Rhye's of Europe Civ Discussion Thread

[The Turk]

Where did you guys put the thread for the download of Rhyes Europe?

 

[BurnEmDown]

RFC Europe Files.

 

[3Miro]

We should make it so that Portugal can defend against Spain and Cordoba, but conquering them should be incredibly difficult. My opinion of course.

 

[Michael Vick]

Portugal's spawn zone should be smaller. Anything two tiles South of Lisbon should be cut off, remember, Portugal had a reconquista of their own. I realized this after spawning as Portugal and getting the Cordoban city of Lagos in the 1100's, inaccurate.

BTW, I'm loading Moscow and I see a message on the top of the screen, "The Papal Civilization has been destroyed!!!" Can't wait to see what that's all about...

 

[3Miro]

Do you have details on that one. Why was it destroyed. Is Rome still there, was it razed or something ...

 

[Michael Vick]

It's just the ruins. No idea what could have happened...

What do you think of the Portugal thing?

 

[3Miro]

It's just the ruins. No idea what could have happened...

What do you think of the Portugal thing?

Alpha 2 still has the bug where the Pope can declare a war. If the Pope has lost a war, then Rome could be razed. If Roma was still there as independent or something, then tat left the possibility for stability collapse and would have require more work. (I don' think single city civilization can decent into civil wars, but I have to double check)

I have no objections to Portugal spawn being decreased. That would give them even less land in Europe and encourage them to settle else where.

 

[Michael Vick]

Perfect, in the next version then?

 

[3Miro]

I am updating the UHVs and only three remained somewhat up the air:

Hungary - don't lose a city to Barbs, that means couple of Keshiks, it is not very hard. The Turkish AI doesn't stand a snowflake chance in hell of reaching Hungary (the best we can hope to do is Constantinople and part of Bulgaria). So the Hungarian UHV should be something else. What do you people think about conquer/raze 3 Turkish cities, or eliminate Turkey.

Portugal: 1. Build 6 Catholic Monasteries (implies colonization of Azores and/or Africa)
2. Never lose a city before 1640AD
3. Build 3 Colonial Porjects

Spain: 1. Unite Iberia under Catholicism (Conquer/Vassalize and leave no other religion).
2. ?????
3. Build 3 colonial projects.

 

[jessiecat]

I am updating the UHVs and only three remained somewhat up the air:

Hungary - don't lose a city to Barbs, that means couple of Keshiks, it is not very hard. The Turkish AI doesn't stand a snowflake chance in hell of reaching Hungary (the best we can hope to do is Constantinople and part of Bulgaria). So the Hungarian UHV should be something else. What do you people think about conquer/raze 3 Turkish cities, or eliminate Turkey.

Portugal: 1. Build 6 Catholic Monasteries (implies colonization of Azores and/or Africa)
2. Never lose a city before 1640AD
3. Build 3 Colonial Porjects

Spain: 1. Unite Iberia under Catholicism (Conquer/Vassalize and leave no other religion).
2. ?????
3. Build 3 colonial projects.

How about;

Hungary No Ottoman cities in the Balkans by x date? They'd could be forced to
prevent Ottoman expansion west of Constantinople.

Portugal 1. OK (or specify 2 in N.Africa and 4 islands)

Spain 2. Control 4 cities in Italy and N. Africa (including islands. eg Sardinia, Sicily etc.) putting them in competition with Genoa.

 

[Michael Vick]

Hungary- I say give the Ottomans another settler, and more knights/bombards, make them despise the Christians more.
Portugal- I'd rather directly imply the settling of the islands but this is fine, we could give it a try, see if it works.
Spain- 1. fine
2. Ensure that Protestantism spreads to no more than __%/ Conquer Sardinia, Sicily, Naples, and Milan (no time indicated, you get until the end of the mod to do it)/squat the Netherlands
3. Have more colonial projects than the English, French, and Dutch in 1600

 

[3Miro]

Hungary- I say give the Ottomans another settler, and more knights/bombards, make them despise the Christians more.
Portugal- I'd rather directly imply the settling of the islands but this is fine, we could give it a try, see if it works.
Spain- 1. fine
2. Ensure that Protestantism spreads to no more than __%/ Conquer Sardinia, Sicily, Naples, and Milan (no time indicated, you get until the end of the mod to do it)/squat the Netherlands
3. Have more colonial projects than the English, French, and Dutch in 1600

Hungary - no way the AI can directly pose a treat to Hungary, we should go with no Turkish cities in Europe. (Vladislaus III of Varna)

Portugal - OK lets go with 2 cities in Africa and one on the Azores.

Spain - There is no real way to block protestantism other than total war (and if France remains Catholic, that means going through France to real Germany and beyond). I would go with the Islands, I am just not sure about Milan. It practically means conquest of Genoa. Maybe substitute Milan with 1 or 2 cities in N Africa. (the rest is OK)

 

[Michael Vick]

Hungary - Good Idea

Portugal - AHEM, (Madeiras )

Spain - Well I liked the Milan idea because although conflict with Genoa is ahistorical, Genoa did become a vassal. But ok, and I suggest the strip of land between Tangier and Melilla. If this appears to be too easy there's always the Netherlands

 

[Wessel V1]

