Richard Sherman - Thug?

Bulldog Bats, don't you find it weird that the examples your subconscious feels are similar are in fact totally different? 4 of your 6 examples are of violence.

Touchdown dancing is of course about as far from thuggishness as football behavior gets, but it's interesting to me that the tradition was started and popularized by black athletes and finds its most vocal critics among white folk.

That doesn't mean racism, but what it means is that the moment non racist folk find reason to criticize something a black person does, racist folk are gonna come pouring out of the woodwork, using it as a moment to:

1) express their bottled up racism
2) find one another
3) affirm to themselves their existing worldview

---> 4) use that moment to invade non-racist space and claim it for their own.

What the heck do I mean by that?

White folk hate being accused of racism. Racist white folk hate it even more, especially when it comes from other white folk. Aside from not wanting federal soldiers enforcing civil rights (reconstruction, desegregation), there's the issue of shame. It's shameful to be racist and shame is one of the worst feelings to experience.

Racists are very shame oriented folk to boot--shaming is the second arm of racism (the first arm is violence). They will do everything they can to absolve themselves of their shame of being racists, short of changing.

So anytime something like this comes up, a black guy who demonstrated something not-very-tasteful, they pile on the criticism, adding in as much racism as they think general public can handle.

It's mostly subconscious, especially with the younger ones.

But in our days we don't tolerate public racism the way we used to, so they pick a word, a word like thug. Why thug?

Because it reinforces whatever gut level reactions help perpetuate racism. Thug has a cultural and style connotation that itself is informed by a behavior set. For the word thug, it specifically means a violent identity.

So you take a person who acts a certain way. That way projects an image. You link that image to a different image by using a word that evokes a negative response. Since you already have a negative response to the behavior, it flies under the radar. Then you associate that person with their image and behavior with a word that carries a different image and behavior. That word also carries an identity, which links back to the original identity.

Have the same group of racist people use the same word (thug) to describe people who all belong to the same identity (say, being black) and eventually like a virus even people who abhor racism subconsciously find themselves making that same connection. Even people of that very group being attacked by racists!


So we have two things going on in that #4 I wrote above.
1) The spread of racist memes to reinforce racism itself by exploiting situations like these.
2) Trying to end personal shame and the shame of being racist by being as racist as tolerable (i.e. as judged by white male liberals in the same sector, i.e. sports fans) to show how it wasn't racist. It's a losing battle.


So basically any time you find a black athlete's action unsportsmanlike for non race related reasons, understand that a whole bunch of other people are going to try to take advantage of that.

The craftier ones make sure that after they've baited folks into calling them out (which they promptly get all huffy and proclaim "race card!") that they try to seem just like you and me. Bad sportsmanship, they say, because he's being a thug. They are parasites to your rationale.

Next thing you know you don't agree with their slander (thug) and yet you still feel compelled to defend them....
 
I saw Sherman's interviews live and the first words that come to my mind were "arrogant", "jerk", and "egotistical". Thug, to me, is somebody who intentionally breaks the law because they like it. Usually there is some sort of violence involved. Race doesn't really seem like a factor.

After thinking about it though, what he said isn't that different from trash talk, which I would assume is quite common in professional sports. Anytime you get a bunch of hyper-competitive people playing for money and fame, trash talk is going to follow. The only difference is that Sherman did it in front of a microphone rather than on a field.

Sherman had what, a 3.8 GPA from STANFORD? Not a thug.
How you act is what makes you a thug or not. Not your alma mater or gpa.
 
No, for making everything about him and talking trash about the other players. I think he was acting immature and like a punk.
Huh? Isn't that contradictory? How can he be "making everything about him" while simultaneously only talking about other players? What does "making everything about him" even mean in this context?

And frankly, I don't think he was congratulating Crabtree - I think he was rubbing the loss in his face. Crabtree never should have shoved him - he should have just walked away.
I dunno, seemed pretty genuine to me. If anyone was being a punk, it was Crabtree, but even then I wouldn't say so.

You have two supremely talented, super-competitive people. One of them wins the game with a great play, and gets fired up about it, while the other is frustrated and dejected. The winner, fired up and excited, congratulates the loser and essentially says "good game." The loser, frustrated and dejected, understandably does not feel like reciprocating the congratulations, and angrily shoves the winner out of his way. This upsets and insults the (still fired up) winner, who feels as if he was slighted for giving the loser a sincere complement, and voices this when someone shoves a microphone in his face shortly after.

Neither player is at fault, both acted understandably, and neither player is "immature" or a "punk" for acting in such a way in the heat of the moment after such a momentous play.

After thinking about it though, what he said isn't that different from trash talk, which I would assume is quite common in professional sports. Anytime you get a bunch of hyper-competitive people playing for money and fame, trash talk is going to follow. The only difference is that Sherman did it in front of a microphone rather than on a field.
Yep, pretty much.
 
It might not make him a thug per the strict meaning of the word, but for people who had never heard of him before, its not unreasonable to perceive him as one (or a dick, jerk, or some other similar description) based on that interview alone.

No one watched that interview and thought, "Wow, what a respectful, humble, and decent sportsman, that Sherman." Even people who did know his record probably thought he was acting like an idiot. He has even apologized for his behavior, knowing it was over the top.

But now the race card has been played, and people come out of the wood works to defend him. Get real people, he was out of line, period. Race is not a factor.
 
It might not make him a thug per the strict meaning of the word, but for people who had never heard of him before, its not unreasonable to perceive him as one (or a dick, jerk, or some other similar description) based on that interview alone.

No one watched that interview and thought, "Wow, what a respectful, humble, and decent sportsman, that Sherman." Even people who did know his record probably thought he was acting like an idiot. He has even apologized for his behavior, knowing it was over the top.

