Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

[Rhye]

3) COLONIAL WARFARE
It is simply impossible for the Euros to settle the Indies before the Middle Easterners and the Easterners do it.

What Indies are you talking about? East Indies?

Anyway the problem should be solved together with the Trading Company thing. I hate Euro civs building spearmen in colonies.

 

[Rhye]

Yo, what's up with all the Europeon counties building where Russia is suppose to be? Is there a way to stop this?

No there isn't.
The only thing that can slow down is the strong barbarian presence.

 

[Rhye]

Just had another idea to fix the Trading Company problem:

1) Add the "docks" improvement, little cost, no upkeep, allows water trade.
2) Remove water trade from harbor; harbor requires docks.

3) Split the wonder into West India Trading Company and East India Trading Company.
They both have the same effect as forbidden palace, but require different resources: tobacco + an European only resource (west), spices or silks + an European only resource (east). Something European is necessary to avoid it being built by natives (see Slave Trade)

 

[navman74]

Just had another idea to fix the Trading Company problem:

1) Add the "docks" improvement, little cost, no upkeep, allows water trade.
2) Remove water trade from harbor; harbor requires docks.

3) Split the wonder into West India Trading Company and East India Trading Company.
They both have the same effect as forbidden palace, but require different resources: tobacco + an European only resource (west), spices or silks + an European only resource (east). Something European is necessary to avoid it being built by natives (see Slave Trade)

Rhye, I wouldn't want you to copy another mod, but there IS a good idea I saw in the old DYP. They had a tech(non researchable,given already at beginning) called"Being ...." Such as "Being English" or "Being Egyptian" etc for each civ, which then was a prerequisite for one specific "chain"only they could make. You could probably do something like this easier than adding one special resource etc to control who can build something. In this way you could limit colonization, at least on a large scale, to those countries which really did colonize, namely European...what with their crowded continent it's a needed deal anyway.

 

[Aeon221]

Yes, its always important to limit those unsightly lines ;p

However, it is quite clear that there is very little you would need to add, and only a little you would need to change for a massive improvement in naval performance.

As to which ships, Galleon and Frigate level onward, POSSIBLY with the Portugese special ships getting it too (probably a good idea, since they were really booking it early on ;p)

I like the idea of the Guardsmen (how about Militia?) units being upgradeable to some other normal unit, but why not pikemen or crossbowmen, rather than something only slightly stronger.

I think Rhye already has done something like this with the resources, but on a larger scale: Americas with tobacco, Asia (China, Mongolia, Japan, India) with silks and spices, Europe with dyes or something I am sure, Middle East with incense.

The point is, this mod is not so different between civs that it really requires each of them to have a different resource. The current system is performing perfectly in that respect, at least in my opinion.

I am against a specifc civ being given a specific wonder simply because they built it in real life. Jeeping it in the right area, as Rhye did, is a splendid idea!

I know thats not exactly what you meant, but I think I am close.

Jeez, this is like framing a bloody constitution ;p

AND I ALSO THINK SEA LANES SHOULD BE ADDED! ;p

 

[Aeon221]

When would harbor become available? It could not be at the same time as docks!

Well, there is that one idea I had about deserts and closing the Urals which would stop the wrong people settling Russia... ;p

 

[navman74]

Yes, its always important to limit those unsightly lines ;p

However, it is quite clear that there is very little you would need to add, and only a little you would need to change for a massive improvement in naval performance.

As to which ships, Galleon and Frigate level onward, POSSIBLY with the Portugese special ships getting it too (probably a good idea, since they were really booking it early on ;p)

I like the idea of the Guardsmen (how about Militia?) units being upgradeable to some other normal unit, but why not pikemen or crossbowmen, rather than something only slightly stronger.

I think Rhye already has done something like this with the resources, but on a larger scale: Americas with tobacco, Asia (China, Mongolia, Japan, India) with silks and spices, Europe with dyes or something I am sure, Middle East with incense.

The point is, this mod is not so different between civs that it really requires each of them to have a different resource. The current system is performing perfectly in that respect, at least in my opinion.

I am against a specifc civ being given a specific wonder simply because they built it in real life. Jeeping it in the right area, as Rhye did, is a splendid idea!

I know thats not exactly what you meant, but I think I am close.

Jeez, this is like framing a bloody constitution ;p

AND I ALSO THINK SEA LANES SHOULD BE ADDED! ;p

Yes you are correct. I do not see a problem currently. Just was trying to save even more work. I had not realized there were yet civ-specific resources, and assumed he would have to add them to accomplish what he said.
I do not understand the lines. As far as appearance, it should look the same. Terrain can loook the same despite being different. Also, I am against a specific civ being GIVEN a specific wonder as well. I do think it does a good job however to help AI controlled civs , which, generally are not very bright, a chance to actually develop a "Roman Empire" or many other things that on it's own, the AI just won't do. For that matter, you could make, say" Being Roman" as an example, be a prerequisite to a tech that allows you to see a resource that the AI would be willing to fight a war for, thus turning into a trigger, etc.
Anyhow, the great thing about this game is, the possibilities really are endless.
A quick off the subject question, as I do not have civ2...there is talk of a civ4, if made, would this and other mods be transferrable? Or would it require everything new? Just wondering.