To be honest, I think the third and the second goal are very easy, things you'd do anyway if you want to play a comfortable game. Maybe we should change the first goal into: build at least a city on X different "islands". IIRC, there are some islands SW of Lisboa, Ireland is probably still unsettled or empty enough, maybe there is some more space in Brittain, Sicily of course, and so on. So, would it be reasonable to ask them to settle at least 8 cities on different islands? (The code could be transferred from RAND of course)

I've never liked the goal of never losing a city since I've been playing RFC. It's not necessarily boring, but if you lose a city, you already know for quite some time that you've messed up. I can understand why certain civs can have these goals, Byzantium for example might be one of them that could be challenging, but overall there is no major accomplishment needed, since it requires a passive playing style. I don't know if I'm asking something unreasonable now, since I haven't done so many games as Portugal, but we could give them a goal like: ensure there is no Cordoban or Spanish culture in this area (which could be the spawn area). That could require the player to totally destroy both civs, or at least make sure that their culture simply never gets into the area. (On the flip, there is AFAIK always some culture of the previous civilization that doesn't disappear. So, it will never disappear unless Spain and Cordoba are destroyed. In that case, we could alter the goal to have at least 90% culture in the required area, or whatever is reasonable. I'm not sure whether it's possible to remove culture with espionage, but it would be fun if it is)

The third goal is very reasonable I think. Let's go with that.

 

[3Miro]

To be honest, I think the third and the second goal are very easy, things you'd do anyway if you want to play a comfortable game. Maybe we should change the first goal into: build at least a city on X different "islands". IIRC, there are some islands SW of Lisboa, Ireland is probably still unsettled or empty enough, maybe there is some more space in Brittain, Sicily of course, and so on. So, would it be reasonable to ask them to settle at least 8 cities on different islands? (The code could be transferred from RAND of course)

I've never liked the goal of never losing a city since I've been playing RFC. It's not necessarily boring, but if you lose a city, you already know for quite some time that you've messed up. I can understand why certain civs can have these goals, Byzantium for example might be one of them that could be challenging, but overall there is no major accomplishment needed, since it requires a passive playing style. I don't know if I'm asking something unreasonable now, since I haven't done so many games as Portugal, but we could give them a goal like: ensure there is no Cordoban or Spanish culture in this area (which could be the spawn area). That could require the player to totally destroy both civs, or at least make sure that their culture simply never gets into the area. (On the flip, there is AFAIK always some culture of the previous civilization that doesn't disappear. So, it will never disappear unless Spain and Cordoba are destroyed. In that case, we could alter the goal to have at least 90% culture in the required area, or whatever is reasonable. I'm not sure whether it's possible to remove culture with espionage, but it would be fun if it is)

The third goal is very reasonable I think. Let's go with that.

You can ask that Portugal has X amount of culture combined in all of their cities (by year Y), however, there is no way to block Spanish or Cordoban culture from coming into the Portuguese core. The way plot culture is computed is completely different from city culture, comparing plot cultures is meaningless IMO.

OK, I forgot about the Madeiras, one city there as well.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Any chance of borrowing the Legion system from ROTK 2.1? I love to get a reusuable great general like Khalid ibn al-Walid, Belisarius, El Cid, all the way to Napoleon and Wellington.

 

[Wessel V1]

That is not totally true, at least not without RFC rules. In RFRE, which uses the Revolution mod, there was a button combination (I forgot which, but I remember it was excellent) that allowed the player to see the plot information very detailed. For example, Brennus had 8 culture in plot XY, and the Roman leader had 56 culture in plot XY, so Brennus had 12% culture and the Roman leader had 87% culture. I don't know how these results are calculated exactly (probably it has something to do with the cultures spheres, and the culture is divided equally on all plots with the same distance, but to be sure I have to check it once again). In RFC this could be different but I guess not. So, it is possible and not very hard to actively reduce the culture in a plot. It takes some time though, so it's a dangerous one.

Even then, it might indeed be unnecessarily complicated. There is indeed no way to block foreign culture from you cities apart from just total destruction, however, it is possible to just own the plot, which is not very hard to do but when it's outside the core territory (not very much of course, but I think the next spawn area will be smaller than the current Portuguese borders), the player has to take some action to get it.

 

[3Miro]

The culture that every plot gets is not the culture given by the city. There is some additional culture that has to do with the cultural level of the city. Also, several cities can influence the same tile and since Portugal has fewer cities, they are at a disadvantage. Furthermore, there are cultural modifiers both for how much culture is produced and how much culture get into a players core territory. The core territory is better culturally defended. So it is very complicated. If you want, you can make Portugal amass x culture, how about that.

 

[Wessel V1]

That's also fine. I don't know if there are historical objections to that, but it's no problem to me.

 

[3Miro]

I could not remember if there was a dedicated tread so I am including some Great People comments here.

1. Removed Ivan IV as great general, he is now the leader of Russia.
2. I saw Ivan Asen in the list. This is somewhat confusing fact: there is Asen I who was a good general (Byzantine soldiers still feared him and would not attack Bulgaria after he was assassinated). There is Ivan Asen II (Asen I's son) who was a great diplomat, but not a general at all. Anyway, I replaced Ivan Asen with Krum and Kaloyan, both are more appropriate.
3. Added Khan Telerig as a great spy, unlike Ivanko he had a positive effect for Bulgaria (Ivanko was Bulgarian, but should count as Byzantine Great Spy).
4. Added St Kliment as Great Scientist and St Kiril as Great Prophet. Together with St Naum and St Medtdius those four defined the European culture east of Hungary and north of Constantinople.