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Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Modpacks' started by Rhye, Feb 5, 2004.

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Rate this mod!

  1. I can't play Civ without this: no more loading times!

    203 vote(s)
    66.6%
  2. A good mod, but I won't play with it

    54 vote(s)
    17.7%
  3. I don't like the map

    13 vote(s)
    4.3%
  4. I don't like the terrain

    9 vote(s)
    3.0%
  5. I don't like the additions

    5 vote(s)
    1.6%
  6. I don't like the rules changes

    21 vote(s)
    6.9%
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  1. Blasphemous

    Blasphemous Graulich

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    I keep forgetting to post this idea, so now I remembered and you shall all listen... And tremble! (If you're like, really cold.)
    Shouldn't Modern Armor (and possibly Mech Inf) ignore Desert movement cost? I mean, several modern wars (including tank wars) were fought in the desert and it never seemed to take them five years to cross a country...
    It should prolly only be given to MA so that is the best unit for attacking with...

    EDIT: Oh, and even if not to all MA then to the Merkava... The thing was freakin designed for desert combat.
     
  2. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

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    Love the idea... up to your edit ;) The Merkava is probably one of the best defensive MBT's in the world. Unfortunately it is also one of the slowest and heaviest. So this is probably the only tank fast desert movement shouldn't apply to! ;)
     
  3. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

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    Yeah I had an idea about ship movement, and it worked so Im gonna share it now. Apparently, you can set tiles to have zero movement, making them work like RRs. You can also set units to IGNORE MOVEMENT COST on them, making it once again cost 1 move per usage.

    So Imperial era ships (like Galleons and Frigaes) onward could be able to rapidly move across the world (say five turns, b/c of the pacific islands, rather than forty plus for a circumnavigation), but if the sea tiles are kept a decent distance from land (or the moves on ships are reduced a bit) it will not cause the problem of instant sea invasions from across the world (although it will reduce move time for these invasions to a two or three turn time).

    I basically see the sea lanes as being about where the Atlantic rift is, with another one going along the pacific and basically keeping like the trade winds.

    The best part is that you could use LM terrain for it if you chose, so that you could still have regular sea tiles to go with the RR sea tiles.

    That way England colonizing India and Australia is far more likely, colonies can be reinforced without twenty turn waits, and the sea lanes which make all this possible would become vitally important. Best of all, since the ignore movement cost flag would be on for galleys and such, they would still be stuck in the area of the world they started in!

    Since the ocean tiles can now fill the role that the Bering Strait LM terrain was filling, it seems logical to use that LM Sea tile to make ships that much faster, without having them go to RIDICULOUS speed while cruising off a coast!

    How about that for an idea?

    Rhye, if you do not want to test it as such, I will check it out in 2.62 and see how it works; I still think that this is a good idea that is well worth checking out!
     
  4. Blasphemous

    Blasphemous Graulich

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    Bleh, you sure about that? I knew that baseless claim (or rather, guess) would come back to hit me in the face... If so, you can make the Merkava not have the desert movement ignoring thing, but because it's for Israel which will be fighting desert wars (unless it gets those out of the way earlier) they should get a bigger stats boost to compensate... Perhaps just better defense than it has now.
    But are you sure it's *that* slow? We're talking two thirds of the speed of other tanks in the desert if Merkava doesn't ignore desert movement.

    Aeon: That idea sounds awesome, definately should be checked out!
     
  5. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

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    Hi, hi... I was just being pedantic! It is slower (up to 20 kmh on roads) compared with Leopards and Abrams but for game purposes I supose it can easily be ignored if only because the IDF armoured force is easily the best tank force in the world.

    Re Aeon's idea: I'll second that motion! Great ideas. :goodjob:
     
  6. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    Blasphemous -> OK for both Merkava and MA

    Aeon -> would you make 0 movement only LM sea, or ocean and LM sea, or ocean and sea?
     
  7. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    Guerrilla.ini?
    It isn't in RoC folders. Is your PTW installed correctly?
     
  8. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

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    Yup, I think so. It worked last time I tried anyway. All the folders are in the right place so I don't think it's down to my install.
     
  9. navman74

    navman74 Chieftain

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    The deserts of the world are pretty much the perfect zones for modern armor and armored cavalry. The Merkava is much slower than many tanks however.
    Tank desert warfare though is not a measure of speed as much as mobility. The reason the desert is nearly the perfect environment is not because of a straight speed issue, it is because there is no terrain enforced channels of movement, a modern force(with gps at least) can move to attack from any direction over the desert.
    To be truly realistic, by the modern ages, turns should be down to a much shorter time frame(weeks even) as the time a modern army takes to move across even a whole continent unopposed is far under a month even.
    The sea lane idea(Aeon's?) BTW is quite realistic, and an excellent idea. Most naval wars which were not fought with the intent of landing ground troops, are fought for protection of the sealanes..this would make many historical realities more likely...U-Boat campaigns in the Atlantic to interfere with movement of troops, etc, the possibilities are endless, and as a naval officer myself, this would make the game much more interesting from my viewpoint as well:)
     
  10. Blasphemous

    Blasphemous Graulich

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    Maybe teh naval movement idea can be applied to land as well for terrain types that take no time at all to traverse nowadays?
    No gonna try and think this through at the moment, must... sleep!
     
  11. Khift

    Khift Prince

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    I like the idea of sealanes, but they should be small and rather sparse; maybe only a couple tiles a stretch, not a free ride the whole way there. Beyond that, though, it would certainly add alot of realism to sea travel.

    Land lanes should be avoided. S'what roads and railroads are for. A modern army could still go through continents in no time in RoC anyways, you've just gotta line up your ROPs.
     
