Rhye's of Europe Civ Discussion Thread

[BurnEmDown]

I think we should start by choosing which civs get the highest rating in each rating, and which civs get the lowest, and then according to that decide on 2\3\4 for all other civs in that category. So for example Poland and Kiev should get 5 in growth, If I'm not mistaken.
It seems a lot of civs will get good starting positions, since aside from eastern Europe there aren't many civs who spawn right outside of other civ's borders (which is frequent in RFC).

 

[Wessel V1]

Looks reasonable to me.

One note. People make a lot of comments on the penalties especially for the Byzantines. Tweaking those penalties for our mod is many times easier compared to regular RFC. This is one place where our mod stands out. Pretty much anyone with a text editor should be able to tweak those.

In RFCEurope\Assets\Python, there is a file RFCEBalance.py. You can open this files with NotePad, WordPad or TextPad (the last one would be my choice, but the other two should work just fine). Then you can edit the file and change some numbers to see what effect those would have on gameplay.

A typical modifiers line looks like:

gc.setGrowthModifiers(iByzantium, 300, 100, 150, 100, 100, 2 )

If you change that to

gc.setGrowthModifiers(iByzantium, 150, 100, 150, 100, 100, 2 )

Byzantine cities would grow 2 times faster. There are comments that explain what each number means.

Give it a try.

I've already used these numbers in my calculations, no need to worry. I don't mind the penalties either, it's no problem to me. It's just what I think about Byzantium, and I think that 14 stars is very appropriate.

It seems that I cannot use more than 30 images in a post, so I'll either have to spread it or use standard things. I think I'll do the latter one, (***** or +++++)

@ BurnEmDown: That's okay I think. Kiev for example should of course have 5 stars in growth, and the Netherlands 1 star in starting situation.

@micbic: You're right about that, but I think I won't change it. For example, Germany in RFC has 2 stars in starting situation. Frankfurt, Danzig, Anielowka and Budapest are worth much more than those 2 stars, Germany is in fact the only European civ that can work 4 BFC', and I'd say very powerful ones as well. However, the ordinary player probably won't find these locations immediately, and stays relatively small; Burgundy isn't meant to get really huge.

 

[Wessel V1]

Spoiler :

Burgundy:

Trade: ** Burgundy has access to one or 2 sea ports, and some lands to build towns. They have enough resources to trade. Maintenence costs are very high though, which is an important issue in the first centuries.
Production: **** Lots of productive resources around the capital. The Rhone valley and Toulouse are rather productive too. Important note: all cities can become productive with towns and levees. I've left that part out now.
Culture: **** Because of it's resourceful capital, even better if you settle Besancon, which is SSW, you can get some early wonders. The UP is also powerful for new cities, so I'd give culture 4 or even 5 stars.
Growth: ** Large cities are possible, when the entire valley has farms. Otherwise, the cities stay small. There is not much room for expansion either, you won't get much farther than Barcino, Milan and maybe somewhere between Germany and France.
Starting situation: ** There are some dangerous neighbours very close: Germany and France. The other things seem to be fine, so 2 stars is reasonable.
Overall: 14

Byzantium
Trade: ** Byzantium has large penalties, although there are some possibilities for them to do a decent job. Especially Constantinopolis means a lot to them.
Production: ** Raw production is not bad, but the modifiers are annoying. It's the same story as above: Constantinopolis is the important city.
Culture: **** An early religion, early wonders, Byzantium has it all. However, 4 stars because it's hard to construct all cultural buildings in time because of the poor production.
Growth: * It takes ages to grow the cities. Anatolia lacks food, and the magical penalties strike again. Don't even try to expand, the cities flip away as soon as you build them, which is a complete waste of the many hammers that you've wasted to build a settler. The only positive note is Constantinopolis (again), that is soon limited by hapiness and health caps.
Starting situation: ***** Yes, 5 stars here. I think this is one of the most arguable decisions, that will have to be corrected but this is my opinion. Nothings seems to be wrong when you start; even better, you seem to be a world power. Normalized score says everything, 100,000 points for winning this turn.
Overall: 14