But now the race card has been played, and people come out of the wood works to defend him. Get real people, he was out of line, period. Race is not a factor.
To be clear, if you I shoved you in the face and you got mad at me about it, you would be a "dick" or "thug" in this situation?
 
Zimmerman falsely stereotyped Martin as being a criminal long before lying about being "attacked" by him.

But Zimmerman was right, he thought Martin was a suspicious character and Martin ran and then attacked him. We have confirmation, Houston! And "thug" was the term JR used for his threads, Zimmerman called him an ahole and punk after Martin ran. Zimmerman didn't call him a thug, somebody aint been telling the truth. Gee, must be liars doin that, huh?

Some think Zimmerman said "thug". Take your pick.

I'll let logic make my pick - neighborhood watch volunteer sees teen run and calls him a name

A) Thug
B) Punk

Running away is punkish behavior, not thuggish.

And he was definitely portrayed as a "thug" afterwards by the usual suspects.

Imagine that, the kid attacks a neighborhood watch volunteer and people have the audacity to portray him as a thug who got killed attacking a neighborhood watch volunteer. Zimmerman didn't call him a thug, dont call him a liar any more. You've spent a couple years spouting falsehoods about him and you've never shown him to be a liar, not once.

I know Martin wasn't standing in the rain. He was merely standing OUT of the rain while black, as I stated above. Zimmerman claimed there was "something wrong with him" before he did anything even remotely suspicious, and despite Zimmerman's lies to the contrary.

Read Zimmerman's 911 transcript. Martin did anything but stand out of the rain. How do you judge him a liar when you dont tell the truth? Start your own thread, I'd love to see your evidence he lied.

not really
 
It is far more interesting that the other player is called Crabtree. Sort of a cool name, i suppose. As an item in a horror story it could have been called worse.

But the thug-gangsta-childish behavior of the other player is still a non-story, blown up due to the usual reasons. Why pay attention to the collapse of the country when you can talk about racism.
 
It is far more interesting that the other player is called Crabtree. Sort of a cool name, i suppose. As an item in a horror story it could have been called worse.

But the thug-gangsta-childish behavior of the other player is still a non-story, blown up due to the usual reasons. Why pay attention to the collapse of the country when you can talk about racism.
Oh, I dunno, because racism is real and serious and talk of the country collapsing is not real and therefore not serious?
 
Oh, I dunno, because racism is real and serious and talk of the country collapsing is not real and therefore not serious?

Excellent.

5x13_eagle_USA_ltrt.jpg
 
At any moment we're going to simultaneously have hyper inflation and run out of dollars.

(That's when right wing militias will detonate a propane bomb the size of Enola Gay and flood the Sacramento Valley. Blackwater will stage a coup and Texas will secede, and upon realizing that that is to the collective relief of the other 49 states, will promptly invade Oklahoma).
 
Guys - my point is that he was acting unprofessional, immature, and a jerk. I forgot the coach who use to say "act like you have been there before". I have a son in sports, and I always tell him to act in a classy manner, win or lose. When he acts immature, win or lose, I immediately speak to him.

The fact that Sherman is black has nothing to do with it. The fact that Sherman is not dressed like a white collar executive has nothing to do with it.

I do think thug was the wrong work, and I think SOME of people who used the word were acting in a racist manner. I believe there are some people who use "thug" as a racial code word. There are racists out there, and there are people who make assumptions based on how someone looks.

I do civil rights law for a living, and deal with racism, sexism, and the like on a daily basis. I just think that assuming that everyone who has problems with Richard Sherman is a racist is also wrong. The fact that some people misuse thug, or any other word, does not make them a racist. NEITHER side should make knee-jerk determinations.

I don't like Michael Vick - not because he is black, or dresses in the way he does, but because he tortured dogs. I didn't like Mark Gastineau, not becase he was white, but because he acted like a jerk/punk on the field.
 
Gastineau usually got the lunch pail treatment reserved for white guys. I bet if you reviewed tape on the game announcers you would hear a lot about how he was passionate about the game, hard working, smart, the kind of guy that you expect to carry around a lunch pail. Not one on those physically gifted players that got by on instinct.
 
Some did, but most did not - other than Jet fans, people did not like it. I never said there wasn't, and isn't a double standard. But again, stop assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is a racist.

If Peyton Manning acted like Sherman, I would call him a punk as well.
 
Guys - my point is that he was acting unprofessional, immature, and a jerk. I forgot the coach who use to say "act like you have been there before". I have a son in sports, and I always tell him to act in a classy manner, win or lose. When he acts immature, win or lose, I immediately speak to him.

The fact that Sherman is black has nothing to do with it. The fact that Sherman is not dressed like a white collar executive has nothing to do with it.

I do think thug was the wrong work, and I think SOME of people who used the word were acting in a racist manner. I believe there are some people who use "thug" as a racial code word. There are racists out there, and there are people who make assumptions based on how someone looks.

I do civil rights law for a living, and deal with racism, sexism, and the like on a daily basis. I just think that assuming that everyone who has problems with Richard Sherman is a racist is also wrong. The fact that some people misuse thug, or any other word, does not make them a racist. NEITHER side should make knee-jerk determinations.

I don't like Michael Vick - not because he is black, or dresses in the way he does, but because he tortured dogs. I didn't like Mark Gastineau, not becase he was white, but because he acted like a jerk/punk on the field.
How come you're not saying anything about Crabtree? Why are you focusing on Sherman?
 
If you read my posts from yesterday, I have already said that my problem was not what he did on the field, but in the interviews afterwards. I also already said Crabtree was stupid, and should have walked away. If all there was was the on-field altercation, this would have have been an issue. It was how he acted afterward that made it one.
 
My point is that physical violence is worse than yelling, yet somehow Sherman is the immature thug.
 
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