of Zeus, Knights Templar AND Holy war. This left my cities largely free to build infrastructure while I built a civ that dominated the southern and eastern Mediteranean. I stopped this game after taking a few cities in the Americas as victory was inevitable, but it was great fun as a warmongers game. Conclusion: War early or you are likely to be doomed.
Carthagians: I was surprised at how tricky it was playing with the carthaginians, after having effectively dominated whilst using them in Conquests in the Rise of Rome. Such a dry start, with no fresh water for hundreds of miles around, and various strong civs not to far away, this can be tough. I didnt play this game for too long, as I got really annoyed with my 3rd settler was on his way to settle near the wines in W Africa and the Portuguese came and plonked a settler down on my ready improved terrain. Conculsion: Haven't yet decided on a good strategy for these guys, but with Ivory close to hand the Temple of Zeus is almost a must if you are planning on warmongering.
Incas - After getting to a position in all of the above games that victory was almost inevitable (i.e. ahead of all other civs by 100 or more in score by the middle ages), I decided to try with the more challenging Inca. The start position is murderous... No fresh water, only one food bonus in the 21 square city radius, surrounded by mountains and hills. The same applies for the most logical city positions for the 2nd and 3rd cities N and S of the capital. The race is on with the Incas to settle as much of Sth America as possible before the Europeans start flooding in. The key to doing this is in crossing the Andes, so workers galore are required to build roads (and a military escort for them is needed too, to defend against bards. Once, you've broken through, there is some decent enough land around modern day Argentina, where cities can grow reasonably well. The AI when playing as the Inca never seems to break through unless they get a settler or free city from a goody hut. Otherwise they are confied to a dry and barren existence. The Incan unique unit, the Chaquasi scout, is useful given the hostile local terrain, it has a reasonable chance against the barbs, and can cross the mountains and jungle to actually make contact with the other American tribes. I've left this game delicately poised at the start of the industrial age. I'd managed to settle 90% of Sth America by the time the Portuguese arrived in 1300AD, so I'm pretty much assured of at least surviving till the end. The Germans have started an early Blitzkrieg in Europe though, having taken over all of France and half of Holland by 1700AD, so they'll be my main threat in the race to the stars. In conclusion, the Incans are a great civ to choose for Emperor/Demi-God/Deity type players who appreciate a greater challenge. Lots of early to mid range building and development, as you attempt to squeeze as much productivity as possible out of a pretty barren landscape. Workers are always a problem, and early war options are limited. The nearest civ, the Maya have a strong defensive UU, so they'll continue to be hard to take on until the later medieval or early industrial, let alone actually building roads or enough boats to actually get at them beyond the Amazonian jungles.
I'll play through to the end with the Incas now, and then pick someone else, (maybe Maya or the Zulu for another challenge).
Historical realism - I love the way so many of the civs end up with the sort of territory they have done in real life, and so many of the most famous historical battles play themselves out in this mod.
Germans blitzing Europe.
Greeks, Romans, Byzantines and Carthagians fighting for naval domination of the Mediteranean.
Cross channel bickering between the English and French.
Portuguese, English, Dutch and French colonialism. (I love it that the Dutch often seem to settle in Sth Africa, and the Portuguese in Brazil). The English even took the Falkland Islands in my latest game... Nice!
However, some things seem a little inconsistent... Rhye, have you seen much of these in your play testing?
- Korea ends up controlling much of the Philipines, Taiwan etc.
- Germany gets too strong too early.
- Rome never really seems to break out of modern day Italy too much.
- The vikings never try to invade northern England/Scotland.
- The mongol hoards never seem to make a serious assault on the Chinese.
- The English are never the first to settle in Australia/NZ
I'm sure some of these happen in some games, and you can't have it all.... But I have yet to observe any of the above.
Resources - Just one comment for now really. The Chilean and Argentian "gauchos", cowboys to you and me, are an integral part of their culture, and many wild and bred horses roam the plains of these 2 countries. Would it be possible to add at least 1 horse to modern day Argentina, in the same way you have to the US?
Game speed - This mod plays like a dream until the late middle ages/early industrial on my PC (XP1600+ 512MB Ram). After which it really slows down as the first world war tends to break out... Can't be helped I guess, and it's still a lot better than the other large world maps out there.
Gameplay: Can you NEVER clear jungles in the game Rhye? I think it should be made possible with some later modern tech if it isnt already, even if it takes a lot of worker turns (60?).
Anyway, congratulations again on a great mod Rhye...
)that requires silk? The possibilities are endless...
) twice.
Perhaps ukraine or turkestan is required to fill out the space?