France:
Trade: **** France has access to multiple Atlantic ports. They have lot's of good land, and some resources to trade as well.
Production: *** Paris has high capabilities, but the other cities that you don't have to conquer are not that good for production. Maybe 2 stars is better but it's still very possible to conquer the territory needed to get a high production.
Culture: *** The same deal about the wonders, but France doesn't have the same UP. So, three stars is what they get.
Growth: **** France can hold large, wealthy cities. New territories can be conquered easily thanks to the UP.
Starting situation: *** France has a decent situation. There is some barbarian pressure, Burgundy can declare war early, England can get a food on your land but these things are not so terrifying.
Overall: 17

Arabia:

Trade: **** Everyone except Turkey and Cordoba will hate you. You have lots or rare resources though, and a nice tech rate. Your UB is also nice, it makes your trade routes even more profitable.
Production: ** Only your spawn area is reasonably productive, North Africa is much worse. Serfdom and a farm chain could help a little, but these cities will never compete with the European cities.
Culture: ***** All 3 early religions are present in Jerusalem. Your UP guarantees a massive cultural boost, and some wonders makes everything even better. One of the possible cultural victory candidates.
Growth: ** A huge amount of land to settle, but none of your cities can grow large. Even with farms and wind mills everywhere, your cities stay small.
Starting situation: **** Everything is at least fine, so Arabia has an extraordinary situation. I won't give them 5 stars though, since that's a privelege of Byzantium. AFAIK, no civ in RFC has 5 stars here, and only Byzantium is a fair candidate in my view.

Bulgaria: (I'm not very sure here, this might require some changes. It really depends on early conquests, since Bulgaria is quite weak otherwise)

Trade: ** Bulgaria has access to one sea port: Tomis.You'll probably be Orthodox, so the western civs won't like you very much. Overall commerce is not very bad though, because there are some grasslands that beg for being cottaged. It all depends on Constantinople, again.
Production: *** The core is not very promising, the Byzantine and mountains keep your capacities small. However, there are some possibilities in the west, and also some Byzantine cities.
Culture: ** You are not likely to build many wonders. Your main attraction won't be cultural buildings anyway, but military.
Growth: *** There is some room to expand, and there are some food resources. Greece is where you want to be.
Starting situation: **** You have a decent land, but there are some more opportunities. A quick war against Byzantium can give you a large boost. If you manage to conquer Constantinople early, the possibilities are endless.
Overall: 14

Cordoba: I'll have to play a game with the current version before I can get an opinion about them. Production is 4 stars I think, perhaps even 5 (they have one of the most productive lands with serfdom and farms).

I'll reserve post 1624 for the most actual ratings, and this post for my opinion. I'll include other people's opinions as well on the list.

 

[Wessel V1]

Actual ratings:

(Trade, production, culture, growth, starting situation)

Burgundy: 14
**
****
****
**
** / ***

Byzantium: 14
**
**
****
*
*****

France: 17
****
***
***
****
***

Arabia: 17
****
**
*****
**
****

Bulgaria: 14
**
***
**
***
****

More to come today..

 

[The Turk]

Hi, I was just wondering if I could test the beta version of this game? This mod is just SUCH a great idea, good work guys

 

[Panopticon]

The alpha version and patch are available here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=295451

 

[MizhGun]

Actually i like the idea, and we should implement Alaska as a colony. If u can tell us what Alaska provided Can't think of anything else then Fur

Gold, Oil, Deer, Crab and Fur of course

 

[3Miro]

Gold, Oil, Deer, Crab and Fur of course

Remember the mod is Medieval to very early Industrial age. While modern Alaska gives all of those, oil is not a resource for our mod. The question remains:

When did the King Crab industry began (wiki doesn't speak of it historically).

How much Deer was exported (it served as food to the locals, but did they export).

When was the gold first found (if the Russians knew about the gold there, would they have sold it away so cheaply in 1867).

 

[jessiecat]

Alaska comes far too late in our mod to be included. Only the Russian fur trade had any importance before 1800. The first gold rush happened near Hope, Alaska in 1896, followed by the famous, and much bigger Klondike Gold Rush in 1898 across the border in the Yukon. The King Crab fisheries only developed off Alaska in the 1970s after Pacific salmon stocks began to decline. And oil is irrelevent to our mod anyway, as you say.