  12. Khift

    Khift Prince

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    Also, while we're on the idea of sea units, I propose a new wonder: the Arsenal. Historically, the Arsenal was a huge organization in Venice that employed nearly 10% of the city's population and could build a warship a day. In game, it would be available whenever Galleass's are and would build a Galleass every six-ish turns.
     
  13. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    what if I simply boost middle ages and modern ships movement? Sealanes doesn't look too realistic...
     
  14. navman74

    navman74 Chieftain

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    Actually, for various reasons, the routes ships take, and have taken, in their journeys, and still today, would resemble roads. Ships do not simply wander the seas, there are indeed some areas where still today few ships traverse. In days of sail, sealanes were for various reasons of currents, favorable winds, etc, today for more complex reasons, but , as long as they dont appear( I believe the original idea was to have them basically invisible) they are QUITE realistic.
     
  15. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    I just had an idea to put an end to the rushes.

    No automatic additional starting units for the AI (which are 2 of best def. unit available = 2 warriors).
    Instead 2 starting defensive (1/2/1) units from the players properties tab. They could be archers, but it would be a bit odd, having archers and not warrior code. So, they could even be a kind of guardsmen, not buildable, with a different animation.

    what do you think?
     
  16. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

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    I like the idea of a starting guardsman unit to prevent rushes. You could have a long term upgrade tree with it (free upgrades of course) to keep it relevant throughout the game.

    Now I will explain my idea. I would say that LM terrain would be the best approach, as you could still retain the normal sea squares everywhere else with their normal one movement cost (it has to be one, because the newer ships will not ignore their cost, because if they did they would not be able to use the lanes). The sea lanes would replace the Atlantic wall (if you look in the editor, it is the long line of sea squares down the Atlantic.

    A new line would have to be put through the Indian Ocean, and would end in Micronesia. A line would also have to be put going toward the bottom tip of South America, leading up to the Hawaiian islands (which have been a crucial stop for ships since coal crossings of the pacific started). This line would terminate near Japan and China.

    Another line would have to be extended to the... Persian Gulf (I think, not 100%)... basically the body of water which would be connected to the Suez canal. That water should also probably be Sea Lane water as well, and there should be some sea lane water near the Panama Canal as well... although these areas will not be NEARLY as crucial if this change is made *they should speed you up a bit, as it will not be possible to connect those lanes under the Horn of Africa and the Southern end of South America*. Which makes sense, considering the storms those areas suffer.

    The Atlantic line would need to be totally connected, as it currently has ocean gaps, and a Transverse line may need to be added to allow easy movement from Europe to America and VV.

    There are several important reasons for this change:

    1) I am tired of spending a century doing as England what Russia was able to do in the real world in under a year in the Russo-Japanese war; send ships from Northern Europe to the Tsushima Straights for a war! Although, unlike Russia, I do not intend to lose.

    2) In a game where it is possible to railroad from Lisbon to Peking an infinite number of times in a single turn, it should not take an entire game to do the same thing with a boat.

    3) COLONIAL WARFARE
    It is simply impossible for the Euros to settle the Indies before the Middle Easterners and the Easterners do it. While they would get the same advantages (although I think they should get them a bit later, simply to allow the Euros to do their colonial thing), the Europeans would be more likely to capitalize on them. Besides, it makes it possible to invade those areas with the (most likely) superior tech of the european superpower without having it take so long that the units are outdated before they arrive.

    4) Naval Combat:
    People would be forced to keep an eye on those lanes. Think how vicious the computer will be with them; China could declare war on you and ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING to you, even if you ARE in Europe. And, even cooler, VV. How cool would it be to see China fighting a war against Europe to preserve its independence, and seeing the troops from Europe not trekking across the vast Russian steppes, but sailing there on nice new boats!

    5) Because I'm Rick James, biatch! ;p

    6) Boosting the movements of ships will cause you to have severe problems with long range invasions from hell that can transport units multiple times. The beauty of this solution is that you will not have to increase movement; you may even have to reduce it for late middle and onward to compensate for their massive sea lane advantage!

    7) The computer will actually use this! They cannot help it, as they compute based on minimum move cost, and sea lanes would certainly equal the absolute minimum... so you could stick ships near there with reasonable certainty that the enemy WILL actually show up around there... as opposed to simply setting up destroyers all around your coast.

    If you bothered to read this, you have as little to do as I do... which is probably why you are on this site in the first place ;p

    I think, repeat THINK, that this change would be a very useful one, in that it will reduce transit times for boats in an accurate fashion, without requiring inordinately large numbers of movement points for each boat, and the subsequent rebalancing that this would entail, as there would be no way to intercept them before they reached a coast.

    Rhye, if you want me to clarify something in specific, just ask; I am simply making as strong (if wordy and somewhat incoherent) case for my idea.

    LONG LIVE THE SEALANES! ;p
     
  17. Jaguar

    Jaguar Lurker

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    Thumbs up to Aeon.


    However, I'm against adding too many irrelevant units. Just give the civs an archer to start and leave it at that.
     
  18. Nooble

    Nooble Warlord

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    Yo, what's up with all the Europeon counties building where Russia is suppose to be? Is there a way to stop this?
     
  19. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    I have to try. It really depends on the areas you want to use. On the same time I don't want to ruin the map with lines everywhere. I'll try.

    And, which are the ships that would be allowed to move through the lines?
     
  20. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    That fact is that I already foresee some people complainting that "a civ hasn't got Warrior Code to trade, but they have archers".

    What do you think of a guard/guardsman/any other name 1/1/2 upgrading to spearman, not buildable.
    I think that it could even be a worth addition to the basic mod, because it solves the problem you just showed me in your last savegame!
     
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