 

[Rhye]

A quick off the subject question, as I do not have civ2...there is talk of a civ4, if made, would this and other mods be transferrable? Or would it require everything new? Just wondering.

No, absolutely not.

 

[Rhye]

I am against a specifc civ being given a specific wonder simply because they built it in real life. Jeeping it in the right area, as Rhye did, is a splendid idea!

With religions, some civs will be the only possible owner of some wonders. For the simple reason that for example nobody but Egyptians used to develop Egyptian polytheism

 

[Rhye]

I have just tested the new starting units.

I succeeded in a rush with 8 warriors versus 2 guardsmen (1/2/1) and one warrior just built.
I tried then to add 1 hp to them, and I lost.
So what's the best name? Militia?

 

[Rhye]

When would harbor become available? It could not be at the same time as docks!

Dock requires pottery; harbor requires sailing and a dock.


Dyes aren't only europeans. The only Euro-only resource seems to be wines. But that would exclude England above all.

So this is my decision:

the wonder is called India Trading Company.
It requires spices (in its radius? yet to decide. I'd like to hear your opinion) and 5 docks. It will act as a forbidden palace.

BTW, the name forbidden palace seems too China-specific. Why don't we call it simply summer palace or somthing like that. Many monarchs have a summer palace.

 

[Blasphemous]

I like the dock-harbor idea.
Just make sure to lower harbor price so it's worth building for the food bonus (especially since I'm guessing it will have maintainance.)

 

[navman74]

Dyes aren't only europeans. The only Euro-only resource seems to be wines. But that would exclude England above all.

I always add wine to California anyway...have no Europeans heard of the Napa Valley?

 

[Aeon221]

Summer Palace sounds pretty good for a name, cant think of anything else myself. I sent Rhye a messed with map with a rough approximation of where I thought the sea lanes should be.

I did not mess with the ships in the file I sent him (not sure how hes gonna work it with sail vs. oar for the earlier ships, although I personally used only the oared ships in the early game because the other ships did not move as fast as they said they did), but I intend to test a file I in which I did fudge with their movements, just to see how it works.

Could take a bit. ;p

If someone tells me how to post a screen shot correctly (I know how to take it, but I am not sure where to save it, like paint or msword or what, and what to do with it once it is uploaded) I will post what the changed and standard mini maps look like.

 

[Rhye]

I always add wine to California anyway...have no Europeans heard of the Napa Valley?

Wine is in America after the arrivals of Europeans. As it is a luxury, a second type of wine would cause a wine-to-wine trade.

 

[Rhye]

Summer Palace sounds pretty good for a name, cant think of anything else myself. I sent Rhye a messed with map with a rough approximation of where I thought the sea lanes should be.

I've seen it.
Well, I think that a straight connected line is not mandatory. It could be not-connected in some points, to preserve the map accuracy.

The goal is to be able to cross the Atlantic in one turn, and to go from Europe to the East in 2-3 turns.

These days I'm busy with the pedia, but I'll try to mess things up myself to reach the goal, whatever the mean

 

[Metatr0n]

I am glad the sea lanes idea is looking hopeful for inclusion.
Well done Aeon a top idea hopefully to solve the most annoying innacuracy in all of civ

 

[Blasphemous]

Rhye, can't you add american lux wines simply with a different name? I mean, there won't be a very big supply of them, and there's really nothing wrong or unrealistic about wine-wine trade. Or dyes-dyes trade or trade of any other lux for itself. Especially if one of the types is rare.

 

[Aeon221]

Well, if you think about it the French sneer at American wines (and Australian ones), saying that they are CERTAINLY not the same thing. So just make it so that there is only one in Cally (and one of the same type in Aussieland!) and the problem won't occur.

Does anyone know if there is a way to make a tile able to have roads, but not railroads?

RE: Straight Line Sea Lanes-

Rhye, as you saw I am no artiste; that is your distinction ;p

Please, take the shoddy rough draft you saw and turn it into something worth playing on. I totally agree that it would not (and even should not) connect all the way through, but I did want to make it so that it would be the first possibility. Far be it from me to decide where to break things off ;p

Anyway, I am glad you like the idea! Perhaps you should send it to the other testers to see what they think about it. Perhaps one of them has a sea chart with which to propose some route lines if the map is not going to be designed on a strictly aesthetic level ;p

 

[Khift]

Also, while we're on the idea of sea units, I propose a new wonder: the Arsenal. Historically, the Arsenal was a huge organization in Venice that employed nearly 10% of the city's population and could build a warship a day. In game, it would be available whenever Galleass's are and would build a Galleass every six-ish turns.

Does anyone have anything to say about this?