 

[youtien]

Maybe we can add unique colonial projects for specfic civs, like: Siberia for Russia (Kievan and Moscowan). Add a "Siberia Access" resource.

Also, it seems weird that Arabia can't colonize East Africa at double rate. They have land access (and Red Sea) to east Africa, far quicker than Atlantic Sea.

 

[3Miro]

Maybe we can add unique colonial projects for specfic civs, like: Siberia for Russia (Kievan and Moscowan). Add a "Siberia Access" resource.

Also, it seems weird that Arabia can't colonize East Africa at double rate. They have land access (and Red Sea) to east Africa, far quicker than Atlantic Sea.

We can just add colonies that do not require AA.

 

[The Turk]

After playing your beta version, I came across a couple things which troubled me:

1. You guys definetly need a longer tech tree, or you need to make techs more expensive, or else within a while you go from the middle ages to the imperial age

2. PLEASE get unique leader heads, it looks so bad to have a weird looking Swedish leader!

3. You guys should (or should have) made africa and the middle east bigger because now the Arabian uhv is SUPER easy (in fact most of the UHV's are easy to get)

4. Try to get culturally unique looking units or because I hate seeing a European looking Arab maceman

But I know you guys are still in your beta version time, and you guys can still change things, so i'm not worried. By the way don't think I think this mod is bad, I 've just labeled things you could do better, but believe me you guys have done an AMAZING JOB and i know it must of taken a lot of time and skilled effort to get this far, good job guys!

 

[3Miro]

After playing your beta version, I came across a couple things which troubled me:

1. You guys definetly need a longer tech tree, or you need to make techs more expensive, or else within a while you go from the middle ages to the imperial age

2. PLEASE get unique leader heads, it looks so bad to have a weird looking Swedish leader!

3. You guys should (or should have) made africa and the middle east bigger because now the Arabian uhv is SUPER easy (in fact most of the UHV's are easy to get)

4. Try to get culturally unique looking units or because I hate seeing a European looking Arab maceman

But I know you guys are still in your beta version time, and you guys can still change things, so i'm not worried. By the way don't think I think this mod is bad, I 've just labeled things you could do better, but believe me you guys have done an AMAZING JOB and i know it must of taken a lot of time and skilled effort to get this far, good job guys!

Wow you got the beta, did you ravel back in time to tell us? We only have a alpha version.

1. The tech rate will probably we slowed down, we just have to find the right balance so that it doesn't make things impossible.

2. We are trying, we just got a new Pope. If you know of any good leaderheads that we can use, please post then and we will include those.

3. The Arabian control is not hard, spreading the Islam should be the hard UHV for them. I will play a game to see how it works.

4. Again we are trying, however, we need graphics files on someone with artistic inclinations.

Thanks for the comments.

 

[jessiecat]

Wow you got the beta, did you ravel back in time to tell us? We only have a alpha version.

1. The tech rate will probably we slowed down, we just have to find the right balance so that it doesn't make things impossible.

2. We are trying, we just got a new Pope. If you know of any good leaderheads that we can use, please post then and we will include those.

3. The Arabian control is not hard, spreading the Islam should be the hard UHV for them. I will play a game to see how it works.

4. Again we are trying, however, we need graphics files on someone with artistic inclinations.

Thanks for the comments.

There are several possible leaderheads in the database. I'll look for them now and post them in the art thread. Again with the culturally specific graphics, I've already posted some files for the Arabian and Cordoban units in the Military Design thread (post 58). It should be relatively simply to substitute some of those for the existing units, shouldn't it?

 

[3Miro]

There are several possible leaderheads in the database. I'll look for them now and post them in the art thread. Again with the culturally specific graphics, I've already post some files for the Arabian and Cordoban units in the Military Design thread (post 58). It should be relatively simply to substitute some of those for the existing units, shouldn't it?

I don't know. I will see.

 

[merijn_v1]

Maybe we can add unique colonial projects for specfic civs, like: Siberia for Russia (Kievan and Moscowan). Add a "Siberia Access" resource.

Also, it seems weird that Arabia can't colonize East Africa at double rate. They have land access (and Red Sea) to east Africa, far quicker than Atlantic Sea.

What does that improve? Siberia isn't the best place to be. It's cold and the only resource it could provide is Fur. I would include it.
And if you meant it for a new UHV for the Moscowian, I think just 1 "colony" isn't good enough.

 

[Samsa]

I'm right now playing a Moscowan game and wan't to point some things out even some already mentioned ones

First the starting situation is weird, there are many cities flipping and u got 3 settlers. But u only receiving 3 workers wich will need till the end of game to set up a infrastructure.
Either some flipping cities are removed or an simple infrastructure is set up already or some more workers.
Actually I'm not sure and i got not much knowledge about Moscowian history, but i bet they didn't had instantly a big area like this. So to cover that historic part we should reduce the amount of flipping cities. Also there should be 1 worker for every city at startup even for the flipping ones.
Building up 1 worker in every city right after start helps u to build up a small infrastructure and claim the resources pretty fast (free labour is a big help there). But technology-wise I'm far behind and unsure if it's possible to catch up.

Second point, the first UHV (the "loose no city to barbs till 1500") is just ridiculous, although i saw some barbs it was vice versa. I captured three barb cities and of course checked that UHV. If I hadn't scouted I never saw one single barbarian. This UHV must be reworked and since I have no clue about the Russian history I stay clueless about this :/

Controling 12 cities is easy as the first UHV, after capturing the three barb/indipendence cities (Astrakhan, Minsk and Riga) u've done. There is imho no way u can loose them again, if ur not running into a war with every neighbour

Since the game is about 1450 right now the last two UHVs are untouched, but the culture one looks pretty hard, wich I'm looking forward to

 

[3Miro]

I'm right now playing a Moscowan game and wan't to point some things out even some already mentioned ones

First the starting situation is weird, there are many cities flipping and u got 3 settlers. But u only receiving 3 workers wich will need till the end of game to set up a infrastructure.
Either some flipping cities are removed or an simple infrastructure is set up already or some more workers.
Actually I'm not sure and i got not much knowledge about Moscowian history, but i bet they didn't had instantly a big area like this. So to cover that historic part we should reduce the amount of flipping cities. Also there should be 1 worker for every city at startup even for the flipping ones.
Building up 1 worker in every city right after start helps u to build up a small infrastructure and claim the resources pretty fast (free labour is a big help there). But technology-wise I'm far behind and unsure if it's possible to catch up.

Second point, the first UHV (the "loose no city to barbs till 1500") is just ridiculous, although i saw some barbs it was vice versa. I captured three barb cities and of course checked that UHV. If I hadn't scouted I never saw one single barbarian. This UHV must be reworked and since I have no clue about the Russian history I stay clueless about this :/

Controling 12 cities is easy as the first UHV, after capturing the three barb/indipendence cities (Astrakhan, Minsk and Riga) u've done. There is imho no way u can loose them again, if ur not running into a war with every neighbour

Since the game is about 1450 right now the last two UHVs are untouched, but the culture one looks pretty hard, wich I'm looking forward to

Later on today I hope to release the second alpha version. Moscow and Kiev have seen MANY changes.

 

[Michael Vick]

Hola everybody, I've been gone on an Empire: Total War binge. (Theyve got some really nice art we could use for the muslim units) Also, I've come with this really crazy and amazing idea for diplomacy which I'll share right after I get this issue cleared up. When the terrain was changed for central Spain, Sedna used the wrong set of screenshots. I left some plains above Madrid in some...
To clarify: the tile directly to the left of Madrid should be raised to a hill. The tile directly above and to the Northeast must be changed to hills and have light forests added. My bad

 

[3Miro]

Hola everybody, I've been gone on an Empire: Total War binge. (Theyve got some really nice art we could use for the muslim units) Also, I've come with this really crazy and amazing idea for diplomacy which I'll share right after I get this issue cleared up. When the terrain was changed for central Spain, Sedna used the wrong set of screenshots. I left some plains above Madrid in some...
To clarify: the tile directly to the left of Madrid should be raised to a hill. The tile directly above and to the Northeast must be changed to hills and have light forests added. My bad

I got one directly to the left and for the second one, I cannot understand where it is. (you don't mean to put forest on top of a desert hill, right?)

Can you post a corrected screenshot, indicate Madrid and the tiles you want changed and what you want to change them to via pop-up markers.